Can Pakistan produce/acquire these kinds of subs?

[DroneAcharya]

^^^ The reactor was an indigenous Indian design....enough said.

i will read the links you posted in detail,and reply later...

You may want to refer to this article too The Indian SSN Project: An Open Literature Analysis ; read up especially on the Nuclear powerplant design portion. Even if Pakistan has to get these "off-the-shelf" miniature reactors, integrating it into into the indigenously built hull as pointed out by @arp2041 is the challenge here, which might take longer than you can expect (an optimistic figure is a decade from now).

 

[Hyperion]

@arp2041, have you read the articles you posted as reference, don't have much time to get into the nitty gritty of things, short of the label "complete ToT", it has mentioned everything else!.

By the way just for your info, work on a "test" PWR reactor was started back in 2001, there were several problems initially with the feed rods etc, most of which were sorted out in about 2009. Just for your info, we also went your way of "consultancy" by foreign experts.


Note: The reactor was never being designed by PN. Hint, same people who designed the indigenous "Khushab" PHWR, along with others from PAEC & PINSTECH laid the foundation. The miniaturization work was done by.... let's not get into those right now.

 

[arp2041]

@arp2041, have you read the articles you posted as reference, don't have much time to get into the nitty gritty of things, short of the label "complete ToT", it has mentioned everything else!.

By the way just for your info, work on a "test" PWR reactor was started back in 2001, there were several problems initially with the feed rods etc, most of which were sorted out in about 2009. Just for your info, we also went your way of "consultancy" by foreign experts.


Note: The reactor was never being designed by PN. Hint, same people who designed the indigenous "Khushab" PHWR, along with others from PAEC & PINSTECH laid the foundation. The miniaturization work was done by.... let's not get into those right now.

No bro, i didn't read it completely but enough to cite it as ref. to my point which was about the most complex part of nuclear sub cons. - Integration of the reactor to the hull. The hull & the PWR were both made in India but i admit that the designs were Russian.

+ u know India itself is facing troubles in the cons. of INS Arihant even when many nations are ready to help - Russia, France & Israel. So it will take a little more than the "All Weather Friend's" help for Pakistan, plus huge investment & atleast a decade more when PN can actually threaten India with submerged nukes.

 

[Penguin]

AFAIK no Augusta was ever made from sratch in Pak, France always provided important components, however if u have some source to back ur claim then i'll definitely appriciate...

That said Qing Class aka Type095 is a SSGN n it does not carry BMs so again source of ur claim will be appriciated...

The first, Khalid (S137), was built at DCN’s Cherbourg yard and was commissioned in 1999. The second, Saad, assembled at Karachi Naval Dockyard, was launched in August 2002 and was commissioned in December 2003. The third, Hamza, was constructed and assembled in Karachi, launched in August 2006 and commissioned in September 2008.
...
Pakistan has been given a license by DCNS to offer commercial production of the submarines to potential customers.

SSK Agosta 90B Class Submarine - Naval Technology

There has been progressively greater involvement in construction by Pakistan. The license suggest Pakistan can independently build more. However, if so, why attempt to obtain e.g. German or Chinese subs? So, my guess is that Pakistan can independently do business but that DCNS would be involved in producing components and/or vital subssystems (i.e. export by Pakistan would also be good for France). There certainly was (agreement on) transfer of technology.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNS_Hamza_(S139)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agosta_class_submarine

 

[Hyperion]

Wise guy, read some sane comments, assessment and reasoning from your fellow country mates.

Read about your indigenous development here.... INS Arihant SSBN - IDP Sentinel

Same goes for EVERY technology demonstrator that your country has magically conjured up to this date. I can shred all the "indigenous technical breakthroughs" to smithereens. Be careful with your big mouth.

To the point, this is not a pissing or a **** measuring contest, where you win due to half patch implant. Stay sane and focussed on topic.

Pakistan doesn't have the technical knowhow, industrial infrastructure or the economy to build or operate a nuclear powered submarine.
Pakistan has never designed and built a civilain nuclear reactor for even power generation, let alone a miniature nuclear reactor for a submarine.
A nuclear submarine is at least 5000tons displacement. Pakistan has never even a built a surface naval vessel of this displacement, let alone a submarine. Even the 1500tons Augusta Subs are only assembled in Pakistan.
Even operating a single nuclear powered sub will be more expensive than the PN's annual budget.
Just because Pakistan acquired the nuclear weapon and missile technology, they think that they can build a nuke sub. Even North Korea and Iran have nuke weapon and missile technology. Pakistan's stole the uranium technology from Urinco and got the nuke warhead designs from China. Pakistan's achievement was the set-up of the blackmarket to acquire the parts needed to assemble nuclear weapons. But, building a nuclear powered submarine is a different ballgame.

 

[A1Kaid]

Pakistan should absolutely pursue an indigenous powered nuclear submarine, a nation should never remain stagnant constant new challenges should always be pursued.

 

[kurup]

No bro, i didn't read it completely but enough to cite it as ref. to my point which was about the most complex part of nuclear sub cons. - Integration of the reactor to the hull. The hull & the PWR were both made in India but i admit that the designs were Russian.

+ u know India itself is facing troubles in the cons. of INS Arihant even when many nations are ready to help - Russia, France & Israel. So it will take a little more than the "All Weather Friend's" help for Pakistan, plus huge investment & atleast a decade more when PN can actually threaten India with submerged nukes.

Can you tell me which Russian naval reactor design was used to develope reactor for arihant ???

 

[arp2041]

Can you tell me which Russian naval reactor design was used to develope reactor for arihant ???

can't say about the reactor but the Arihant as such is of Akula-I design, plus we didn't had the tech. to develop PWRs for the sub earlier, there "MAYBE" Russian scientific help for it.

If u want to read further about INS Arihant, this is a good read (link given by @DroneAcharya):

The Indian Strategic Nuclear Submarine Project An Open Literature Analysis

 

[Safriz]

Can you tell me which Russian naval reactor design was used to develope reactor for arihant ???

None..

thats why it failed...

 

[kurup]

can't say about the reactor but the Arihant as such is of Akula-I design, plus we didn't had the tech. to develop PWRs for the sub earlier, there "MAYBE" Russian scientific help for it.

Surely there was russian help and PM gave special reference to this in his speech during subs induction .

AFAIK , Akula is a double hulled sub with a disp. of 12000 ton while Arihant is single hulled with 6000 ton displacement .

So there will be no similarity .

If u want to read further about INS Arihant, this is a good read (link given by @DroneAcharya):

The Indian Strategic Nuclear Submarine Project An Open Literature Analysis

Will surely give a read.

None..

thats why it failed...

The reactor produces 82 MW of power . In our first attempt that is a pretty much good figure.

Compare that to first gen chinese subs which were powered by 58 MW reactor.

 

[arp2041]

@octopus i wanted to cite a para from the link i provided in the earlier post:

the water-cooled water-moderated reactor (PWR) was designed by BARC and is believed based on Soviet design information obtained form the leased submarine. Some information is known about Soviet reactor design.

According to the article, Russia provided designs of it's nuke subs minus that of reactor, as it would had been a violation of NPT, thus we cannot get a credible source for Russian help in the reactor design as if proven this will be violation of International laws.

None..

thats why it failed...

This is the second post of urs in this thread where u don't have any idea as to what u r saying.

 

[kurup]

@octopus i wanted to cite a para from the link i provided in the earlier post:



According to the article, Russia provided designs of it's nuke subs minus that of reactor, as it would had been a violation of NPT, thus we cannot get a credible source for Russian help in the reactor design as if proven this will be violation of International laws.

Russia has been an adherent follower of international treaties .

The information you gave + their reluctancy to sell us the cryogenic engine back will testify for that .

So there is no way that this reactor is russian by orgin .

Russain help will most probably be limited to consultancy and assistance in integrating the raector with sub.

 

[Safriz]

This is the second post of urs in this thread where u don't have any idea as to what u r saying.

Nop..i have an idea of what i am saying...
You lot have peeved me enough in this thread to embark on a full fledged fact finding mission on INS Arihant..
Wait for a week or so,and a new thread will emerge on Arihant...

 

[arp2041]

Nop..i have an idea of what i am saying...
You lot have peeved me enough in this thread to embark on a full fledged fact finding mission on INS Arihant..
Wait for a week or so,and a new thread will emerge on Arihant...

I just brought Arihant into the discussion to bring analogy as to how difficult it is to build a nuke sub.

BTW i will be waiting for that thread, but why take more than a week, u are a JTT for god-sake, u can do better than that

 

[Safriz]

I just brought Arihant into the discussion to bring analogy as to how difficult it is to build a nuke sub.

BTW i will be waiting for that thread, but why take more than a week, u are a JTT for god-sake, u can do better than that

you little &*^&^*&^*(&^*&