Can Pakistan produce/acquire these kinds of subs?

[Safriz]

This article says that Tomahawk Land attack missile was fired from 21 inch tube....Later changed to dimensions you mention here..
May be Pakistan is sticking to the basics..
Larger diameter tube allows Quieter,swim out, launch,but still a 21 inch tube can launch a Tomahawk...albeit in a noisy way..

 

[Penguin]

This article says that Tomahawk Land attack missile was fired from 21 inch tube....Later changed to dimensions you mention here..
May be Pakistan is sticking to the basics..
Larger diameter tube allows Quieter,swim out, launch,but still a 21 inch tube can launch a Tomahawk...albeit in a noisy way..

I think you are mixing up launching a torpedo and launching a missile under water here. The large tubes allow TORPEDOES to swim out quietly (as opposed to being shot out by compressed air). Either way, in an underwater launch of a missile (whether Tomahawk or e.g. Harpoon or Exocet), the missile is encapsulated. It does not have the same underwater propulsion ... it can't 'swim out' and is ejected by other means. The missile fires and leaves the capsule once it breaks the surface (see small pic).

UGM-84 Harpoon: They are launched from a 533mm torpedo tube and float to the surface in a special canister. Once the canister breaks the surface the top cover is removed and the booster section that is also used on the surface launched model is fired.
http://weaponsystems.net/weapon.php?weapon=HH10+-+Harpoon

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ea-based-nuclear-deterrent-5.html#post2967561

http://svsm.org/gallery/harpooncontainer

UGM-109

In an UGM-109 underwater launch, the missile remains enclosed in its transport canister until it has cleared the torpedo tube. The canister is then ejected, and the booster ignites to propel the missile to the surface. After it is fully airborne, some protective covers are jettisoned, and the flight procedes as in a surface launch. Newer SSNs also have vertical launch tubes for the UGM-109 missile.
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-109.html

SM-39 Exocet

http://www.mbda-systems.com/e-catalogue/#/solutions/maritime/43/introduction

Exocet launch capsule does have its own underwater propulsion (i.e. differs from Encapsulated Harpoon in this respect) but not a set of propellors like those as heavyweights torpedoes have.

 

[Safriz]

@Penguin
yes,but still tomahawk was fired from standard 21 inch torpedo tube, wasn't it?

PN Augosta-Khalid class fires Exocet Missiles....probably using the same technique you mention here...
But i am talking about Cruise missile Babur..which has same dimensions as Tomahawk..
whats your opinion about Augosta-Khalid class firing Babur out of standard 21 inch Torpedo tubes?

 

[Pakistanisage]

Sir watch this vid:

wrt the PN and SSBN, 10.10 should be worth watching but the entire vid is useful to understand exactly how hard it is to devlop a SSBN.

Appears to be your ordinary " Garden Variety " and " run of the mill " Indian Fanboy. Nothing newsworthy here.

 

[Penguin]

@Penguin
yes,but still tomahawk was fired from standard 21 inch torpedo tube, wasn't it?

PN Augosta-Khalid class fires Exocet Missiles....probably using the same technique you mention here...
But i am talking about Cruise missile Babur..which has same dimensions as Tomahawk..
whats your opinion about Augosta-Khalid class firing Babur out of standard 21 inch Torpedo tubes?

Starting with Los Angelos class submarine, USN has fired UGM-109 Tomahawks from 21 inch torpedo tubes. All boats of the class are capable of launching Tomahawk cruise missiles horizontally (from the torpedo tubes). The last 31 boats of this class also have 12 dedicated vertical launching system (VLS) tubes for launching Tomahawks. The follow-on SeaWolf class has 660mm rather than 533mm tubes but its successor, the Virginia class, switched back fully to 533mm and VLS.

With Babur, the point is not firing the missile from an SSK like Agosta. The point is how many it can carry (in addition to torpedoes). Virginia class has room for 27 large weapons, Los Angelos for 37, while SeaWolf could carry 50. Agosta can take 'only' 16 large weapons, and some of these will have to be torpedoes.

 

[VelocuR]

Can Pakistan produce or acquire these kinds of ballistic missiles subs.Or can we add cruise missiles to these subs and also to our current agosta subs.I am not an expert so will like to get some good opinions.No trolling please be serious.

I asked this same question ten years ago. The answer is after Agosta transfer of technology experiences, still Pakistan doesn't have the resources to produce---no mechanic, tools, avionics, lacks of skills, R&D, billion budgets, components controls in Western world. French helped them temporarily.

Your video is I have seen many times, it showed the intelligences of Russian minds, unlike Pakistan who tested first low-quality helicopter (gyrocopter).

In order to play mouse and cat games, Nuclear Submarines carrying under deep water and heavy noises is more complicated than straight forward missiles tests.

 

[Pashtun Wali]

Thanks for sharing your opinions guys.I think we may not be able to make a nuclear sub or we may not even need it in near future i mean in 10 years.But can we acquire Chinese subs and make them able to fire Cruise missiles and other short range missiles.I think this is very much possible.Also having a nuclear sub just with nuclear tipped Ballistic missiles is not good too.We can't really use that sub unless going for a nuclear attack.I think getting new Chinese subs and make them carry Cruise missiles along with Agostas is a good option.What you say.

 

[Safriz]

Thanks for sharing your opinions guys.I think we may not be able to make a nuclear sub or we may not even need it in near future i mean in 10 years.But can we acquire Chinese subs and make them able to fire Cruise missiles and other short range missiles.I think this is very much possible.Also having a nuclear sub just with nuclear tipped Ballistic missiles is not good too.We can't really use that sub unless going for a nuclear attack.I think getting new Chinese subs and make them carry Cruise missiles along with Agostas is a good option.What you say.

Agosta-Khalid can carry Nuclear cruise missiles right now,if the missiles are ready,so yes Pakistan has a nuclear weapon 'ready' submarine as we speak.
The probles is the submarine is too small to carry enough numbers of Babur missiles,may be 4-8 at maximum.

The chinese option is Qing class submarines,which at 6000 tons are large enough to carry 20+ Babur missiles in addition to ballistic missiles.
The sub can be efficiently operated with diesel propulsion,and can be fitted with nuclear reactor.
But for the moment Pakistsn hasnt asked china for the submarine in any official status.

For now probably all Agosta-Khalid class subs may carry 4-8 Babur missiles each,acting as nuclear second strike deterrant collectively.

 

[Safriz]

on the other hand same cannot be said about india.
Their only cruise missile Brahmos is 23 inches wide,and their sindhgosh class subs have the standard 21 inch torpedo tubes which cannot carry Brahmos.
So at this time,in this field Pakistan is ahead of India.
We have the subs,we have the missiles,just need an underwater launching system.
Indua will need totally new missiles and new subs.

 

[Contrarian]

on the other hand same cannot be said about india.
Their only cruise missile Brahmos is 23 inches wide,and their sindhgosh class subs have the standard 21 inch torpedo tubes which cannot carry Brahmos.
So at this time,in this field Pakistan is ahead of India.
We have the subs,we have the missiles,just need an underwater launching system.
Indua will need totally new missiles and new subs.

First test expected by Feb 2013. Development is complete.
Next line of subs mandates that it should be able to accomodate both Brahmos and Nirbhay

 

[Safriz]

First test expected by Feb 2013. Development is complete.
Next line of subs mandates that it should be able to accomodate both Brahmos and Nirbhay

Which submarine they will fit Brahmos into?
Currently no indian submarine can carry Brahmos,due to torpedo tubes not matching with Brahmos.
On the other hand Pakistan made a standard sized missile which cam fit into a standard torpedo tube of current and future submarines.

In this fiekd Pakistan is ahead of india...admit it

 

[The Deterrent]

@Safriz you might be forgetting the K-15 Sagarika which is due for testing from a pontoon as well as the INS Arihant.

 

[Safriz]

@Safriz you might be forgetting the K-15 Sagarika which is due for testing from a pontoon as well as the INS Arihant.

K-15 is a ballistic missile and will need new subs,the Arihant class,and both are 'to be' tested,and have many issues.
Babur exists,Agosta-Khalid exists.and both compatible to each other. India currently dont have a missile compatible to any submarine.
So there is the difference.
Plus K-15 has same range as Babur.

 

[Safriz]

Pakistan hints at the existence of submarine launched variant of the Babur (Hatf-VII) | Pakistan Defence

 

[Contrarian]

Which submarine they will fit Brahmos into?
Currently no indian submarine can carry Brahmos,due to torpedo tubes not matching with Brahmos.
On the other hand Pakistan made a standard sized missile which cam fit into a standard torpedo tube of current and future submarines.

In this fiekd Pakistan is ahead of india...admit it

No current Indian submarine can fit Brahmos. That is why i said the 'next line of subs'.
However Nirbhay, which is to be revealed by Feb 2013 should fit in the standard torp tubes. We can confirm/reject once that happens.
Sure. I agree. But currently even Pakistan is not fielding it on the subs. So its a question of potential. Pakistan can, but hasnt till now.