Borei Class nuclear submarines for India?

[Luca1]

I don't think its remotely possible. Russia is a signatory of MTRC , NTP and all those treaties.
They can not sell a SSBN and only lease a SSN that to without land attack capability.

Secondly, in my opinion, Arihant and Boris are basically the same class of subs. The difference is the tech goes into it. The reactor, no of missile tubes and all....

Then why we need the Borie? Better we get the tech. and upgrade the Arihant class to that standard. In that price we may get couple of SSN attack subs each for a CGB.

That's more logical.

Only an I Dian would say that Borei and Arihant are the same class of subs.. LOL. it's like saying a punto and a Ferrari are the same class of cars because they all have 4 wheels.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Only an I Dian would say that Borei and Arihant are the same class of subs.. LOL. it's like saying a punto and a Ferrari are the same class of cars because they all have 4 wheels.

They are the same class of subs, they both launch ballistic missiles and are nuclear powered. Did you not read his text?

The difference is the tech goes into it. The reactor, no of missile tubes and all....

Topic,

This makes no sense, Russia cant sell their own ballistic missile, so India's going to buy it and retrofit them with its own?

Arihant and it's successors are fine. I dont know why you would even buy it when progress is being made in that department.

 

[mehboobkz]

[QUOTE="Water Car Engineer, post: 6520858, member: 32471

Arihant and it's successors are fine. I dont know why you would even buy it when progress is being made in that department.[/QUOTE]

Flawed rational:

Only 3 Arihant class submarines are not enough, when India is thinking to tackle both Pak/Chinese Navies during any forthcoming war.

Similarly we have homegrown Tejas being rolled out shortly, but we are still looking for some "other types"
If thats okey, then why not submarines too ?

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Flawed rational:

Only 3 Arihant class submarines are not enough, when India is thinking to tackle both Pak/Chinese Navies during any forthcoming war.

Similarly we have homegrown Tejas being rolled out shortly, but we are still looking for some "other types"
If thats okey, then why not submarines too ?

It's not going to be only 3 Arihant subs, but they'll be a successor class after Arihant. Fighter jets and SSBN argument are flawed. Russia's not going to give you SSBNs retrofitted to fire Indian made SLBMs, I doubt they even can. While it's relatively easy to buy out airplanes if you have the money.

It's going to be a pain in the *** having a foreign design, while at the same time developing new SLBMs.

 

[mehboobkz]

It's not going to be only 3 Arihant subs, but they'll be a successor class after Arihant. Fighter jets and SSBN argument are flawed. Russia's not going to give you SSBNs retrofitted to fire Indian made SLBMs, I doubt they even can. While it's relatively easy to buy out airplanes if you have the money.

It's going to be a pain in the *** having a foreign design, while at the same time developing new SLBMs.

You said the following:

Arihant and it's successors are fine. I dont know why you would even buy it when progress is being made in that department.

And now:

Russia's not going to give you SSBNs

If the subs ARE NOT available as per you - why would you even think of buying them?

You see where you stand now?

 

[RISING SUN]

Is it true that Arihant class boats have 1.5 layered hull like Borai class instead of normal single hull western design or double hull Soviet design? I have heard some rumours of commonality between Arihant and Borai claimed by a Russian diplomat.

 

[mehboobkz]

Is it true that Arihant class boats have 1.5 layered hull like Borai class instead of normal single hull western design or double hull Soviet design? I have heard some rumours of commonality between Arihant and Borai claimed by a Russian diplomat.

Its a single hull or double hull, what is 1.5?

 

[Water Car Engineer]

You said the following:

Arihant and it's successors are fine. I dont know why you would even buy it when progress is being made in that department.

And now:

Russia's not going to give you SSBNs

If the subs ARE NOT available as per you - why would you even think of buying them?

You see where you stand now?

Yeah, why would you buy a retro fitted Russian designed sub carrying current Indian made SLBMs?

Indian SLBMs havent even reached their full potential design wise. So each time you want to make another SLBM, you have to deal with the Russians, their subs, their shipyards? Why?

And all that said, I doubt they even can. Considering India cant even do a JV for missiles past 290 km with them, let alone buy nuclear powered subs launching SLBMs. So this whole thread is garbage.

 

[mehboobkz]

Yeah, why would you buy a retro fitted Russian designed sub carrying current Indian made SLBMs?

Indian SLBMs havent even reached their full potential design wise. So each time you want to make another SLBM, you have to deal with the Russians and their sub? Why?

And all that said, I doubt they even can. Considering India cant even do a JV for missiles past 290 km with them, let alone buy nuclear powered subs launching SLBMs. So this whole thread is garbage.

Very simple:

If the subs ARE being sold, knowing their diameter will give the buyer enough idea of fitting their missiles or not.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Very simple:

If the subs ARE being sold, knowing their diameter will give the buyer enough idea of fitting their missiles are not.

If they ARE being sold(which I doubt) - India will be paying out it's *** for a customized Borei Class with Indian missiles ranging 750+ km, and 3500km which have limited use against China.

By the time K6+(SLBM design maturing) SLBMs are out, which covers China completely from a safer location, Arihant class im sure would be done and next class would be building(for those missiles).

India should worry about SSK, SSN subs. SSBNs progress is satisfactory.

 

[mehboobkz]

[QUOTE="Water Car Engineer, post: 6520967, member: 32471" 3500km which have limited use against China.
.[/QUOTE]

Once China knows that Its Capital, Beijing and Shanghai is within Indian striking range, they may think twice to venture into war with India. So in that case 3500 KM is more than enough for the scenario projected. Arihant type mobile platform can do the job from sea of Japan.

Its a case of a deterrence anyway.
China did not attack India when India did not have nukes.
Now even harder for them to take that route.
They are busy over Taiwan issue and encroaching some Indian land if possible.
Thats all.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Once China knows that Its Capital, Beijing and Shanghai is within Indian striking range, they may think twice to venture into war with India. So in that case 3500 KM is more than enough for the scenario projected. Arihant type mobile platform can do the job from sea of Japan.

Its a case of a deterrence anyway.
China did not attack India when India did not have nukes.
Now even harder for them to take that route.
They are busy over Taiwan issue and encroaching some Indian land if possible.
Thats all.

Their cities are already mostly under the land based missiles.

India's SSBN/SLBM programs are progressing fine. Instead of paying god knows how much for retrofitted SSBN and strain the budget, worry about the debilitating SSKs and add some SSNs if possible.

 

[jha]

YES WE should buy at least 10 these submarines and 200 SLBMs and 15 Akulas and 50 PAK-DA and 300 PAK-FAs and 200 F-35 with DSI.

 

[axisofevil]

We need ATTACK SUBS>>

 

[Koovie]

India badly needs a modern submarine fleet. In recent years, Russia has begun building a new class of nuclear powered ballistic submarines, the Borei Class of vessels. Modi should pitch for these submarines.
If this requires cutting expenditures elsewhere, that should be done without any hesitation. Our relationship with Russia is too important to be left to the vicissitudes of indifferent foreign policy. The time to become proactive is now.


View attachment 162389

Gentlemen, Your thoughts and rants, Please.

1.) They wont sell it, thats forbidden. A lease like Chakra is the only option.

2.) Russians do not have enough of them for themselves.