Barcelona to ban Islamic veils in some public spaces

[S_O_C_O_M]

i believe burqa is not islamic anyways.

i agree. its just a form of political Islam.

 

[desiman]

i agree. its just a form of political Islam.

this is actually the first logical comment you have made since you have started here, hope this sanity prevails for long.

 

[amigos]

Where is the freedom to dress the way you like?

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

this is actually the first logical comment you have made since you have started here, hope this sanity prevails for long.

i'm so sick of stupid annoying indian comments like yours. i wonder how idiotic you are in real life.

 

[desiman]

i'm so sick of stupid annoying indian comments like yours. i wonder how idiotic you are in real life.

lol and your back, better watch your tongue my friend, you cast the impression of a very immature person in real life.

 

[S_O_C_O_M]

lol and your back, better watch your tongue my friend, you cast the impression of a very immature person in real life.

i wonder how much more stupid you can get.

 

[fallstuff]

Barcelona has become the first large Spanish city to announce a ban on the wearing of full Islamic face-veils in some public spaces.

The ban was designed to include any head-wear that hindered identification, officials said.

At least two towns in Catalonia, the region that includes Barcelona, have already announced bans.

Belgium and France have both recently taken steps towards restricting the use of full veils in public.

Barcelona's city council said the ban would be largely symbolic, since it was uncommon to see women in the city wearing the full veil.

"Barcelona will forbid the use of the burqa, niqab and any other item which hinders personal identification in any of the city's public installations," a council statement said.

The ban would cover public spaces such as municipal offices, public markets and libraries - but not the streets.

The mayor of Barcelona, Jordi Hereu, said the measure was aimed purely at ensuring people could be identified, and would therefore include balaclavas, motorbike helmets and ski masks.

"In no way does it target religious belief," he said.

The ban is scheduled to take effect in Barcelona after the summer.

The Conservative Popular Party (PP) called for the ban to be extended to all public places, including on the street.

Full veils have already been banned in public spaces in the Catalan towns of Lleida and El Vendrell.

Others are reported to be considering similar measures.

BBC News - Barcelona to ban Islamic veils in some public spaces

All the European wild eyed liberals jumping on the bandwagon. The irony is European renaissance came from Islamic Spain. Then again it is their choice.

 

[Dr.Evil]

All the European wild eyed liberals jumping on the bandwagon. The irony is European renaissance came from Islamic Spain. Then again it is their choice.

What you said about european renaissance might or might not be ture but Europe has moved ahead and developed, and Islamic Nations have lagged behind and still seem to be in dark ages of 7th Century Arabia

 

[Areesh]

What you said about european renaissance might or might not be ture but Europe has moved ahead and developed, and Islamic Nations have lagged behind and still seem to be in dark ages of 7th Century Arabia

Yes we live in dark ages and we are proud of it. Now stop worrying about muslims and don't talk about those issues of which you have no clue of.

 

[v9s]

Really.

The Holy Quran:

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze, and protect their private parts and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islâm), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful. Surah Al Nur Verse 31.

O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks all over their bodies. That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allâh is Ever Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful. Surah Al Ahzab Verse 59.

Authentic Ahadeeth:


Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Hadith # 282
Narrated Safiya bint Shaiba (Radhiallaahu Ánha) "Aisha (Radhiallaahu Ánha) used to say: "When (the Verse): "They should draw their veils over their necks and bosoms," was revealed, (the ladies) cut their waist sheets at the edges and covered their faces with the cut pieces.

Fortunately, you are misinformed and wrong.

Quran is very clear about the dress code for the believers. Innovations and fabrication introduced Hijab (veil) to Islam. Hijab (veil) is a traditional, not religious head cover that dates back to ancient civilizations, and is not supported or advocated by the Quran.

THREE RULES FOR WOMEN DRESS CODE IN ISLAM

FIRST RULE : THE BEST GARMENT

[7:26] "O children of Adam, we have provided you with garments to cover your bodies, as well as for luxury. But the best garment is the garment of righteousness. These are some of GOD's signs, that they may take heed."

This is the BASIC rule of DRESS CODE in the Quran. This is the first rule in WOMEN DRESS CODE in Islam.

SECOND RULE : COVER YOUR BOSOMS

The second rule can be found in 24:31. Here God orders the women to cover their bosoms whenever they dress up. But before quoting 24:31 let us review some crucial words that are always mentioned with this topic, namely "Hijab" and "Khimar"

"Hijab" is the term used by many Muslims women to describe their head cover that may or may not include covering their face except their eyes, and sometimes covering also one eye. The Arabic word "Hijab" can be translated into veil or yashmak. Other meanings for the word "Hijab" include, screen, cover(ing), mantle, curtain, drapes, partition, division, divider.

Can we find the word "Hijab" in the Quran??

The word "Hijab" appeared in the Quran 7 times, five of them as "Hijab" and two times as "Hijaban," these are:

1. The dwellers of paradise will call the dwellers of hell: "we have found our Lord’s promise to be the truth, have you found your Lord’s promise to be the truth?" They will say, "yes." An announcer between them will announce, "God’s condemnation has befallen the transgressors; ...who repel from the path of God and strive to make it crooked, and with regard to the hereafter, they are disbelievers." ...A barrier (hijab) separates them, while the purgatory is occupied by people who recognize each side by their looks, They will call the dwellers of paradise, "peace be upon you." They did not enter (paradise) through wishful thinking [7:44-46].

God barred the disbelievers from heaven. Therefore the barrier (hijab) here is spiritual as well as physical.

2. When you read the Quran, we place between you and those who do not believe in the hereafter an invisible barrier (hijab) [17:45].

3. Mention in the scripture Mary, she isolated herself from her family, into an eastern location. ...While a barrier (hijab) separated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit. He went to her in the form of a human being [19:16-17].

Mary isolated herself from her family and relocated while a "barrier" (hijab) separated her, spiritually and physically, from them. At that time God sent Gabriel to her.

4. A scripture whose verses provide the complete details, in an Arabic Quran, for people who know.... A bearer of good news, as well as a warner. However, most of them turn away; they do not hear. ...They said, "our minds are made up, our ears are deaf to your message, and a barrier (hijab) separates us from you. Do what you want and so will we" [41:3-5].

Because they put on themselves a physical barrier of refusing God’s message, God placed a spiritual barrier on them, making them deaf to the message.

5. No human being can communicate with God except through inspiration, from behind a barrier (hijab), or by sending a messenger through whom He reveals what He wills.... [42:51].

6. O you who believe, do not enter the prophet’s homes unless you are given permission to eat, nor shall you force such an invitation in any manner. If you are invited, you may enter. When you finish eating, you shall leave; do not engage him in lengthy conversations. This used to hurt the prophet, and he was too shy to tell you. But God does not shy away from the truth. If you ask his wives for something, ask them from behind a barrier (hijab). This is purer for your hearts and their hearts.... [33:53].

7. He then said, "I enjoyed the material things more than I enjoyed worshipping my Lord, until the sun was gone (tawaret bel-hijab). [ 38:32]

The prophet’s wives, while at home and relaxing, were not to be disturbed by men during their private times. God made their lives easier by commanding the men to speak to them, if at home, from behind a barrier (hijab). Some "Muslim" scholars have interpreted this to mean that only from outside walls could a man communicate with the prophet’s wives. They also understood from the same verse that the prophet’s wives never left home. They, therefore, wrongly concluded that their wives too must stay at home.

The Arabic word for walls in the Quran is "al hujrat" not hijab.
"As for those who call on you (Muhammad) from outside the walls (al hujrat), most of them do not understand" [49:4].

If women were supposed to stay home all the time, there would not have been a need for commandments concerning the dress code for them.

While many Muslims call "Hijab", an Islamic dress code, they completely ignore the fact that, Hijab as a dress code has nothing to do with Islam and nothing to do with QURAN.

"Hijab" or veil can be traced back to early civilizations. It can be found in early and late Roman and Greek art. The evidence can be seen in archeological discoveries whether in pottery fragments, paintings or recorded civil laws. In Greco-Roman culture, both women and men wore head covering in religious contexts. The tradition of wearing the veil (by women) and the headcover (by men) was then adopted by the Jews who wrote it in the Talmud (Talmud equals the Hadiths and Sunna, neither are the words of God) then the Christians adopted the same. A well respected Rabbi once explained to a group of Jewish young women, "We do not find a direct command in the Torah mandating that women cover their heads, but we do know that this has been the continuing custom for thousands of years." After the prophet Muhammad's death , the writers of the hadith books adopted and encouraged the ancient tradition of head covering. Hadith book' writers took after the Jews as they did with many other traditions , and alleged them to the prophet since the Quran did not command it.

THE WORD "KHIMAR" in the QURAN:

"Khimar" is an Arabic word that can be found in the Quran in 24:31 While the first basic rule of Dress Code for the Muslim Women can be found in 7:26, the second rule of the DRESS CODE FOR WOMEN can be found in 24:31. Some Muslims quote verse 31 of sura 24 as containing the Hijab, or head cover, by pointing to the word, khomoorehenna, (from Khimar), forgetting that God already used the word Hijab, several times in the Quran. Those blessed by God can see that the use of the word "Khimar" in this verse is not for "Hijab" or for head cover. Those who quote this verse usually add (Head cover) (veil) after the word Khomoorehenna, and usually between brackets, because it is their addition to the verse not God's. Here is 24:31,

"And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, (with their Khimar) and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers, that you may succeed."

"Khimar" is an Arabic word that means, cover, any cover, a curtain is a Khimar, a dress is a Khimar, a table cloth that covers the top of a table is a Khimar, a blanket can be used as a Khimar..etc. The word KHAMRA used for intoxicant in Arabic has the same root with Khimar, because both covers, the Khimar covers (a window, a body, a table . . . etc.) while KHAMRA covers the state of mind. Most of the translators, obviously influenced by Hadith (fabrications) translate the word as VEIL and thus mislead most people to believe that this verse is advocating the covering of the head.

In 24:31 God is asking the women to use their cover (khimar)( being a dress, a coat, a shawl, a shirt, a blouse, a tie, a scarf . . . etc.) to cover their bosoms, not their heads or their hairs. If God so willed to order the women to cover their heads or their hair, nothing would have prevented Him from doing so. GOD does not run out of words. GOD does not forget. God did not order the women to cover their heads or their hair.

God does not wait for a Scholar to put the correct words for Him!

The Arabic word for CHEST, GAYB is in the verse (24:31), but the Arabic words for HEAD, (RAAS) or HAIR, (SHAAR) are NOT in the verse. The commandment in the verse is clear - COVER YOUR CHEST OR BOSOMS, but also the fabrication of the scholars and most of the translators is clear by claiming- cover your head or hair.

The last part of the verse (24:31) translates as, "They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies." The details of the body can be revealed or not revealed by the dress you wear, not by your head cover.

Notice also the expression in 24:31,

"They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary."

This expression may sound vague to many because they have not understood the mercy of God. Again God here used this very general term to give us the freedom to decide according to our own circumstances the definition of "What is necessary".

It is not up to a scholar or to any particular person to define this term. God wants to leave it personal for every woman and no one can take it away from her. Women who follow the basic rule number one i.e. righteousness, will have no problem making the right decision to reveal only which is necessary.

The word "zeenatahunna" in this verse refers to the woman's body parts (beauty) that can be exaggerated by the movement of the body while walking and not to the artificial ornaments and decorations as some people interpret it or translate it. At the end of the verse, God told the women not to strike with their feet to show their "zeenatahunna." Striking the feet while walking can emphasize , exaggerate or shake certain parts of the body that do not need to be emphasized. It is important to remember that striking the feet while walking does not have this effect on the head, hair or face, they are not part of what God calls in this verse the hidden zeena.

Accepting orders from anybody but God, means idol-worship. That is how serious the matter of Hijab/khimar is. Women who wear Hijab because of tradition or because they like it for personal reasons commit no sin, as long as they know that it is not part of this perfect religion. Those who are wearing it because they think God ordered it are committing Idol-worship, as God did not order it, the scholars did.

 

[v9s]

THIRD RULE : LENGTHEN YOUR GARMENTS

The first regulation of DRESS CODE for Muslim women is in 7:26, the second is in 24:31 and the third is in 33:59

"O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall LENGTHEN their garments. Thus, they will be recognized and avoid being insulted. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful." 33:59

In 33:59, God sets the other regulation for the dress code for the Muslim women during the prophet's life.

Although the verse is talking to the prophet which means this regulation applies to the time of the prophet, just like the order in 49:2, the description fits the spirit of Islam, and can teach us a great deal.

If you reflect on this verse and how God ordered the prophet to tell his wives, his daughters and the wives of the believers to lengthen their garments, you would understand the great wisdom of the MOST WISE, the MOST MERCIFUL. In this verse, God, DELIBERATELY, (and all the TRUE believers know that everything GOD says, does, or did is DELIBERATE) said, tell them, to lengthen their garments, and never said how long is long. God could have said tell them to lengthen their garments to their ankles or to their mid-calf or to their knees, but HE DID NOT. He did not, OUT OF HIS MERCY, not because HE FORGOT as God does not forget. God knows that we will be living in different communities and have different cultures and insists that the minor details of this dress code will be left for the people of every community to hammer for themselves.

It is clear from the above verses that the DRESS CODE for the Muslim women according to the Quran is righteousness and modesty. God knows that this modesty will be understood differently in different communities and that is why He left it open to us to decide for ourselves. Decide, after righteousness what is modesty. Modesty for a woman who lives in New York may not be accepted by a woman who lives in Cairo Egypt. Modesty of a woman who lives in Cairo, Egypt may not be accepted by a woman who lives in Saudi Arabia.

Modesty of a woman who lives in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia may not be accepted by a woman who lives in a desert oasis in the same country. This difference in the way we perceive modesty is well known to God, He created us, and He put NO hardship on us in this great religion. He left it to us to decide what modesty would be. For any person, knowledgeable or not to draw a line and make conclusion for God about the definition of modesty is to admit that he/she knows better than God.

God left it open for us and no-one has the authority to restrict it, it has to stay open.

RELAXING THE DRESS CODE:

In the family setting, God put no hardship on the women, and permitted them to relax their dress code. If you reflect on the verses, 33:35 and 24:60, you will see that God did not give details of what this relaxation is, because every situation is different.

A woman may relax her dress code in front of the four-year-old son of her brother but not as much in front of the 16 year old son.

"The women may relax (their dress code) around their fathers, their sons, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, the other women, and their (female) servants. They shall reverence GOD. GOD witnesses all things." 33:55

"The elderly women who do not expect to get married commit nothing wrong by relaxing their dress code, provided they do not reveal too much of their bodies. To maintain modesty is better for them. GOD is Hearer, Knower." 24:60

CONCLUSION:

God, the Most Merciful, gave us three basic rules for the Dress Code for Women in Islam,

(1) The BEST garment is the garment of righteousness.

(2) Whenever you dress , cover your chest (bosoms).

(3) Lengthen your garment.

While these three BASIC rules may not sound enough for those who do not trust God, the TRUE believers know that God is ENOUGH. God could have given us more details to the point of having graphs, designs and color rules, but He , the Most Merciful, wants to give us exactly these very basic rules and leave the rest for us. After these three basic rules every woman is more aware of her circumstances and can adjust her dress for her situation. Any addition to these basic Quranic rules is an attempt to correct God or improve on His merciful design.

 

[amit26uk]

I hope we ban the burkha in UK

 

[Chaluboy]

And I hope they Ban it Australia too, lately we have been seeing a horrible apparition called the burkini at Bondi Beach

 

[Bhim]

In my personal opinion we should give limited freedom to our ladies.
Freedom to education, freedom to work, freedom to vote, equal rights in a family. They deserve a lot more respect than men, but we can not allow them to dance semi naked in Bars or all those other vices.
These prohibitions are certainly not DARK AGES OF MEDIEVAL WORLD.

 

[Parashuram1]

For decades muslims are in europe and for decades they are dressing like this way.

Why suddenly all the european nations are getting intolerant? Where were the safety measures or whatever then?

Because suddenly the freedoms given by Europe are being misused by radicals which was not so till now. We hadn't heard of religion-themed militancy and demands for sharia until so many decades but it has happened now.

It is not the fault of common Muslims but the radicals who give a bad name to these otherwise good people. However, for safety sakes certain laws have to be changed.

I remember very well about the Mosque siege incident that happened in one of the Pakistani cities a couple of years back. The main culprit was caught by the police hiding in such an attire that initially assured him an escape. Pakistani forces being more familiar with the dress were able to catch this militant. But what about European ones?

What if some big case militant escapes after bombing several places? Everything has to be changed along with the time. Funny you ask this after living in Germany and knowing the situation first hand.