Azerbaijan Defence Programs & Military Development

[rmi5]

Based on what ? Which criteria did you consider to reach such a result ? Have you ever tested any of Turkish goods before talking about them unconciously ? What you know about them ? Enlighten us with your brillent assessments dude...

Could have we done the same thing?

We have already did.
Kazakh T-70 tanks are being upgraded by Aselsan but Armours are outsourced to Israel.
Kazakh armoured vehicles are being upgraded by Turkey.
Aselsan succesfully upgraded Leopard-1 and Leopard2A4 tanks. Leopard2NG configuration of Aselsan are being considered by a European country at present.

Most probably, You didn't see the image of upgraded Leopard2A4 as well. Type Leopard 2NG to google to reach some details...

What I understand is that the Israeli upgrades on our T-72 tanks, and Aslan standard is superior to Kazakh T-72 tanks with their upgrades.
About Israeli Green Pine radars, does Turkey currently produce anything similar to it?

If the weapons Turkey developed are inferior to What Russia transfered second/first hand goods to Armenia, Then It is the end of the way before beggining. It is a good indication of your biassed and baseless point of view about Turkish engineering activities and developed products.

I am trying to be realistic. Does Turkey currently produce anything comparable to T-90 tanks? Note that I am not talking about the projects that are going to be produced and then mass-produced and then exported in future like Altay tank. What about helicopters? anything comparable to Mil-35? what about air defense? Do you have anything comparable to S-300? these are the real facts my friend.

The matter is not only about ongoing projects to establish a domestic industry infastructure to minimize dependance of Azerbaijan but also matured systems that has already been offered but As you see in naval project examples, Azerbaijan mostly outsources the project to either Israel or Russia with a govern. to government deal, Although Turkish officials along with industrial elements have spend many times to work togather on those projects.

About Navy, I have limited knowledge, so I prefer not to comment about it.

You think Israeli systems you ordered consists fully domestic Israeli systems so You wouldn't meet likely mentioned problems that you pointed out for Turkey's arms ? Have you ever check the aerostar or Heron engines ? What about propulsion systems, chassis of Israeli armoued vehicles ? What about Green pine radars ? Arrow missiles ? What abour SAAR corvette propulsion?...etc Dude, I think your unbelieveable poor approach to Turkey related events make you blind to realize What you are talking about...

Good point, but there is a clear difference. has any european country refused to sell any parts to Israel? has USA refused to do so? The answer is no. Israel has unconditional technological and ... support from Western countries.
What about Turkey? how much Germany bothered you to sell you Leopard tanks? did not they asked you not to use them against kurds and such constraints? The reality is that EU countries policies about Israel and Turkey are very different.

 

[Hakan]

In addition, your leadership, does not give a damn about Azerbaijan or other turkic countries, or turkic people and we are only defined for being importers of turkish goods, while your allies are defined to be the muslim brotherhood movement and muslim arab countries, and even Iran.
I was trying to sugarcoat these words in order not to hurt your emotions, but I think I need to be a bit more frank now

That is completely false

Turkey is unbelievably close to azerbaijan and other turkic countries and turkey would be even closer if it was possible but geography limits us. The reason why you see more attention given to the middle east is because that is where we are located geographically if we were located in central asia you would have a point to your argument

Name me 1 arab country that turkey has closer relations with than it has with azerbaijan?

And Cabatli already addressed the military technology concerns. turkey is giving azerbaijan all opportunities for tot while still maintaing high quality products which meet nato standards.

And its not like a new war is going to start tomorrow because armenia knows it couldn't make any gains so the smartest thing for azerbaijan to do is to get involved in as many projects with turkey as possible,

 

[rmi5]

That is completely false

Turkey is unbelievably close to azerbaijan and other turkic countries and turkey would be even closer if it was possible but geography limits us. The reason why you see more attention given to the middle east is because that is where we are located geographically if we were located in central asia you would have a point to your argument

Name me 1 arab country that turkey has closer relations with than it has with azerbaijan?

And Cabatli already addressed the military technology concerns. turkey is giving azerbaijan all opportunities for tot while still maintaing high quality products which meet nato standards.

And its not like a new war is going to start tomorrow.

How come it is false? The reality is that AKP is looking for the leadership of so called muslim world, which it is some muslim middle countries to be more accurate, and this idea is very dumb even at the first glance. I listed a bunch of policies of AKP which clearly shows who they care the most. Just filter out the nice words in some official presidents meetings and observe the actions. Did AKP helped turkmens or gave the permission to kurds to capture Kirkuk? Did they started to put pressure on Egypt and Sisi, or Armenians? While Erdogan tried to retreat against Armenians, he is standing against Sisi, and Egypt, which is another dumb policy with no useful results for Turkey. Instead of caring for Karabagh, he is talking about Palestine on a 24/7 basis. These are the factors that show what is the reality of AKP policies.

 

[cabatli_53]

What I understand is that the Israeli upgrades on our T-72 tanks, and Aslan standard is superior to Kazakh T-72 tanks with their upgrades.
About Israeli Green Pine radars, does Turkey currently produce anything similar to it?


I am trying to be realistic. Does Turkey currently produce anything comparable to T-90 tanks? Note that I am not talking about the projects that are going to be produced and then mass-produced and then exported in future like Altay tank. What about helicopters? anything comparable to Mil-35? what about air defense? Do you have anything comparable to S-300? these are the real facts my friend.

I really have a hard time to get What you are talking about. We are not talking about big variety of Russian systems inherited from Soviets that create large opportunities to offer one step ahead deals against ongoing/not matured Turkish programs dude. You claimed that Turkish products are inferior in terms of QUALITY and I asked you which criterias did you consider to reach such a result? If you are talking about quality, You should consider an already matured Turkish product with Russian equivalent. To prove What you claimed, You should tell me advantages of Russian system such as range, duration, resistance, protection, climb...etc criterias against available Turkish one. With this way, We will say that Waaavvv man !!! Take a look that Russian product in Armenian hands is better than Turkish equivalent that is designed/developed in accordance with NATO requirements.

With this way, We would have been reached the reality you always talk instead of dreams.

Good point, but there is a clear difference. has any european country refused to sell any parts to Israel? has USA refused to do so? The answer is no. Israel has unconditional technological and ... support from Western countries.
What about Turkey? how much Germany bothered you to sell you Leopard tanks? did not they asked you not to use them against kurds and such constraints? The reality is that EU countries policies about Israel and Turkey are very different.

Turkey met difficulties to export Turkish product having German engine to third countries. It is not about German policies for Turkey but exportation rules of Germans for their subsystems to third countries locating a likely war zone or conflict probability against a likely enemy. It would be the same for Israel, When they wanted to export an Israeli product having German subsystems.

 

[Hakan]

How come it is false? The reality is that AKP is looking for the leadership of so called muslim world, which it is some muslim middle countries to be more accurate, and this idea is very dumb even at the first glance. I listed a bunch of policies of AKP which clearly shows who they care the most. Just filter out the nice words in some official presidents meetings and observe the actions. Did AKP helped turkmens or gave the permission to kurds to capture Kirkuk? Did they started to put pressure on Egypt and Sisi, or Armenians? While Erdogan tried to retreat against Armenians, he is standing against Sisi, and Egypt, which is another dumb policy with no useful results for Turkey. Instead of caring for Karabagh, he is talking about Palestine on a 24/7 basis. These are the factors that show what is the reality of AKP policies.

Im saying its false because with azerbaijan and turkic countries there is actually economic, cultural, and military deals instead of talk which is what is going regarding middle eastern countries for the most part.

When it comes to Turkmens and other smaller turkic groups that don't have a state I believe that there should be more efforts shown and their causes should get more airtime but I also recognize that Turkey is limited in what it can actually achieve to help these people who are both Turks and muslims.

Regarding the karabagh issue turkey has closed it border with armenia even though turkey could benefit financially by opening it, the turkish military is heavily involved in the training of azerbaijans military, and turkey is providing military equipment aswell as offering technology transfer.

Another important thing to note which illustrates close turkish azrebaijani relations is that the azerbaijani (@Islamic faith&Secularism ) troops in afghanistan are in the same barracks as turkish troops. This isn't happening with any of the arab countries that have troops in afghansitan such as the U.A.E.

Azerbaycan Military Development | Page 39

Also you still haven't mentioned an arab country that turkey has better relations with than azerbaijan.

 

[Azeri440]

2 batteries of T-38 Stilet recently delivered with more on order

 

[xenon54 out]

Im saying its false because with azerbaijan and turkic countries there is actually economic, cultural, and military deals instead of talk which is what is going regarding middle eastern countries for the most part.

When it comes to Turkmens and other smaller turkic groups that don't have a state I believe that there should be more efforts shown and their causes should get more airtime but I also recognize that Turkey is limited in what it can actually achieve to help these people who are both Turks and muslims.

Regarding the karabagh issue turkey has closed it border with armenia even though turkey could benefit financially by opening it, the turkish military is heavily involved in the training of azerbaijans military, and turkey is providing military equipment aswell as offering technology transfer.

Another important thing to note which illustrates close turkish azrebaijani relations is that the azerbaijani (@Islamic faith&Secularism ) troops in afghanistan are in the same barracks as turkish troops. This isn't happening with any of the arab countries that have troops in afghansitan such as the U.A.E.

Azerbaycan Military Development | Page 39

Also you still haven't mentioned an arab country that turkey has better relations with than azerbaijan.

Its relatively clear that there is no country in same status for Turkey like Azerbaijan, the next country which comes close is Pakistan, with that said, what annoys people is Erdogans populist attitude to put religion in every damn context and his cry shows on tv for Arabs while completely ignoring the problems of Turks across the world.

 

[Hakan]

2 batteries of T-38 Stilet recently delivered with more on order

 

[rmi5]

I really have a hard time to get What you are talking about. We are not talking about big variety of Russian systems inherited from Soviets that create large opportunities to offer one step ahead deals against ongoing/not matured Turkish programs dude. You claimed that Turkish products are inferior in terms of QUALITY and I asked you which criterias did you consider to reach such a result? If you are talking about quality, You should consider an already matured Turkish product with Russian equivalent. To prove What you claimed, You should tell me advantages of Russian system such as range, duration, resistance, protection, climb...etc criterias against available Turkish one. With this way, We will say that Waaavvv man !!! Take a look that Russian product in Armenian hands is better than Turkish equivalent that is designed/developed in accordance with NATO requirements.

With this way, We would have been reached the reality you always talk instead of dreams.

In my previous post, I directly mentioned some Russian products that we have bought from them, and I would appreciate it if you tell me if Turkey produce anything with higher quality than these equipments. The list includes S-300 PMU-2 in air defense category, T-90 in MBT category, Mil-35 in helicopters.

 

[-SINAN-]

In my previous post, I directly mentioned some Russian products that we have bought from them, and I would appreciate it if you tell me if Turkey produce anything with higher quality than these equipments. The list includes S-300 PMU-2 in air defense category, T-90 in MBT category, Mil-35 in helicopters.

Rmi you are comparing apples with oranges... we have no system like S-300 or Mi-35.....

İf you are saying Turkish products are inferior to it's Russian counter parts please do us a a fair comparison.

 

[rmi5]

Im saying its false because with azerbaijan and turkic countries there is actually economic, cultural, and military deals instead of talk which is what is going regarding middle eastern countries for the most part.

Economical ties? Your top export destination: 2.Iraq 3.Iran 5.UAE Your top import partners: 6. Iran, and Iraq would also jump up very quickly since you have started to increase importing their oil from their northern region.
Military deals? Every single military equipment that is sold to us, is sold to some arab countries as well.
Cultural ties? That's a very vague term, but I am sure that your leadership feels more close in this term to muslim brotherhood, from religious, cultural, and political point of view compared to turkic countries.

When it comes to Turkmens and other smaller turkic groups that don't have a state I believe that there should be more efforts shown and their causes should get more airtime but I also recognize that Turkey is limited in what it can actually achieve to help these people who are both Turks and muslims.

Again, these are just cheap talks, dude. What has happened is that you gave kurds the permission to capture turkmen cities, and started to buy oil which comes from these cities. This action speaks much louder than cheap fake talks. BTW, even in your post, you started to stick to this religious ties again, and said we should help them since they are turkic and muslim.

Regarding the karabagh issue turkey has closed it border with armenia even though turkey could benefit financially by opening it, the turkish military is heavily involved in the training of azerbaijans military, and turkey is providing military equipment aswell as offering technology transfer.

Azerbaijani-Turkish relations has not been a one way street. Each side has provided some benefits for the other side, which could not have been achieved with a third country like Armenia. Although, we appreciate what you have done for Azerbaijan, but I dislike your approach in looking down to Azerbaijan.

Another important thing to note which illustrates close turkish azrebaijani relations is that the azerbaijani (@Islamic faith&Secularism ) troops in afghanistan are in the same barracks as turkish troops. This isn't happening with any of the arab countries that have troops in afghansitan such as the U.A.E.

Azerbaycan Military Development | Page 39

That's pretty obvious. Azerbaijanis and Turkish soldiers speak the almost the same language, so they will be placed in the same barracks. If UAE soldiers were speaking the same language, they will be sent to these barracks as well.

Also you still haven't mentioned an arab country that turkey has better relations with than azerbaijan.

Dude, you need to have some measures to examine something. what you are saying is vague. How to examine and do such comparison? I clearly mentioned many of your AKP actions which shows the overall trend in your foreign policy. BTW, if you insist to have some examples, I can mention the Egypt under Mursi rule, and the non-existing Palestine country.

 

[ASQ-1918]

@rmi5

Azerbaijan's military is largely based on Turkish model, and there is a huge number of officers trained in Turkey.

To illustrate the relationship between the two militaries, even the new camo is based on Turkish camo.

 

[rmi5]

Rmi you are comparing apples with oranges... we have no system like S-300 or Mi-35.....

İf you are saying Turkish products are inferior to it's Russian counter parts please do us a a fair comparison.

That's part of my point. our friends are asking why Azerbaijan keeps buying arms from countries other than Turkey, and my answer was that because Turkey either does not produce these equipments(like S-300), or they are just planned to be produced(like Altay), or they are inferior to some other countries. They are some cases that your products are comparable to other countries like your Otokar cobra which we have already bought them.

@rmi5

Azerbaijan's military is largely based on Turkish model, and there is a huge number of officers trained in Turkey.

To illustrate the relationship between the two militaries, even the new camo is based on Turkish camo.

How can we examine your words?
I think there are two measures:
1) our arm purchases which show that our arm purchase from Russia has been multiple times higher than our arms purchases from Turkey in the past decade.
2) Our current equipments which are also mostly Russian, except for some Cobras from Turkey, and some UAVs, and radars from Israel.

 

[-SINAN-]

That's part of my point. our friends are asking why Azerbaijan keeps buying arms from countries other than Turkey, and my answer was that because Turkey either does not produce these equipments(like S-300), or they are just planned to be produced(like Altay), or they are inferior to some other countries. They are some cases that your products are comparable to other countries like your Otokar cobra which we have already bought them.



How can we examine your words?
I think there are two measures:
1) our arm purchases which show that our arm purchase from Russia has been multiple times higher than our arms purchases from Turkey in the past decade.
2) Our current equipments which are also mostly Russian, except for some Cobras from Turkey, and some UAVs, and radars from Israel.

Still not answering the question ?

 

[ASQ-1918]

What I say and arms purchases are two different things.

Procurement of arms from Turkey are not only limited to "some Cobras" from Turkey, and not "some UAVs and radars" from Israel. They include a wide range of equipment.