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Asoka Chakra, Chanakya and RAW

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The arrest of the Indian diplomat Ms Madhuri Gupta on charges of spying for Pakistan is a serious development. It shows that there is something seriously wrong with India’s external Intelligence agency RAW( Research and Analysis Wing). RAW was depicted by the local and Indian media as a formidable intelligence agency that is behind major events in South Asia. Some analysts went to the extend of claiming that RAW became the “ Mother of All Agencies,” due to strategic ties with CIA and Mossad. However, Gupta’s case and other similar cases show that there is inherent weakness in the rusted RAW. It also shows that there is no substance in shifting the blame on Pakistani agencies in matters pertaining to the failure of RAW and other Indian agencies to stop some very serious terrorist operations against India.

RAW’s recent failure is similar to the CIA failure in stopping massive terrorist campaign against the United States in 9/11. The failure of CIA and other US intelligence agencies was so comprehensive that many analysts and thinkers advocated an “ inside job” in planning or at least executing 9/11.

Earlier, Indian intelligence agencies were clueless about Kargil operation that caught the Indian army in total surprise. Similarly RAW could not penetrate the Indian separatist movements. It extensively relied on blaming Pakistan to cover up the mess inside RAW.

According to the Indian media, RAW and sensitive Indian institutions were penetrated by foreign spies. In 2006, the Delhi Police arrested SS Paul, a computer systems operator at the National Security Council(NSC). Later investigation showed that SS Paul passed on NSC documents to Rosanna Minchew, a CIA operative working under cover as a Third Secretary at the United States’ Embassy in New Delhi.

In 2004, the RAW was devastated by the defection of Rabinder Singh to the United States. Sigh was a senior officer who had handled very sensitive covert operations. The CIA recruited him following reports indicating decoding cipher traffic generated by the US mission in Islamabad. Nobody knows as to why RAW found it important to spy on US Embassy in Pakistan even as Washington and New Delhi are strategic partners. In fact the so-called “ trust- deficit” between RAW and CIA is a characteristic of the Indian intelligence in dealing with all member states of SAARC.

Lack of professionalism within RAW suppressed the role of Hindutva in 26/11 who perpetrated Babri Mosque, Godhra Train fire, Gujrat Massacre, killing of Christians, Malegoan bombing, Samjhuta Express and many other operations against minorities.

Unfortunately RAW continues to engage in disinformation campaigns, espionage and sabotage against Pakistan and other neighbouring countries. On the other hand the RAW failed in dealing with separatist movements in Manipur and Tripura in the northeast, Tamil Nadu in the south and Punjab and Kashmir in the northwestern part of the country.

RAW is in a state of decline due to poor service conditions and promotion prospects. It is finding immense difficulties including problems retaining new recruits.

Other problems that RAW face include badly needed specialists, trouble drawing talents and in-house cadre lack. RAW is chronically suffering from vision deficit in facing emerging problems.
 
@Chappal chor

there was no need to give the article here...however a good read..
 
The arrest of the Indian diplomat Ms Madhuri Gupta on charges of spying for Pakistan is a serious development. It shows that there is something seriously wrong with India’s external Intelligence agency RAW( Research and Analysis Wing). RAW was depicted by the local and Indian media as a formidable intelligence agency that is behind major events in South Asia. Some analysts went to the extend of claiming that RAW became the “ Mother of All Agencies,” due to strategic ties with CIA and Mossad. However, Gupta’s case and other similar cases show that there is inherent weakness in the rusted RAW. It also shows that there is no substance in shifting the blame on Pakistani agencies in matters pertaining to the failure of RAW and other Indian agencies to stop some very serious terrorist operations against India.

RAW’s recent failure is similar to the CIA failure in stopping massive terrorist campaign against the United States in 9/11. The failure of CIA and other US intelligence agencies was so comprehensive that many analysts and thinkers advocated an “ inside job” in planning or at least executing 9/11.

Earlier, Indian intelligence agencies were clueless about Kargil operation that caught the Indian army in total surprise. Similarly RAW could not penetrate the Indian separatist movements. It extensively relied on blaming Pakistan to cover up the mess inside RAW.

According to the Indian media, RAW and sensitive Indian institutions were penetrated by foreign spies. In 2006, the Delhi Police arrested SS Paul, a computer systems operator at the National Security Council(NSC). Later investigation showed that SS Paul passed on NSC documents to Rosanna Minchew, a CIA operative working under cover as a Third Secretary at the United States’ Embassy in New Delhi.

In 2004, the RAW was devastated by the defection of Rabinder Singh to the United States. Sigh was a senior officer who had handled very sensitive covert operations. The CIA recruited him following reports indicating decoding cipher traffic generated by the US mission in Islamabad. Nobody knows as to why RAW found it important to spy on US Embassy in Pakistan even as Washington and New Delhi are strategic partners. In fact the so-called “ trust- deficit” between RAW and CIA is a characteristic of the Indian intelligence in dealing with all member states of SAARC.

Lack of professionalism within RAW suppressed the role of Hindutva in 26/11 who perpetrated Babri Mosque, Godhra Train fire, Gujrat Massacre, killing of Christians, Malegoan bombing, Samjhuta Express and many other operations against minorities.

Unfortunately RAW continues to engage in disinformation campaigns, espionage and sabotage against Pakistan and other neighbouring countries. On the other hand the RAW failed in dealing with separatist movements in Manipur and Tripura in the northeast, Tamil Nadu in the south and Punjab and Kashmir in the northwestern part of the country.

RAW is in a state of decline due to poor service conditions and promotion prospects. It is finding immense difficulties including problems retaining new recruits.

Other problems that RAW face include badly needed specialists, trouble drawing talents and in-house cadre lack. RAW is chronically suffering from vision deficit in facing emerging problems.

Is there any link to this wonderful piece of Sh** or this is another of ur famous visions from a crystal ball..?



On the other hand the RAW failed in dealing with separatist movements in Manipur and Tripura in the northeast, Tamil Nadu in the south and Punjab and Kashmir in the northwestern part of the country.

Manipur and Tripura are still members in the Indian Union.And Tamil Nadu...? Dude do u even kniow where Tamil Nadu is in the Indian Map..? If In Tamil Nadu there is an insurgency..i can safely say that none of the provinces in Pakistan are there now in Pakistan.
I am from Tamil Nadu and dont u mess me with ur visions.

And if the RAW is so impotent y blaming the TTP,all the weekly bombings in ur country on the RAW...or is it u suffer from Short term memmory loss.?

p.s.: On a lighter note Mr Jammer - i think the blood pipe to ur Grey matter is "Jammed"....:lol:
 
The greatest achievment of RAW is to get the Taliban to fight the Pakistani state (as per the beliefs of most forum members here).
A kafur organisation getting the soldiers of Islam to fight against the greatest muslim country on earth today. That my friends is nothing but a miracle:victory::cheers::chilli:

Well , i really dont think RAW played any role in that. Do you indirectly mean that all the bomb blasts in Pakistan are being funded by RAW?
No way , RAW would never go to such low measures. RAW definetely played no role in turning taliban against pak. It was just that they opposed US intervention in pak and decided to turn against the government.
 
Lack of professionalism within RAW suppressed the role of Hindutva in 26/11 who perpetrated Babri Mosque, Godhra Train fire, Gujrat Massacre, killing of Christians, Malegoan bombing, Samjhuta Express and many other operations against minorities.

Unfortunately RAW continues to engage in disinformation campaigns, espionage and sabotage against Pakistan and other neighbouring countries. On the other hand the RAW failed in dealing with separatist movements in Manipur and Tripura in the northeast, Tamil Nadu in the south and Punjab and Kashmir in the northwestern part of the country.

I would think that the above would be connected with IB & not with RAW. RAW does not deal with internal issues, IB does. I'm also not sure why you guys keep bringing Tamil Nadu into every discussion of separatist movements. There is no problem whatsoever in TN & you guys end up looking like ignoramuses when you insist on dragging that state in. In Manipur & Tripura, there are rarely any problems except for some sporadic instances including protests against the AFSPA in Manipur. Punjab has not had a single incident in the last decade and more.
So, how do these constitute failures?
 
Is there any link to this wonderful piece of Sh** or this is another of ur famous visions from a crystal ball..?
Seems all the crap launched in your upper crust is slowly seeping through your laughing gear. :lol:


Manipur and Tripura are still members in the Indian Union.And Tamil Nadu...? Dude do u even kniow where Tamil Nadu is in the Indian Map..? If In Tamil Nadu there is an insurgency..i can safely say that none of the provinces in Pakistan are there now in Pakistan.
I am from Tamil Nadu and dont u mess me with ur visions.

And if the RAW is so impotent y blaming the TTP,all the weekly bombings in ur country on the RAW...or is it u suffer from Short term memmory loss.?

p.s.: On a lighter note Mr Jammer - i think the blood pipe to ur Grey matter is "Jammed"....:lol:
Tall talk from an incompetent character who even needs Hindi to be translated. Living in denial is exclusive to your kind, just like the Naxal issue, BTW, they have killed another 50 today, sadly some civilians amongst them.
 
Living in denial is exclusive to your kind, just like the Naxal issue, BTW, they have killed another 50 today, sadly some civilians amongst them.

Its really a sad testament to the state of affairs and the irreparability of relations when the so-called educated take such overt pleasure in news of killings of innocents to the extent of keeping score. Its almost as if we are playing video games here knocking off nameless and faceless opponents. Till the day God forbid one of the fallen happens to be our own.
 
Seems all the crap launched in your upper crust is slowly seeping through your laughing gear. :lol:

Repeat...Sources..? U dont have any....haha apology accepted..:cheers:



Tall talk from an incompetent character who even needs Hindi to be translated.
Yes im from Tamil Nadu (the state which according to u is fighting against India :rofl:) and as the name suggests it is the land of Tamil and I dont kow Hindi.
But so wat..thts the beauty of India which u anyway wont understand.

Living in denial is exclusive to your kind, just like the Naxal issue,

U dumbo why deviating from the topic u started abt Tamil Nadu by bringing in Maoists..? Do u even know wer is Tamil Nadu in India.?

BTW, they have killed another 50 today, sadly some civilians amongst them.

Who knows another batch of ur army might have been massacred by the Taliban but ur Army is not disclosing the news.
 
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Its really a sad testament to the state of affairs and the irreparability of relations when the so-called educated take such overt pleasure in news of killings of innocents to the extent of keeping score. Its almost as if we are playing video games here knocking off nameless and faceless opponents. Till the day God forbid one of the fallen happens to be our own.

Agreed to the point that for some it's like a game of numbers. Hardly a day goes by when some individual is always inclined to remind us of the daily bombings in Pakistani cities or Muslim killing Muslim or even taking pride in their spy agencies for causing mayhem. It's been repeatedly said there are no good killers verses the bad ones but as you said people seldom feel the next person's agony.
 
RAW is one of the greatest intelligence agencies in the world and they never linked themselves with assassinations or terrorist activities. We can see many results of RAW's successful works. But few things need to be changed like Official Secrecy Acts should be more tight and they should increase the budget. Though we have a good counter-intelligence we should make it more tech savvy and complex.

Some of the retired RAW officials are very talkative. In many cases they brought top secret cases out side specially in TV interviews, books while those should be secret.

:rofl::rofl:

You are one delusional fellow. RAW is one the best, yeah right, they also never likened themselves to terrorists, what have you been smoking.

You should ask the CIA who is the main man, ask me for articles and I will show you.
 
:rofl::rofl:

You are one delusional fellow. RAW is one the best, yeah right, they also never likened themselves to terrorists, what have you been smoking.

You should ask the CIA who is the main man, ask me for articles and I will show you.

I just want u to clarify one thing:

If the RAW is so dumb why blaming the RAW for all the bomb blasts,TTP etc on RAW..?
or is it that the Security agencies in Pakistan are worse than RAW..?
 
Repeat...Sources..? U dont have any....haha apology accepted..:cheers:
Sleep well on the wet patch. ;)


Yes im from Tamil Nadu (the state which according to u is fighting against India :rofl:) and as the name suggests it is the land of Tamil and I dont kow Hindi.
But so wat..thts the beauty of India which u anyway wont understand.
Let me spoon feed you, the facts are according to the article not my POV. And believe me we know a bit more than for your likings. :azn:

U dumbo why deviating from the topic u started abt Tamil Nadu by bringing in Maoists..? Do u even know wer is Tamil Nadu in India.?
Let me beat you with your own stick, you may be from TN, but the topic was in relation to RAW and it's failures, you got that.

Who knows another batch of ur army might have been massacred by the Taliban but ur Army is not disclosing the news.

Albeit my reply was to your tall claims on RAW's achievements but as the other member said, some sad cases do take pride in the body count. You being an exception. :yahoo:
 
I just want u to clarify one thing:

If the RAW is so dumb why blaming the RAW for all the bomb blasts,TTP etc on RAW..?
or is it that the Security agencies in Pakistan are worse than RAW..?

It isn't just RAW, it is a mixture of different agencies working together, RAW with KGB and KHAD did the same terrorist bombing in the 80's during soviet invasion of Afghanistan. All by itself, it is a useless agency.

ISI is miles ahead of RAW, anyone can tell you that.

Read this and learn about a real powerful efficient agency.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/20/weekinreview/20mazzetti.html

But most C.I.A. veterans agree that no relationship between the spy agency and a foreign intelligence service is quite as byzantine, or as maddening, as that between the C.I.A. and Pakistan’s Directorate for Inter-Services Intelligence, or I.S.I.

Until late last year, when he was elevated to the command of the entire army, the Pakistani spymaster who had been running the I.S.I. was Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani. American officials describe this smart and urbane general as at once engaging and inscrutable, an avid golfer with occasionally odd affectations. During meetings, he will often spend several minutes carefully hand-rolling a cigarette. Then, after taking one puff, he stubs it out.

The grumbling at the C.I.A. about dealing with Pakistan’s I.S.I. comes with a certain grudging reverence for the spy service’s Machiavellian qualities. Some former spies even talk about the Pakistani agency with a mix of awe and professional jealousy.

One senior C.I.A. official, recently retired, said that of all the foreign spymasters the C.I.A. had dealt with, General Kayani was the most formidable and may have earned the most respect at C.I.A. headquarters in Langley, Va. The soft-spoken general, he said, is a master manipulator.

Here is another one.

Pakistan's ISI still supporting the Taliban, say Afghans - Telegraph

The policy adviser to foreign minister Rangeen Dadfar Spanta, said the British and American governments were fully aware of the ISI's role but lacked the courage to confront Islamabad.

ISI is accused becuase of other agencies lack of success against them, they start blaming and what not on ISI becuase of their own failures.

If an agency is good enough, it will be well known and feared, which is the case with ISI.

Look at this pic, it has got CIA master William Casey on the right with the green jacket and the ISI DG Akhtar Abdul Rahman who made ISI an equally efficient agency if not more.



Look how General Rahman is in the centre as a leader with other people who are are extremely influential too.
 
Sleep well on the wet patch. ;)


Let me spoon feed you, the facts are according to the article not my POV. And believe me we know a bit more than for your likings. :azn:

Listen carefully !! I have no reason for not bliveing you until you give a source....I have seen Karthic Sree asking for a source for your claims which remains BS unless you give a valid source..so stop ignoring his demand of a valid source of your BS claims by giving answers that keep on proving your foolishness....

Let me beat you with your own stick, you may be from TN, but the topic was in relation to RAW and it's failures, you got that.

Let me answer you in your own words....'small things amuse little minds';)..He is from TN and he knows what is there in TN and what not...you are not from Tn so you dont..if you you claim to know something ,then prove it by a nutral source or else refrain from speaking in context of anything else that does not matter here...



[Albeit my reply was to your tall claims on RAW's achievements but as the other member said, some sad cases do take pride in the body count. You being an exception. :yahoo:

If your reply was to the tall claims about RAW then reply on that contxt and dont drag othr topics..

....expecting another off topic trolling post from a very senior troller of pdf.:wave:
 
The CIA is commenting on the ISI and not RAW because ISI had a chance to ork with CIA during the Afghan war whereas b/n RAW and CIA there is almost no co-operation.
And according to me the more others dont talk abt a intelligence agency the more it is sucessful in its operation.

And as for ur comment of RAW is useless.....For an intelligence agency only its failures are projected..Its sucesses are however kept under wraps..

Tht is how we in India function...dont know abt ur country.
 
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