Army High commands use to meet Shahbaz Shairf during PTI's government: Sheikh Rasheed

[Norwegian]

What's New? Army High Command does this favor to every political Party at their appropriate time of choosing.
By The Way, Imran Khan is the most favorite person of every DG ISI and past two decades.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1541497961687171072

https://twitter.com/x/status/1541462709795012608

https://twitter.com/x/status/1541399234775117824

So ISI is behind PTI and GHQ is behind your Patwari league?

 

[Mirzali Khan]

It's reversible, they will gain it back again ehrn things go right. Nothing to worry about

Nope.

It will take a lot of time to rebuild reputation. The hatred may be over if things get better but suspicious and mistrust will still be there.

 

[Signalian]

It's very simple really. If the army interferes to improve things when the politicians are messing it up, then they will have the support of the people. But if the politicians are doing things right, and the army interferes and messes things up, then they should be prepared to face criticism from the people.

Ok so for you Army's interference is legal and justified as per requirements and standards of the people.

Yes people voted for PTI that's why there angry now on PTI's removal and now you're here calling it propaganda.

PMLN was at 43 seats then suddenly results were stopped then these seats were increased to 64 .

Results were stopped, gives you hint ? No it wont because you want the narrative to suit your imagination lest all hell breaks loose. A lot more happened too just not in front of you. People voted for PTI lol. sure mate, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Ohh by the way, since Bajwa didnt interfere in 2018 elections, I hope you weren't posting crap about him from 2018 to 2022 just like other members and PTI fans.

 

[Signalian]

It's the Pak Deep State. They're way too powerful and extremely resourceful. All other folks work like peons for them. Every corrupt folk also works for them. I am pretty sure 90% of the wealth these corrupts - including the top Mafias - have in fact belong to the Deep State.....

Now, the question is why such an arrangement? Is it to deceive the West to counter India? Is it to preserve Pak's core interests and sovereignty? Is it to safeguard the Paks' way of life? Or, is it simply mortals' insatiable thirst for power and wealth?

PTI supporters have to be COAS Bajwa fans since neither Bajwa nor Army had any involvement in 2018 elections and IK came to power fair and square. The deep state lost in 2018 even being so powerful and resourceful. IK showed them yeah

1947 to 2018- Deep state wins
2018 IK Vs deep State - IK wins
2022- IK Vs Deep state- Deep state wins

 

[TheDarkKnight]

None of this against the Army when same happened with meetings with PTI during the time of ousting Nawaz Shareef, all was hush then. Then everybody stayed quiet. Now the propaganda against Army is full on. Its these double standards of public that helped Pakistan hit rock bottom since 1947.

Army helping PTI come in power - not a sound.
Army helping PMLN come in power - all uproar.

No wonder the public is the sufferer and will continue to suffer as it upholds double standards.

Issue is people are not acknowledging the bold part and claiming neutrality of institutions - which is false. Rest I agree, our people are not that impartial where they would question the legality and morality of actions when they are the beneficiaries. Its only on the other side when people remember rules and laws. You can see it with PTI supporters here (as you stated) and you can see with PMLN supporters here as well (now biggest advocates of Bajwa and Armed forces) - including some very senior members - who are still calling Bajwa as neutral.

 

[Signalian]

Issue is people are not acknowledging the bold part and claiming neutrality of institutions - which is false. Rest I agree, our people are not that impartial where they would question the legality and morality of actions when they are the beneficiaries. Its only on the other side when people remember rules and laws. You can see it with PTI supporters here (as you stated) and you can see with PMLN supporters here as well (now biggest advocates of Bajwa and Armed forces) - including some very senior members - who are still calling Bajwa as neutral.

Army should have never been allowed to come in politics or dissolving assemblies since 1960s, Ayub's era. I am against martial law. Its the public's fault that some of them cheered when Ayub came to power, same happened in Zia and Musharraf's tenure, why did the public support them ? Public shouldn't have let Ayub or military men after him come into power.
Corrupt public, corrupt leaders. Our public thrives on corrupt system where it benefits them. However, when the corrupt system doesn't give them any advantage then they whine and shout against it.

 

[Acetic Acid]

Ok so for you Army's interference is legal and justified as per requirements and standards of the people.


Results were stopped, gives you hint ? No it wont because you want the narrative to suit your imagination lest all hell breaks loose. A lot more happened too just not in front of you. People voted for PTI lol. sure mate, whatever helps you sleep at night.

Ohh by the way, since Bajwa didnt interfere in 2018 elections, I hope you weren't posting crap about him from 2018 to 2022 just like other members and PTI fans.

Yes Army did interfered and reduced PTI seats
Results stopped and PMLN seats increased
2018 wasn't the first time army lost elections but they toppled all the governments later on from those elections.

People voted and that's they're angry on removal

Bajwa himself accepted Khawaja asif called him when he was losing election

Please answer with logic rather instead of just saying army interfere always and it should be normal and it's just for Pakistan interests

This topi drama doesn't work on public anymore

 

[Jango]

Army should have never been allowed to come in politics or dissolving assemblies since 1960s, Ayub's era. I am against martial law. Its the public's fault that some of them cheered when Ayub came to power, same happened in Zia and Musharraf's tenure, why did the public support them ?

Because no one cares who comes in power as long as the new person gives you a better country than the previous one.

People cheered for Ayub and Zia and Musharraf because the current 'democratic' leaders of the time were simply too busy in their own petty politics, as they are now.

Even if today, martial law is declared but it means that the people get to be in a better condition than they are now, they would welcome it with open arms.

The thing that has changed now though is that the poeple have waken up to the way political dealings are done between the estab and politicians. Previously, it was mostly reported in a 4th page column of some obscure newspaper a month later, or in a book 10 years later. Now, it is being discussed in every drawing room, every khokha, every corner. Sure, some of it is fluff and hyperbole, but some of it is not.

And on another note, I have seen you drawing a whole lot of false equivalences in this thread, so just on that note:

1- When PTI came into power, no elected government was removed from office by such manner. No lotas were given money to switch allegiances, radically different parties weren't told to be allies with each other.

2- The court and the ECP of that time was not pressurized to keep a CM at power come what may. The ECP was not in contempt of court and in violation of law. The CM was not a CM even though no law in the country allows him to be. Can you imagine that, no law at all of this country makes room for Hamza Shehbaz to be CM, but he still is. How?

3- You cannot deny the grassroot support PTI had at the time. I do not know if you were in Pakistan or not, but PTI was definitely a strong presence at the time, anyone saying otherwise is simply denying the facts.

4- Am I saying PTI had NO support during the 2018 elections? Not at all. It did. Am I saying that PTI had no support during the 3 years in power? Nope. But you surely cannot create an equivalence between that time and now.

Take it this way, you are making a car. You have done most of the work, the chassis, the engine, the body work etc, but at the end I come in and just fit in the doors and a bit of upholstery.

On the other hand, you had to make a car, but I make the whole thing from A to Z...are the two cases equivalent?

Certain top estab officials weren't giving guarantees to anyone in the PTI that their cases will be quashed and they will be set free in 2018, and certainly weren't plotting to remove an elected government of the time.

One more thing, if the army was so behind PTI, why did SMQ lose his PA seat? And itna hi tha, to fauj phir zyada majority dilwa deti na PTI ko, kyun nhn kia woh?

 

[Acetic Acid]

One more thing, if the army was so behind PTI, why did SMQ lose his PA seat? And itna hi tha, to fauj phir zyada majority dilwa deti na PTI ko, kyun nhn kia woh?

SMQ was candidate for CM Punjab
He was made to loose MPA seat

And aleem khan was made to loose MNA seat but won MPA seat because they wanted him to be CM for which they kept asking Imran khan to which khan replied go change your Corps commanders as per my wish

 

[Signalian]

One more thing, if the army was so behind PTI, why did SMQ lose his PA seat? And itna hi tha, to fauj phir zyada majority dilwa deti na PTI ko, kyun nhn kia woh?

Looks like "Deep state" isn't that powerful after all and God exists even when we try to throw that role onto the high and mighty "deep state". We draw daggers at every thread concerning these matters. Apologies as my views don't match with yours.

 

[Jango]

SMQ was candidate for CM Punjab
He was made to loose MPA seat

And aleem khan was made to loose MNA seat but won MPA seat because they wanted him to be CM for which they kept asking Imran khan to which khan replied go change your Corps commanders as per my wish

Exactly.

Can you imagine, SMQ won for MNA from the same polling stations from which he lost the MPA seat. Can you imagine?

Aleem Khan mintain karta reh gaya but IK didn't agree at the time to make him CM. The estab tried to put pressure through Q league but Pervez Elahi wasn't too conducive to the idea, since he was eyeing the spot for himself if Buzdar goes. Keeping Buzdar as CM was the biggest stupidity that IK could do TBH, bana deta Aleem Khan ko hi CM, or some other administrator.

The estab also wanted a Sec Def of their own choosing...but IK didn't budge.

Anyone who even is half aware of the proceedings that go behind closed doors would laugh at the equivalencies being made between now and 2018.

Looks like "Deep state" isn't that powerful after all and God exists even when we try to throw that role onto the high and mighty "deep state". We draw daggers at every thread concerning these matters. Apologies as my views don't match with yours.

How very convenient.

The estab was so powerful that it got PTI 150 odd seats, woh sab estab ka karna hai, nothing to do with PTI. But the failure to get a simple majority is all PTI's, us time estab becomes too weak and everything cannot be thrown onto the estab's account. Very very convenient.

 

[Signalian]

Yes Army did interfered and reduced PTI seats
Results stopped and PMLN seats increased
2018 wasn't the first time army lost elections but they toppled all the governments later on from those elections.

People voted and that's they're angry on removal

Bajwa himself accepted Khawaja asif called him when he was losing election

Please answer with logic rather instead of just saying army interfere always and it should be normal and it's just for Pakistan interests

This topi drama doesn't work on public anymore

I did, unless you forgot to look at it. The votes for PTI were less. Military stationed at polling stations stayed behind and lots was done, but obviously many things are not leaked out. PTI was not winning, it was made to win. I wouldn't be blabbering on if i hadn't been told about this from the ones on duty. You don't want to believe, that is not my problem. The first plan was to bring out public on the roads in favor of PTI, that failed. The Tsunamis weren't creating that of an impact even with the presence of the young folk. The next plan was through polling. You can guess now which entities were behind all this.

 

[SQ8]

Sir you are very right. I wish we had such transparency in our system. As a civilian, I came across this notion of securitization in ISSB where I didn`t get details of my result. As per rumors, it gets stashed in GHQ for future reference, perhaps. Nonetheless, there are many mysteries that got covered up under this label. But yes, secrecy is must in certain cases of national security, such as location of nukes or a strategy for an ongoing war or a future war. If such things get public, they could undermine state`s security. But applying it to everything to escape accountability is not right.





Sir I have no access to any such information, therefore I cannot rely on conspiracy theories. I am sorry if it`s a blunt no, but I would like to see evidence if there is any to back up this claim.

Every country has secrets - To this day there are just rumors as to what sits in Groom Lake(area 51) in terms of aviation.
Not all activities of the CIA are declared - but the US public has a right to know what happened in Afghanistan, what operations are going on - and they do that by being smart enough to get elected representatives that ask those questions. They too fail at times but at least the "freedom of knowledge" is a known right.

Problem is, unless you ask what do you know that is being hidden "under state security" is actually damaging the country?

A Retd Col(if I got the rank right) under Ess Pee Dee took corruption of $250000 by selling/buying a piece of equipment to SPD due to his position.
And it is just one of the smaller misappropriations.

This off course will never get out because that organization falls under national security, so if the country is being raped under the guise of national security by a few but powerful/connected individuals of the institution which is OUR PRIDE then WHO is responsible?

YOU - Pakistani citizens who let it happen.

You have the proverbial permission - as they say in Urdu "Aap hi ne chouth di howi hai"

The institutions rely on you to do your checks and balances, not sit back and relax and go "Allah hawalay" and be selfish; only to whine about it when all hell finally breaks loose.

 

[Signalian]

How very convenient.

The estab was so powerful that it got PTI 150 odd seats, woh sab estab ka karna hai, nothing to do with PTI. But the failure to get a simple majority is all PTI's, us time estab becomes too weak and everything cannot be thrown onto the estab's account. Very very convenient.

Lets agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Army helping PTI come in power - not a sound.
Army helping PMLN come in power - all uproar.

It's not that simple. The fact is the army has for decades manufactured dynasties like Bhuttos, Sharifs and mafia godfather Altaf. So if they did were involved with PTI it was what they always had done.

Which brings us today. Maybe, just maybe it's fcukin time for the army to stick to defending the borders and sorting out Balochistan. Enough is enough. It';s time for change or do you think just because they have been screwing around since 1950s that they should continue that for perpetuity?

If in the 70 years of screwing about Pakistan resenmbled Australia, nay even Turkey or hell had the vigour we see in Bangladesh we might even accept these cnuts but look at the mess the country is in.