An Arab-Israeli alliance is taking shape in the Middle East

[Ritual]

Lost against whom? People who are 2/3 Arabs (Arab Jews) themselves? An entity that has the full backing and always had of the entire US, West, Russia, China and who have the most influential lobby in the world and whose army was made up by mostly battle-hardened WW2 Zionist survivors who fought against Palestinian peasants, farmers, fishermen, town dwellers etc.? Yet the Palestinians outnumber the Jews today and still inhabit large areas of Palestine and almost every part of Israel. Nor was it ever all Arabs vs Israel.

Remove the Western support, Western nuclear weapons, and Israel would not survive 1 day in a sea among Arabs (like throughout history) if they behaved as hostile.

BTW you forget that almost all Arab Jews ere deported from the Arab world. Only a few 1000 are left.

Anyway no need to put a smiley.

Tiny Armenia humiliated your Azeri brothers, did they not? Is China not supposedly having 3+ million Uyghur's in concentration camps while we speak?

Did Russians not genocide almost all Crimean Tatars while annexing Crimea recently? Did Russia/USSR not kill millions of Turks in Central Asia and successfully Russyfying them turning them into vodka-drinking Ivanovs? Or what about the Balkans? How many Turks were killed/deported?

Hell, are you Anatolian (sorry Turkish) nationalists not blaming Arab countries for killing all the Turkish-Arabs as well?



Of course they would. It is not a fight against Israel anyway but the entire West and USA. Obviously no Muslim country would stand a chance.

Remove Palestinians and replace them with Punjabis, Baloch, Sindhis, Pashtuns, Mujahir's whatever and put them in Palestinians place 70-80 years ago and the outcome would be the same or even worse.

But you know Arab-bashing is fashionable on PDF of late, so let them believe that a former imperial power and actual martial race (historically) such as Arabs are way weaker than them.

Have in mind that when the border of Pakistan and India was decided, a genuine genocide occurred on both sides (regretfully) that dwarfs anything the Palestinians and Jews have faced in Palestine/Israel but it is much less known.

And quite frankly, to lose, you need to have an official entity to lose. There was not even an independent Palestinian state prior to 1948.



Read my post above. What you are saying is a fairytale.

"Tiny" Israel obtained nuclear weapons way before Pakistan did it. Israeli military tech is way more sophisticated and advanced than Pakistani and every other Muslim one. The Israeli lobby is many times more powerful than the non-existent Pakistani and Indian lobby put together. The Jews are the most "sacred" and "protected" race in the world. Say anything negative about Israel or Jews and you are instantly deemed an "anti-Semite". Israel is basically an US state. They have the full backing of the USA, West, Russia and all world powers. Always had. It is the most militarized country on earth.

I don't know in what alternative reality you are living in.

The West/world did not care when you were fighting several wars against India or when Bangladesh appeared on the map. The entire world cares about Al-Quds (Abrahamic at least) due to the religious/cultural importance of it. There are entire million big Christian sects in the US who take pride in serving the Jew and being a Jewish servant. You can check Youtube and watch videos where non-Jewish Americans are working for free in Israeli farms due to their beliefs.

The West/world only cares about Pakistan-India hostilities now, due to the nuclear element. Prior they did not care much which history is a proof of. Much less than the sacred Jews who apparently witnessed the Holocaust a few years prior to 1948, hence the Western guilt and 100% backing of Jews.

Another example, when Arab states were trying to obtain nuclear weapons long before Pakistan, while openly being hostile to Israel, the entire West prevented us. On the other hand nobody prevented you from obtaining a nuclear weapon, even though the US/West easily could. They wanted a balance against a pro-USSR India.

Facts, but it is easier to bash Arabs of course.

Even taking all that into account you effectively restore relations with Israel without even resolving the Palestinian issue. It is a position of weakness. Israel has made not a single concession and Netanyahu is threatening the annexation of West Bank right now.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Govs/Nation use this "Muslim" excuse to push for their agendas... as Any Muslim Entity did in the past...
People is another thing... Since they do not hold any "Power" of decision, they aren't bothered by that and therefore will keep themselves at the Ummah level and thankfully they do.

You can call it normalisation if you want... or you can ask an Egyptian/Jordanian if it is or not what is happening in the open. But Still the Overwhelming Arabs aren't.

Read about the ISraeli-Arab Dynamic of War... you will curse every single one of them back in the days... It's not that we lack money/Equipment or EVEN International support... since the US and the SOVIETS were mostly With The Arabs or not that much involved, as we see in today Dynamic. The Problem was the "LEaders" made of Selfish, Arrogant pricks who believe that their Numbers will do the Job... That Arabs were bound to win other the enemy... They were no cohesion despite their "Arab NAtionalism"... they stupidocracy that washed up every single "Minds" out of the window, just to keep the "Loyalcracy" in place...
The Same thing that created each state back in the days...is what made they lose against ISrael...

You asked for a Solution... it's simple... ACT AS ONE... and we can't then let's pray Someone/thing pushes us to do it... But... wishing for that will also mean to give up our seat to another...
As for the Political Dialogue... Since when you can bargain with someone who believe to be always right... Dialogue can only occur when each side has something to lose... And nowadays... Arabs are the one "thinking" they have something to lose... ISrael doesn't... and those Decades were their witness... and tbh... with how things goes... not only they will be right to think so... they will also gain the Arab legitimacy to be EVEN MORE right in the future...

Normalisation of Israel with push other Arab countries into other sphere of Influence... it will weaken even more the current dynamic... and you will find yourself even more isolated...

You said that Palestine was an Arab conflict and that governments/people in power, do not care about Muslim causes. So you are basically agreeing with me that Erdogan is a populist hypocrite and uses the Muslim card to gain political influence in the region like anyone else.

I don't see it on PDF. I see great hypocrisy aimed at Arabs and an absurd double standard. That is PDF of course, not the real world.

I never said anything about the majority of us supporting normalization, I wrote the exact opposite, that the majority of us live in a fantasy world where somehow Israel will disappear and we will magically defeat a nuclear armed Israel/US state just because Jews were under Arab dominance for most of recorded history and we cannot understand how come a non-warrior race (historically) has the upper hand against Palestinians. That or somehow the usual stuff of Allah (swt) will deal with it kind of logic.

I read about all those wars in detail and I am aware of the successes and failures of the Arabs and internal rivalry that lead to failures. However I cannot take anyone seriously that claims/believes that even if we won those wars, somehow Israel and Jews would disappear and the West/world would just look at it silently and do nothing.

I look at Israel as the owner who has the most powerful and dangerous dog on a leash (USA) and if that somehow does not work in an alternative world they have all the other powers in the world (Europe, Russia, India, China, every anti-Muslim out there) and the most powerful lobby in the world (Jewish).

I agree, a solution starts at home, with Palestinian political elite uniting. That is not the case currently so we are already starting while being behind 0-3 after the first half.

But acting like one won't change anything really. Will Israel somehow disappear if say all Arab regimes spoke with the same tongue? I don't think so.

What about Rabin? Did he jump out of the sky? Obviously there are significant portions of Israeli society that are in favor of a two-state solution and who are tired of living in insecurity and division. It might sound nice from afar but go talk with Jews who live in Israel and ask yourself why so many young Israelis are migrating to the West, even to Germany....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ws-leaving-europe-for-israel-is-not-an-exodus

Even taking all that into account you effectively restore relations with Israel without even resolving the Palestinian issue. It is a position of weakness. Israel has made not a single concession and Netanyahu is threatening the annexation of West Bank right now.

What restore? How can you restore something that never existed? You need to have a dialogue (there is no talk of any recognition of Israel or being allies, other than empty words of Netanyahu aimed at domestic Israeli public who are sick and tired of the conflict) but to try to solve a conflict politically you obviously need to sit down and talk just like Palestinians did with Israel under Rabin aided by Arabs, West and the international community. They were very close to reaching a deal but obviously the deep state of Israel wanted it differently and hired a fanatic to destroy the prospect of peace.

You lost thats the fact, i don't now why you are talking about other conflicts in the end you lost. 500 million lost to 9 million and that 2/3 arab won't change the fact. So 2/3 of Arabs hate Arabs?

No, losing is what the Turks in Balkan, Crimea, Central Asia experienced. Genuine genocides, losing their identity, mass deportation and actual full annexations (Crimea).

Ever heard about brother fighting brother? You are obviously not aware of your own "Turkic" history it seems. The Arabized Ottomans used to kill each other (brother killing brother) for the throne.

So what is strange about Arab JEWS being DEPORTED in the millions by ALL Arab states, later turning up in Zionist-ruled Israel, having hostile ties with Palestinian Muslims?

And actually, for a side to lose, you need to have an independent entity. Palestine as an nation state never existed in a modern form prior to 1948.

Not 9 million but well over 1 billion people. America alone (almost 350 million people) and Western Europe put together outnumber Arabs. Not even going to talk about outnumbering us on most other fields back in 1948. Us = Palestinians.

 

[anatolia]

Armenian genocide is a genocide, Palestinians were never victims of genocide. As I said, there would be no Palestinians if they wanted.

you are blind or your blood is cheap..

Turks tried their best but obviously couldn't achieve it. Same with Jews in Holocaust, genocide of a whole population is almost impossible today.

what a f do you know about turkish history ?looser g o f yourself ..

 

[Philip the Arab]

you are blind or your blood is cheap..


what a f do you know about turkish history ?looser g o f yourself ..

Are you mad because the Armenian genocide happened?

 

[Valar.]

Are you mad because the Armenian genocide happened?

No, he's mad because he's accused of something which never happened.

 

[Philip the Arab]

No, he's mad because he's accused of something which never happened.

All right buddy if you say so.

 

[HannibalBarca]

You said that Palestine was an Arab conflict and that governments/people in power, do not care about Muslim causes. So you are basically agreeing with me that Erdogan is a populist hypocrite and uses the Muslim card to gain political influence in the region like anyone else.

I don't see it on PDF. I see great hypocrisy aimed at Arabs and an absurd double standard. That is PDF of course, not the real world.

I never said anything about the majority of us supporting normalization, I wrote the exact opposite, that the majority of us live in a fantasy world where somehow Israel will disappear and we will magically defeat a nuclear armed Israel/US state just because Jews were under Arab dominance for most of recorded history and we cannot understand how come a non-warrior race (historically) has the upper hand against Palestinians. That or somehow the usual stuff of Allah (swt) will deal with it kind of logic.

I read about all those wars in detail and I am aware of the successes and failures of the Arabs and internal rivalry that lead to failures. However I cannot take anyone seriously that claims/believes that even if we won those wars, somehow Israel and Jews would disappear and the West/world would just look at it silently and do nothing.

I look at Israel as the owner who has the most powerful and dangerous dog on a leash (USA) and if that somehow does not work in an alternative world they have all the other powers in the world (Europe, Russia, India, China, every anti-Muslim out there) and the most powerful lobby in the world (Jewish).

I agree, a solution starts at home, with Palestinian political elite uniting. That is not the case currently so we are already starting while being behind 0-3 after the first half.

But acting like one won't change anything really. Will Israel somehow disappear if say all Arab regimes spoke with the same tongue? I don't think so.

What about Rabin? Did he jump out of the sky? Obviously there are significant portions of Israeli society that are in favor of a two-state solution and who are tired of living in insecurity and division. It might sound nice from afar but go talk with Jews who live in Israel and ask yourself why so many young Israelis are migrating to the West, even to Germany....

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ws-leaving-europe-for-israel-is-not-an-exodus



What restore? How can you restore something that never existed? You need to have a dialogue (there is no talk of any recognition of Israel or being allies, other than empty words of Netanyahu aimed at domestic Israeli public who are sick and tired of the conflict) but to try to solve a conflict politically you obviously need to sit down and talk just like Palestinians did with Israel under Rabin aided by Arabs, West and the international community. They were very close to reaching a deal but obviously the deep state of Israel wanted it differently and hired a fanatic to destroy the prospect of peace.

Yes, Erdogan use "Muslim" issues to advance his Agenda... I mean... Even Turks aren't blind about it... But you make it seems No ones is aware of that... That's why I pointed at ppl who will make X or Y an "Hero of Muslims"... and that's literally what a MB mov is... Some use Race to rally... Others... Culture... and Other Religion... So I also laugh when ppl point the blame on one particular Political mov... as turning it into some sort of Beast alike entity... when in the End...they are the same thing but with different names...

If Arabs would have won against Israel... They will be no Israel... or at least nothing alike of today... So I don't understand why you keep that opinion...
As for those Hoping Allah(swt) will deal with it if they can't themselves... They are right... that was a bit condescending of you... Your own life is under Allah(swt) "dealing"...

If you are that happy about normalisation... at least do it when you have an Israeli Gov in power who are willing to the 2 state solution... and not the current one... Otherwise you will give the satisfaction to Bibi to say "We did it, even with our current conditions" and therefore giving his party/ those who believe like him more power...

In the End, Normalization with Israel is a minority Concept... That few guys are trying to push it by force by using their current power as a bargain... and trying everything in their power to make the new Gen think like them...
But still they are far and far away from being a majority. Alhamdulillah.
As for the few countries who want to make it official and working as nothing happened... they will be even more isolated... by the community... That also why, they aren't jumping on it...

The Irony...is that the Israeli-Palestinian issue is among the last thing that gave us a common objective to stay in some sort of unity...

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

All I can say that when Arabs were united, and fight under one Banner they took down two of the Super Powers of that time, Ah those were the days, even reading about them today gives you goosebumps . but my response was in context to that 92.. poster as well, Arabs doesn't need to unite against Iran, Iran will die its own death slowly because Iran is doing some major ball games in the region . Few days ago, a Iranian poster outright and proudly rejected Pakistan as mediator by saying , we don't need a Mediator .. Well i Guess than we should not waste our time on a country who doesn't want peace in region or at least try to build friendly ties .
I agree, in case of KSA and Iran war, smaller countries will benefit but also many economies will be affected as KSA and Iran still very large exporter of Oils .As long as War is ongoing the Shipping lanes will be valunarable .



Time and support my friend, the Time of Jews has come and hence Allah granted them what they desire, I am sure it is one of their Tests , Jews were tested even harder than Muslims, and yet they failed all the time .. Fighting and winning right after the WW2 , when Jews were actually the center of gravity would be impossible , You know how i see it ? Well most of the current Israel Population is based on European Jews, Europeans always hate the Jews , at least most of them, so after WW2, when USA stick was on their heads to keep the Jews and protect them, they send them all to the promised land, EU don't have much Jews to worry about , and second they keep the entire ME region in a constant state of conflict, so they could never rise and challenge the EU . Its a win win for them from the way i see it .



I agree, my Disagreement is with their Zionist Ideology, the extremist's and Nationalists, rest of the Jews are from Arabs , There should be a room for Diplomatic ties, there is no harm in talking with your enemies, Even Prophet Muhammad Pbuh did made a peace treaty with Mecca . There was no result of war and hostilities which we Show for last 7+ Decades, I think the Diplomacy deserve a proper decade of its own .



Honestly, Israel is here to stay .. And may Allah prove me wrong here, but from what I can see some of the Arab States might lose their Country but Israel will stay intact .



I am not very educated on Palestinians internal resistance, I do hear from Pakistani's who work in UAE , that Palestinians , Syrian and Egyptians they don't like Pakistani's that much . Never experience its myself but people who told me have no reason to lie, one of them is my own brother who worked in UAE for over 6 years .

Sorry for the late reply, bro, as you can see I am engaged in quite a few discussion all at once. No problem. Might as well have discussions while I am here (PDF).

Anyway Iranians (people) are not our enemies. Most Arabs are just against the Arab Mullah's ruling Iran (as are millions of Iranians, recently 1000 of them were killed for protesting against their regime) and some of their foreign policy/meddling in war-torn Arab countries. This is a topic for itself. If you doubt it, just take a look at the MASSIVE anti-Iranian protests among Iraqi Shia Arabs and Lebanese Shia Arabs that have been ongoing for weeks in recent months.

The Mullah regime is on loan indeed but time will tell what the future has in store. I think that there will come a point where Arabs and Iranians will be allies again. This is not much known on PDF, but people of the GCC and Southern Iran has had close people to people relations for a very, very long time. Many intermarriages on both sides as well. Not forgetting the several million big Arab Iranian community.

I saw some videos about travelers/foreign tourists visiting KSA and was quite surprised to see the many positive Iranian comments (Youtube) and proclamations of love and also the other way around. Of course I know that there is a real world outside trolling on PDF but sometimes you need to look at the ground realities outside of PDF trolling/dick measuring contests. Many times fueled by actual non-Arabs and non-Iranians as I have witnessed many times.

I have nothing against Jews as a people at all. In fact they are clever and talented people and our cousins that we share most things in common with, even more so as 2/3 of all the Israeli Jews are Jews/Arab Jews from Arab countries.

For example this person on the right, is a Jewish Yemeni (Israeli citizenship) whose family was from the same village as the Muslim Yemeni (pilot) on the left in the video caption.

Is that person an enemy for having an Israeli passport? Not at all. I share more with him, arguably, aside from religion, than say a Muslim from Mozambique, religion aside.

Actually only 1/3 of all Israeli Jews are European Jews and intermarriages with Arab Jews are very common nowadays. Leading to a fusion in Israel. At least this is what statistics are showing and what I gathered from talking with Israelis online, here and elsewhere.

I don't think that they dislike Pakistanis (not aware of any Arab group who does that, most Arab countries have positive views of Pakistan) but Palestinians might dislike Pakistan due to the role of Pakistani soldiers in the Black September incidents in Jordan under Zia Al Haq. As for Egyptians and Syrians, some individuals might have had bad experiences with Pakistanis and remember that those groups are often competing for the same jobs. It is no different to the internal divisions/rivalries of Pakistan. You know, Punjabis hating Pashtuns and vice versa and other rivalries. There will obviously be people like that but if the majority behaved like this, Pakistan would no longer exist. So take such claims with a grain of salt. If I had known nothing about Pakistan and visited PDF the last few days, I would believe that Pakistanis hated Arabs more than anyone else but obviously this is not the reality, rather the contrary. Similarly vice versa.

 

[crankthatskunk]

Arab-Israeli alliance will cuck Turkiye

Wow, now you think Turkey is the enemy not Israel!!
What a mess.

 

[Philip the Arab]

Wow, now you think Turkey is the enemy not Israel!!
What a mess.

Lol, you would be stupid to not see Turkey overreaching directly against UAE, Libya, and Israel as well as other states.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

Yes, Erdogan use "Muslim" issues to advance his Agenda... I mean... Even Turks aren't blind about it... But you make it seems No ones is aware of that... That's why I pointed at ppl who will make X or Y an "Hero of Muslims"... and that's literally what a MB mov is... Some use Race to rally... Others... Culture... and Other Religion... So I also laugh when ppl point the blame on one particular Political mov... as turning it into some sort of Beast alike entity... when in the End...they are the same thing but with different names...

If Arabs would have won against Israel... They will be no Israel... or at least nothing alike of today... So I don't understand why you keep that opinion...
As for those Hoping Allah(swt) will deal with it if they can't themselves... They are right... that was a bit condescending of you... Your own life is under Allah(swt) "dealing"...

If you are that happy about normalisation... at least do it when you have an Israeli Gov in power who are willing to the 2 state solution... and not the current one... Otherwise you will give the satisfaction to Bibi to say "We did it, even with our current conditions" and therefore giving his party/ those who believe like him more power...

In the End, Normalization with Israel is a minority Concept... That few guys are trying to push it by force by using their current power as a bargain... and trying everything in their power to make the new Gen think like them...
But still they are far and far away from being a majority. Alhamdulillah.
As for the few countries who want to make it official and working as nothing happened... they will be even more isolated... by the community... That also why, they aren't jumping on it...

The Irony...is that the Israeli-Palestinian issue is among the last thing that gave us a common objective to stay in some sort of unity...

Well, many of our Pakistani brothers and sisters seem not to be aware of it because they are blindly following his empty rhetoric while cursing similar rhetoric from other Muslim regimes engaging in the exact same rhetoric. Let us not kid ourselves. The reason for Erdogan's popularity (while he is a president of a secular nation that allows public gay parades, where prostitution is legal, where widespread alcohol consumption is common and domestic alcohol industry, Efes should ring a few bells, Kemalist ideology behind the foundation of Turkey, NATO etc.) is due to his bombastic populist claims. Nothing else because nothing ON THE GROUND would otherwise explain it.

Hence why I am talking about hypocrisy and double standards aimed at Arabs on PDF by many users. We have seen them in action in this thread. We both know who they are. Which is why I made sure to write "like everyone else" when I said that regimes use Islam as a political tool.

No, because what we disagree with profoundly is the notion that Arabs would have been ALLOWED to somehow destroy/remove/kill all Jews while the West NEXT door would somehow look at it passively. Come on, I am sure that you do not believe this.

Yes, but you know what I am referring to. People who think that prayer alone will solve it without action. This is not how Allah (swt) intended, there is a reason why we have a free will.

I am not happy about "normalization" as long as there won't be any solution. I clearly wrote that I would only support dialogue (never actually wrote normalization, might be wrong here, it is late) IF it would lead to a political solution of the conflict that the Palestinians would be content with. I am not naive to support normalization without any strings attached. When you reach a point of normalization/dialogue/deal, all sides need to be flexible. For instance I can imagine, in case of a two-state solution or some kind of solution, that Israel would demand reparations in some form, for the millions of Arab Jews that were forced to migrate to Israel. Monetary help and I can only imagine who they would want to pay for that (KSA, GCC, lol) but I will gladly agree to that if that means a independent Palestinian state and lasting peace. Tonight if possible.

It is not. Unity is shaped by a shared history, ancestry, language, culture, people to people interaction, religion, geography etc. Everything that Arabs share with each other and more. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict existing or not, plays no role here for the vast majority of Arabs, other than rallying Arabs who care more about their religion (Islam) than their identity. Which I think is save to say, that you belong in that category. I don't judge, as I have family members (siblings included) who think no differently. For them Islam is the most important element of their identity, at least this is my impression, but obviously they don't reject their Arab identity, rather the contrary, so I don't see a conflict between those two at all, but I remember you writing it before so It must be a personal opinion which you are of course entitled to but I obviously could not disagree more.

 

[CAN_TR]

lol hardcore Arab nationalists talk about alliance with Israel which not humilate them only on the battlefield but also treated their fellow Palestinian Arab brothers like trash.

 

[anatolia]

Are you mad because the Armenian genocide happened?

look present kurds in syria(not kurds in norther iraq) big powers use small majority to achieve their goal.. .you would see why this happened to armenian...we just had smart guy in charge at that momentand saw whats coming in advance..Turks didnot touch single armenian in istanbul that time but exiled onesfrom easter Turkey who working with russian to creat their country aganist ottoman.idont defend that all armenians are bad but Turks had no choice than exile them.later in 1915 France armed armenian and attacked ottoman from syrin front.they had lost again partly......they had killed so many muslim in eastern Turkey...Ottoman just opened biggest armenian church in gaziantep just 1890s..so you figure out what a big change in short time..
just attached sample photo there is so many..

 

[gangsta_rap]

White people are the problem a la balfour decleration

 

[crankthatskunk]

Lol, you would be stupid to not see Turkey overreaching directly against UAE, Libya, and Israel as well as other states.

Yeah sure.
Therefore, if Turkey is against Israeli and SA and UAE due to their policies, it would become a common enemy!!
You pathetic idiot, get lost.