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Altay & Turkish Main Battle Tank Programs

why dont we just act like israel and russia? do you fit into our agenda/interests; try to partner with them and ditch them when they make wrong moves. Israel is just after its own interests and doesnt need Turkey at all ( we are just a bonus to them), after all it has the US and Eu on its side, thats enough. if such countries treat us like this (what israel did to us in the past is not forgotten), why Turkey needs to unconditionally ally with Israel while they show us the finger when it suits them? playing the humble boy who needs to be careful with every step to not cross Israel's path, as if Israel really cares so much about Turkey to begin with. treat them how they treat us, make deals and trade but dont trust, not because of Jewish/Israel sympathy or hatred for Arabs and Iran. imo has nothing to do with akp or any Turkish party, Israel already had this spoiled kid bully mentality in the past, but Turkey didnt notice much from it because past govts were just playing along. and now that Turkey dares to open its mouth against Israel (though Erdogan overdid at some times), Turkey suddenly has become a possible hostile country in their eyes. my 2 cents.

if that independent Kurdistan becomes reality, we shall see how Israel will become convenient best buddies with them, of that im 100% sure. you got nutjobs like Liebermann, and im sure there are many more silent like minded people like him in Israel, who openly support an independent Kurdistan and he also stated some years ago that Israel should support pkk if Turkey didnt zip its mouth.
 
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Azerbaijan makes all the strategic deals with Turkey like TANAP and Socar in Turkey.. More and more deals will go to Turkey as Turkeys influence grows at the expense of İsraels.. Yes, Azerbaijans influence also grows in Turkey with such deals and that is not a bad thing.. İsrael had a history of training KRG troops but nowadays İsrael's influence in KRG vis a vis Turkey is close to null. What Turkey says goes in KRG today.. İsrael also had a history of supporting PKK(PJAK) in İran that to blew up on their face.. Their influence in US also waning which is critical for them to project power in region. The İsrael of today with its leadership is completely reacting to the developments in the region..They don't set the agenda anymore..

The flotillas mission was to make headlines the blockade on the Gaza Strip.. İf none died would it make the noise it made on the worldstage? Some participants even filmed themselves saying they are going for a martyrdom mıssion.. They were not completely innocent you know taking hostage İsraels tier 1 sf. Hamas realizing this broadcast on the news that the flotilla did more for their cause compared to their current tactics.. recently they even agreed to form a Palestinian unity Government with PA before the escalation of İsrael... Again İsrael reacting. With that said the Jewish Nation can be a great ally for the Turkish Nation in the region and beyond if they mellowed on Palestine a 'little'. There are many strategic areas we can cooperate like gas for Turkeys growing market, joint ventures in defense industries aimed at third markets or even augmenting our respective Air Forces F-35 with partnership on developing a fighter (TFX/JFX(jew fx). Ah Netanyahu, yeter yahu..
 
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israel is clearly doing , just text to google and you will get lots of informaiton. What north iraq does is only providing bases, nothing to do with that and as you know there have been operations over there personally i dont feel good to see government is too close with them. its not north iraq regime who keeps PKK alive, its israel.

The point is azerbaijan guys claim to israel is an ally to them, while they are clearly hostile to us, dont forget how israel ally with greece (cyprus ) on seas to get us in hard situation. Each equipment we had in inventory is worrying israel , why so ? because they consider us as hostiles. when our LPD project cleared, they were telling " turkey will dominate region, should do something"


also, turkey is hostile to israel because of what they are doing against turkey . not because of some arabs.

.. no need to answer more.
 
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Stick to topic friends.
Don't bring in T-72 or elbit in to this. It has nothing to do with Altay.

And please stop writhing buy this and that. None of us is from procurement agency nore do we have any thing to say about it.

@Kaan please brother take a look in her..
 
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China seen behind Japan's failed Turkey arms deal
TETSUSHI TAKAHASHI, Nikkei deputy editor

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Prime Minister Shinzo Abe meets with his Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan in October, 2013. © Kyodo

TOKYO -- Nearly three months after lifting its long-standing arms embargo, Japan recently approved plans to supply missile parts to the U.S. and conduct joint military research with a British company. Behind the scenes, however, there was a deal that fell through.

Under new guidelines governing the transfer of defense equipment and technology, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe on July 17 convened the National Security Council to look into two applications submitted by private companies.

One was Mitsubishi Heavy Industries' request for permission to export seeker gyros used in Patriot surface-to-air missiles to the U.S. The other involved Mitsubishi Electric, which was seeking approval for joint study with U.K. missile maker MBDA to boost the accuracy of Meteor missiles for use in the F-35 stealth fighter.

Japan had in principle banned arms exports since 1976, but Abe relaxed the old guidelines in April to allow defense equipment and related technology to be shipped abroad on the condition that they can be of use to Japan's national security.

The new guidelines include three rules: Japanese weapons shall not be supplied to countries that violate United Nations resolutions and those engaged in conflicts; arms exports will be only endorsed after going through strict screening; and the transfer of equipment and technology to third countries must only happen with prior consent from Japan. The National Security Council gave the green light to the submitted requests after concluding they met the three requirements.

But "there was one more case that could have been included," a government source said. He was referring to a tank engine export deal with Turkey scrapped early this year.

Rules are rules

When Abe visited Turkey in May last year, his Turkish counterpart Recep Tayyip Erdogan requested for use of Mitsubishi Heavy's engine technology in the country's combat tanks. Turkey has been working to develop the Altay, a next-generation, indigenous battle tank. Erdogan proposed Mitsubishi Heavy set up a joint venture with a Turkish company for the production of Altay engines.

Turkey and Japan have long been on amicable terms. It is also a member of U.S.-led NATO. And Abe is personally close to Erdogan. Naturally, the Japanese leader was in favor of building defense cooperation with Turkey.

But the deal hit a wall when Ankara told Tokyo it was looking into the possibility of selling its tanks to Islamic countries, including Pakistan and Azerbaijan, which are currently engaged in conflict. Japan could not agree to such terms. Turkey would not accept the "prior consent" requirement for the transfer to third countries. The deal fell through in February. "It cannot be helped," Abe said.

20140730turkey-tank_middle_320.jpg

Turkey is developing the Altay, a next-generation tank.

Japan had another concern. "Turkey was trying to approach China to strengthen its national security," said a Japanese official familiar with talks over the Turkey deal. "That worried us."

Seeing Iran as a missile threat, Turkey announced in September that it will enter talks with China Precision Machinery Import-Export Corp. to build a missile-defense system.

The move shocked NATO, as it was preparing to build an integrated air-defense system within its members to put Russia in check. It feared Turkey's partnership with a Chinese defense contractor could cause a leakage of sensitive military information on the Western alliance.

Japan was developing similar jitters. Closer ties between Turkey and China would mean the higher risk of leaks on Japan's technology to China. A Japanese government official acknowledged that China is one reason that aborted the Turkey deal.

Sustainability threat

Japan has opened the way for arms exports as a way of bringing down costs of its defense industry. The country's defense companies have long done business only with its Self-Defense Forces. Making defense equipment is expensive. The government feared that if the SDF remained the only customer for Japanese arms manufacturers, the business would become unsustainable and eventually threaten national security.

But selling weapons in Turkey and other emerging countries is not easy. China is also stepping up its presence in these markets. It would cost Japan's security dearly if its technology is leaked to China through these countries.

This explains why the U.S. and U.K. became the first destination of Japan's arms exports under the new guidelines. "We have no doubt that they will manage Japan's technology with great care," said a senior official with the Ministry of Defense. The remark highlights a challenge Japan faces in exporting arms to emerging countries.
 
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Well they have the capacity, 75k tractor engines a year.


I think Tumosan is the best selection among candidates like Hema and BMC. They have domestic motor production brends and lots of development efforts with ITU and Tubitak. Quality of their products are appreciated by costumers. Allah helps us to develop an impressive engine family from 1500hp to 100hp to power up all platforms we need. With this way, It will be the end of dependancy on MTU or Cummins engines on our platforms.

BTW, National powerpack project contains not only development of domestic engines but also transmission system as well..
 
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I thought this National Powerpack Project is including ship engines...

Will it be easier to produce ship engines with this powerpack project ?..
 
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I thought this National Powerpack Project is including ship engines...

Will it be easier to produce ship engines with this powerpack project ?..
it will be easier to produce marine engines , since both technology works in the same way , ship engines just "a bit" larger.
But money spent on ship engine development wont worth , because it will be 10 -15 engines to purchase as required by navy ,but for tanks, the number mentioned is 500 + spare parts ,+ possible sales to foreigner countries.
I think i would hear it once at least during some seminars, about marine engines will be produced within national projects. So i can say , its not considered to produce ship engines ,for now.
its a fact , turbines are more preferable nowadays than diesel engines on ships.


National Powerpack Development

Furthermore in SSM's website ;
Objective:To nationally design, development,production powerpacks to meet the requirements of naval and land platforms,particularly tanks.
Scope:Indigenous design, development, production, test and qualification of powerpacks for use in primarily Altay Tank by maximizing the utilization of national capabilities and by enlisting technical support and assistance from abroad when required.Ultimately gaining complete know-how for powerpack design,development,system integration,production,testing,qualification,modification and maintenance.
 
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it will be easier to produce marine engines , since both technology works in the same way , ship engines just "a bit" larger.
But money spent on ship engine development wont worth , because it will be 10 -15 engines to purchase as required by navy ,but for tanks, the number mentioned is 500 + spare parts ,+ possible sales to foreigner countries.
I think i would hear it once at least during some seminars, about marine engines will be produced within national projects.
its a fact , turbines are more preferable nowadays than diesel engines on ships.

Great news... Thx...

it will be easier to produce marine engines , since both technology works in the same way , ship engines just "a bit" larger.
But money spent on ship engine development wont worth , because it will be 10 -15 engines to purchase as required by navy ,but for tanks, the number mentioned is 500 + spare parts ,+ possible sales to foreigner countries.
I think i would hear it once at least during some seminars, about marine engines will be produced within national projects.
its a fact , turbines are more preferable nowadays than diesel engines on ships.

Sure number of engines for ships will be so less when it's compared to land vehicles' engines but i think navy need more then 10-15... As i remember each big ship uses more then 1 engine... And there will be some small ships too... And most important part is indigenous ship engine will make us so powerful about exporting our Ships...

Also i'm sure our private shipyards will use indigenous engines on civilian ships... We produce so much civilian ship as you know... And they are huge in numbers...
 
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Great news... Thx...



Sure number of engines for ships will be so less when it's compared to land vehicles' engines but i think navy need more then 10-15... As i remember each big ship uses more then 1 engine... And there will be some small ships too... And most important part is indigenous ship engine will make us so powerful about exporting our Ships...

Also i'm sure our private shipyards will use indigenous engines on civilian ships... We produce so much civilian ship as you know... And they are huge in numbers...
Commercial ship production at a very low situatiton now , Designs usually handled from foreigner companies, and number of ships building at now is very low (except yachts)
High RPM engines to be utilized in Tanks wont be matching with needs in a commercial ship that needs lower RPM or at least Medium RPM , also its on choose of Shipowner to choose engine manufacturer.
That might be true for utilization in Yachts for civilian or small boats of navy. i thought this "marine engine production" in large scale to use in Frigates, corvettes or patrol ships :D so i told numbers of engine would be 10-15 .
Otherwise a 1800 HP engine directly can be used in ships. :D We are a nation that used Ex Germany Gen-sets to make some marine engines for navy ;)
 
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The Turkish Engine Industry & Trade Corporation (TÜMOSAN), in cooperation with İstanbul Technical University (İTÜ), is looking to increase its annual production of diesel engines from 75,000 to 100,000, TÜMOSAN managers announced in a press release issued on Wednesday.

TÜMOSAN manufactured Turkey's first liquefied petroleum gas (LPG)-powered diesel engine in cooperation with İTÜ's Automotive Technologies R&D Center (OTAM) and the Scientific and Technological Research Council of Turkey (TÜBİTAK) in February of 2011. According to the press release, in accelerating it efforts to ease Turkey's dependency on foreign sources in the automotive industry, TÜMOSAN recently designed Turkey's first domestically produced six-cylinder diesel engine. The first test of the prototype is scheduled to take place in August of 2014.

TÜMOSAN already manufactures 75,000 diesel engines annually at a factory in the province of Konya, but its new target for the factory is 100,000. As per the press release, as Turkey's first diesel engine manufacturer, TÜMOSAN is not only continuing its efforts to advance the quality of the diesel engines it manufactures but will produce a new type of domestic diesel engine. It is currently able to produce three- and four-cylinder diesel engines of 50-115 horsepower. The corporation plans to increase the performance of these engines to 50-135 horsepower. Its new six-cylinder diesel engine is expected to run at up to 250 horsepower.

TÜMOSAN is also working toward manufacturing 275 horsepower diesel engines for use in the agricultural sector and 450 horsepower diesel engines for the domestic automotive industry.
 
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