A Muslim majority Indus Valley Civilization?

[Rusty]

@indian_jigar

For my own amusement I decided to read the TOIlet news article and man, they are really on a mission to prove why they are called TOIlet news.

The Harvard study was done on genetic markers. Genetically speaking most people of South Asia are more related to each other then they are to other ethnic groups. That is ALL the study said.

But TOIlet news being TOIlet news decided to extrapolate that declare that there is no Sanskrit-Dravidian divide......
They are using a Genetic study to disprove a Linguistic theory....... seriously

 

[jbond197]

A big Hindu fear:- pakistanis comfortable with a pre and post islamic history, a history richer than the Hindu India narrative it has for it's own people, really hurts them.

There is nothing called Hindu India.. India is a beautiful place where many religion took birth and many more found refuge and protected so better call it India..

Well since before you converted, you were Hindus, you can claim a part of the history but Pakistani mullahs now want to own the history and in the conquest they even are ignoring the some basic rudimentary facts..

I know it's your hate for Hindus that's speaking up but I would really appreciate if you prove any of your claim, even one, with some scientific findings or historian claims or archeologist claims..

TBH, there exists none apart from Pakistanis wishful thinking, born out if identity crisis, of associating themselves with the rich ancient Indian culture..

 

[r3alist]

Well since before you converted, you were Hindus, you can claim a part of the history but Pakistani mullahs now want to own the history and in the conquest they even are ignoring the some basic rudimentary facts..

You think you are talking to a mullah here? that's what I mean by Hindu India.


History and heritage can't be borrowed like a music cd, just because one group of people said a few things doesn't make them correct or representative, but Hindu India is not averse to making friends with the mullahs when it needs to


Btw, I laugh how you think that MAYBE I was once a Hindu is meant to be a stinging hard truth, lol, most people in human history were somethingelse once upon a time. It's not my fault your resentful pathetic soul can't get over history.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

I think you are agreeing with the Indian point of view rather than disagreeing. Just like Urdu was born in UP but is adopted by Pakistan, IVC which was mostly in Pakistan (but also had significant parts in India) is adopted by India.

I agree with one Indian point of view that some Indians do descend from the IVC but not all of them. Those who descend from the IVC can claim it, but not all of them.

When did I said our discussion is over?? You are cooking up stories now.

I am not cooking up stories, I just accidentally confused you with another member.

yes, I meant Pashuati seal and that was a typo..

I posted the findings of major archeologists and I am sure they will be worth crap for Pakistani.. A reality is a tough nut to crack, after all..

Huh? What are you talking about? Based on reality, the IVC was geographically mostly in what is now Pakistan. Only a small portion of the IVC was present in India.

Again I will pose this question -

Show us one Historian/Archeologists worth his salt who would have called IVC as Pakistani. On the other hand, there are plenty who rightfully associate it with India.

Another point, since the Pakistani of the day, were Hindus back then, so they can claim their association with our history but since you decided to move away that weakened your case.. There is no connect of the practices of Indus valley civilization people and Pakistani converted muslims where as real people of the land follow more or less same practices..

As I said earlier, the reason most people associate the IVC with India is because the word "India" historically referred to the entire region of the Sub-Continent & not to a specific country.

We don't want to claim anything of your history. You can keep your history to yourself. Since many Pakistanis will logically descend from the people of the IVC, it seems logical to assume that they do have a connection with the IVC regardless of their religion.

Punjabis are not from Uttar Pradesh so that you will correlate them with American English.

Now, what are you talking about again? I did not correlate them with American English.

Mughals had Persian as court language and Urdu was born with mingling of this court language with the mother tongue of people of Uttar Pradesh. With Mughal interaction you had your own Punjabi Language in Shahmukhi Script, so North Indians don't have claim on Punjabi in Shahmukhi script and Pakistanis don't have claim over Urdu language although both areas were ruled by Mughals.

English was born in Britain, but it's spoken in the USA, Australia, & Canada. Not all the people in those parts of the world are of English descent. Yet they do have the right to claim it as their own, seeing as they do speak it as their mother tongue. Similarly, Pakistanis can claim Urdu, & we claim the ancestral language of our Indo-Aryan ancestors "Sanskrit" as well. Indians do have a claim over Urdu as well, & to some extent over Sanskrit too.

However those who descend from the Vedic Aryans have greater claim to Sanskrit than those who speak it because of religion & culture. A good example is the Arabic language, it is the religious language of Islam, thus, I can claim it as my religious language. However, I can not associate Arabic with myself completely because I am certainly not its original speaker.

 

[Cr.7]

Deleted. I'll create another thread about that.

 

[r3alist]

And you are gangetic, like most bhartis are, therefore completely irrelevant to Indus based discussions. Goodbye. (I wish).

 

[INDIC]

English was born in Britain, but it's spoken in the USA, Australia, & Canada. Not all the people in those parts of the world are of English descent. Yet they do have the right to claim it as their own, seeing as they do speak it as their mother tongue. Similarly, Pakistanis can claim Urdu, & we claim the ancestral language of our Indo-Aryan ancestors "Sanskrit" as well. Indians do have a claim over Urdu as well, & to some extent over Sanskrit too.

However those who descend from the Vedic Aryans have greater claim to Sanskrit than those who speak it because of religion & culture. A good example is the Arabic language, it is the religious language of Islam, thus, I can claim it as my religious language. However, I can not associate Arabic with myself completely because I am certainly not its original speaker.

People of Australia, United States, Canada, New Zealand all are native from United Kingdom but Punjabis or Sindhis are not from Uttar Pradesh to claim Urdu language, they have their own language.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

People of Australia, United States, Canada, New Zealand all are native from United Kingdom but Punjabis or Sindhis are not from Uttar Pradesh to claim Urdu language.

Are you sure all the people of America, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand have Anglo-Saxon heritage? You do realize that many of those nations are multicultural & multiracial?

 

[INDIC]

Are you sure all the people of America, Canada, Australia, & New Zealand have Anglo-Saxon heritage? You do realize that many of those nations are multicultural & multiracial?

And those people speak their respective mother tongue at home.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

And those people speak their respective mother tongue at home.

What about the African Americans? I don't recall them having their own specific language.

 

[INDIC]

What about the African Americans? I don't recall them having their own specific language.

They are Americanized people but Punjabis have their own language, it was only in 1900s when Punjabis started to see Urdu as their language after campaign by Muslim League.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

They are Americanized people but Punjabis have their own language, it was only in 1900s when Punjabis started to see Urdu as their language after campaign by Muslim League.

Unfortunately being Americanized does not mean that the language has become your own. Simply because they are not genetically related to the English. Based on your own point of view, African Americans have no language whatsoever.

Punjabis don't see Urdu as their own language. They already have their own language called Punjabi. The Urdu language is not the original language of any ethnic group.

 

[LogiCal]

Don't ever bring a member of my family in to your foolish examples, I swear by God if you did that in real life I will make sure you end up in a coma. I was trying to be polite in my previous posts, but you have no idea how offensive your example was, I am serious, don't ever do that again. If you want to discuss be polite & respectful, & I will answer your questions relating to Islam politely......

The English word "you' can be used as singular OR plural....
Here by saying "you", I wasn't referring to you individually....I used it in a Plural sense...

We never killed our forefathers, had we done that, we wouldn't exist. Go ask your stupid questions to other Muslims who taught you such stupid things......

Ha Ha....how can you kill your own forefather.......you didn't get my logic as you thought I was referring to you individually...

What I tried to explain was......

Firstly, IF you claim to be descendants of the IVC people then you have to keep in mind that the followers of the religion you are following killed your non-Muslim ancestors....
Now, everyone cannot be killed.....your ancestor might have been among the lucky ones escaped.....this explains your existence....

Secondly, IF you DO NOT claim to be descendants of the IVC people, then your ancestors(Persians, Moghuls etc) were directly involved in killing the IVC people.......this again explains your existence....

Either way, you cannot claim the achievements of IVC.....
In the First case...you have adopted a religion whose followers killed your ancestors and destroyed IVC.....
In the Second case....you ancestors were among the killers of the IVC people...


P.S: all 'you' and 'your' used above are in PLURAL sense.......

 

[indian_jigar]

Unfortunately being Americanized does not mean that the language has become your own. Simply because they are not genetically related to the English. Based on your own point of view, African Americans have no language whatsoever.

Punjabis don't see Urdu as their own language. They already have their own language called Punjabi. The Urdu language is not the original language of any ethnic group.

Urdu does belong mostly to Indian Muslims mostly from the UP/Bihar/Delhi area, what you guys call Mohajirs in your country. Bangladeshis had Bengali, Pakistanis had Punjabi/Sindhi/Pashto/Balochi.

 

[INDIC]

Punjabis don't see Urdu as their own language. They already have their own language called Punjabi. The Urdu language is not the original language of any ethnic group.

That's not true.