A Muslim majority Indus Valley Civilization?

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The same way a Balochi like yourself that has nothing to do with Urdu can claim Urdu.

I was taught tht urdu is our national language... my mother tongue is baluchi..

As i said common logic is not common in india...

 

[indian_jigar]

I was taught tht urdu is our national language... my mother tongue is baluchi..

As i said common logic is not common in india...

And how does it become YOUR national language? What do Balochis have to do at all with Urdu? How can you call it your national language?

 

[INDIC]

I don't care about Indians studying Sanskrit, like I said earlier, I have never met an Indian that spoke Sanskrit.

Urdu developed under the Mughal Empire & has contributions made to it from every portion of the Sub-Continent. In any case we do have our ethnic provincial languages.

It was not till 1900s Urdu was propagated as language of subcontinent Muslims by Muslim league otherwise contribution to Urdu language is mostly from North India. We Indians also have English writers doesn't make English as Indian language. The fact will always remain Urdu is from Ganga Valley and you can't claim this language if you are Muslim from Punjab or Sindh.

 

[Rusty]

Nazis had Lord Shiva,Pashupatinath and Rudra's statues too?

Just google the 'religion in IVC'.

Exactly! You're clarifying my point for me! All the north Indian languages (Indo-Aryan languages) are derived from Sanskrit. All of them are derivation of Sanskrit/Prakrit (language of Aryans).

Substratum in Vedic Sanskrit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bronze Age India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and Sanskrit came after IVC. So where is the confusion?
You can, and should claim heritage from the Aryan invaders since they conquered all of North India.
But you had nothing to do with IVC.

 

[jbond197]

That must be why Pakistani cuisine is so full of delicious delicious beef

Man You guys didn't even invent roti
Roti came from Iran.
How can you say such silly thing?
Your indigenous cousin is the one from South Asia, where you eat on Banana leaves.

Another BS taught to Pakistanis. What's the proof? Is it also mentioned in some book?

 

[indian_jigar]

and Sanskrit came after IVC. So where is the confusion?
You can, and should claim heritage from the Aryan invaders since they conquered all of North India.
But you had nothing to do with IVC.

You are completely wrong to begin with, Aryan-Dravidian theory has been disproven by scientists. But for the sake of argument lets say this:

Assuming your argument is correct, are you telling me that present day Pakistanis are offsprings of Dravidian Indus Valley people? Is that why Pakistan has a better claim on IVC than the "Aryan" North Indian invaders?

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

As i said, history got nothing to do with the recent Political events. Also I mentioned before there is more to IVC then two cities. Apart from that look at the findings at the sites, the existence of Swastika, Shiva/Pashuathy, Mother goddess, Stone lingams from Mohenzodharo etc proves the connect with the people of other area of the lands of Ancient India.

Normal IVC town were divided into 2 parts.
(1) Raised citadel- meant for elite, rulers dwellings.
(2) Lower town- common people lived.

Dholavira is the only Indus city with 3 parts- Middle town was extra feature.

Kotdiji, Amri, Harappa, Kalibangan and Banwali are associated with Pre-Harappan.

Harappa, Mohenzodharo, Kalibangan, Lothal - Matured Phase of civilization.

Rangpur, Rojdi, Rakhigarhi, -later phase.

People lived there and moved to other places or perished due to rivers drying up and the civilization collapsed in 1900 BC. The continuity of the practices of people does show a huge connect between the people of the land..

Also, show us one Historian/Archeologists worth his salt who would have said IVC is Pakistani. On the other hand, there are plenty who rightfully associate it with India.

I thought you said our discussion was over. You wasted your time posting this crap. What is "pashuathy"? Don't you mean the "pashupati" seal?

It was not till 1900s Urdu was propagated as language of subcontinent Muslims by Muslim league otherwise contribution to Urdu language is mostly from North India. We Indians also have English writers doesn't make English as Indian language. The fact will always remain Urdu is from Ganga Valley and you can't claim this language if you are Muslim from Punjab or Sindh.

The Mughal Empire ruled over what is now Pakistan as well. There was no point of bringing English in to the discussion, people from what is now Pakistan did contribute to the development of the Urdu language. The English language today naturally belongs to its ethnic speakers, however, who are the ethnic speakers of Urdu? If you wan't to claim Urdu, go ahead, I don't care. Pakistanis already have our own provincial languages anyway.

Many Americans speak English even if they aren't of English descent, does it mean that it isn't their language?

 

[Rusty]

You are completely wrong to begin with, Aryan-Dravidian theory has been disproven by scientists. But for the sake of argument lets say this:

Assuming your argument is correct, are you telling me that present day Pakistanis are offsprings of Dravidian Indus Valley people? Is that why Pakistan has a better claim on IVC than the "Aryan" North Indian invaders?

Which scientist? care to name any?
I am merely regurgitating my western, unbiased, and objective education.
The rest of the world accepts the Aryan invasion, the Indo-European language and the fact that India has 2 language groups. Sanskrit in the north and Dravidian in the south.

Yes
IVC was pure Dravidian, but once the Aryans came we mixed blood and culture. But we still claim IVC b/c it was the civilization of our forefathers.

 

[indian_jigar]

I thought you said our discussion was over. You wasted your time posting this crap. What is "pashuathy"? Don't you mean the "pashupati" seal?



The Mughal Empire ruled over what is now Pakistan as well. There was no point of bringing English in to the discussion, people from what is now Pakistan did contribute to the development of the Urdu language. The English language today naturally belongs to its ethnic speakers, however, who are the ethnic speakers of Urdu? If you wan't to claim Urdu, go ahead, I don't care. Pakistanis already have our own provincial languages anyway.

Many Americans speak English even if they aren't of English descent, does it mean that it isn't their language?

I think you are agreeing with the Indian point of view rather than disagreeing. Just like Urdu was born in UP but is adopted by Pakistan, IVC which was mostly in Pakistan (but also had significant parts in India) is adopted by India.

 

[jbond197]

I thought you said our discussion was over. You wasted your time posting this crap. What is "pashuathy"? Don't you mean the "pashupati" seal?

When did I said our discussion is over?? You are cooking up stories now.

yes, I meant Pashuati seal and that was a typo..

I posted the findings of major archeologists and I am sure they will be worth crap for Pakistani.. A reality is a tough nut to crack, after all..

Again I will pose this question -

Show us one Historian/Archeologists worth his salt who would have called IVC as Pakistani. On the other hand, there are plenty who rightfully associate it with India.

Another point, since the Pakistani of the day, were Hindus back then, so they can claim their association with our history but since you decided to move away that weakened your case.. There is no connect of the practices of Indus valley civilization people and Pakistani converted muslims where as real people of the land follow more or less same practices..

 

[indian_jigar]

Which scientist? care to name any?
I am merely regurgitating my western, unbiased, and objective education.
The rest of the world accepts the Aryan invasion, the Indo-European language and the fact that India has 2 language groups. Sanskrit in the north and Dravidian in the south.

Yes
IVC was pure Dravidian, but once the Aryans came we mixed blood and culture. But we still claim IVC b/c it was the civilization of our forefathers.

For the bolded part, I dont think you noticed the flags I have. I am sure Engineering in University of Waterloo is a much higher level of Academia than whatever Arts degree you are getting from Sheridan College.

You are far from unbiased. As for sources, would a special western, unbiased and objective source from a Harvard do? Because thats exactly what I have for you.

Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study - Times Of India

 

[r3alist]

A big Hindu fear:- pakistanis comfortable with a pre and post islamic history, a history richer than the Hindu India narrative it has for it's own people, really hurts them.

 

[Rusty]

You are far from unbiased. As for sources, would a special western, unbiased and objective source from a Harvard do? Because thats exactly what I have for you.

Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study - Times Of India

I never said I am unbiased, I said my education was unbiased since it was not run by Indian coo coos.
And I am sorrry, but an article from TOIlet news is not going to change my mind.
I don't claim to be smarter then anyone else, but i will say that I have actually done university courses on this and all of it point to Sanskrit Dravidian divide.

Of course for you it's an emotional issue and no amount of evidence will change your mind.

 

[indian_jigar]

A big Hindu fear:- pakistanis comfortable with a pre and post islamic history, a history richer than the Hindu India narrative it has for it's own people, really hurts them.

The big Hindu fear: Pakistanis claiming to be Indian, by first claiming IVC, and now even pretending to be Indian in foreign countries.

Pakistanis | STOP pretending as Indians in America after Mumbai Terrorist Attacks, Time Sq Plot.mp4 - YouTube

 

[INDIC]

The Mughal Empire ruled over what is now Pakistan as well. There was no point of bringing English in to the discussion, people from what is now Pakistan did contribute to the development of the Urdu language. The English language today naturally belongs to its ethnic speakers, however, who are the ethnic speakers of Urdu? If you wan't to claim Urdu, go ahead, I don't care. Pakistanis already have our own provincial languages anyway.

Many Americans speak English even if they aren't of English descent, does it mean that it isn't their language?

Punjabis are not from Uttar Pradesh so that you will correlate them with American English.

Mughals had Persian as court language and Urdu was born with mingling of this court language with the mother tongue of people of Uttar Pradesh. With Mughal interaction you had your own Punjabi Language in Shahmukhi Script, so North Indians don't have claim on Punjabi in Shahmukhi script and Pakistanis don't have claim over Urdu language although both areas were ruled by Mughals.