A few Siachen facts and bluffs!

[Capt.Popeye]

As long as "Mohibul Watani" exists, and the grass in plentiful to eat.

The 'Gaddi' can even be made to run on water maybe...... but on grass ??

.....because the Pakistanis are tired of telling the lie that they are on Siachen? A withdrawal without having to mark the AGPL will shortly be turned in their speak to, "we had all of the Siachen glacier in our hands..."

Till then:

"ISLAMABAD: The Chairman of the Senate Defence Committee, Mushahid Hussain Sayed, has criticised the Indian military establishment for sabotaging all efforts for peace in Siachen.

India, he said, had consistently rejected all proposals made by Pakistan for peace in Siachen, even in the aftermath of the Giyari tragedy.

He was addressing the troops during a visit to Siachen along with members of the committee."

Indian visa...?

Uh....oh.... so he is like the Good Ol' Duke of York (in that old poem by Walter de la Mare) trying to march his men up the hill; but were neither up nor down............... finally....

Even Kommandu Musharrafff tried that..... as a Brigadier (in Siachen) and then as a General (in Kargil) but only got himself rendered "Commando" (in current argot) for all his strenuous exertions.....

 

[SQ8]

The 'Gaddi' can even be made to run on water maybe...... but on grass ?? .

The grass is tall and well fed of human emotions and religious opium. The day India can match that supply is when the issues will truly end... at least the religious opium bit is in high gear in India these days.. so perhaps final "victory" in Kashmir is not far off.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The grass is tall and well fed of human emotions and religious opium. The day India can match that supply is when the issues will truly end... at least the religious opium bit is in high gear in India these days.. so perhaps final "victory" in Kashmir is not far off.

I don't worry yet. The "paise ka opium" is still growing better and faster than "religious opium" in my 'neck of the woods'.

Just that the Farmers have make a big noise hoping to sell their produce in the Bazaar. But the common folks find out soon enough the 'real taste' of it all. Can never change that fact......

 

[Abingdonboy]

Since the thread where we were discussing India-Pakistan wars is closed, I decided to bring the discussion here on my thread where we could discuss all about Siachen.

A few Siachen facts and bluffs!
Siachen timeline
View attachment 224315

1) Siachen was NOT Pakistani land. And the critical date is not 1984 but July 29, 1949, when the Cease-Fire Line Agreement was signed in Karachi by India and Pakistan and the UN Military Observer Group. CFL clearly says that anything “thence north to the glaciers”belongs to Pakistan( this means the area above the glacier). But the area above NJ9842 remained not demarcated as it was an elevated glaciated region.

2) CFL was revalidated as the LoC after Simla, and it incorporated the military gains made by either side in J&K in the 1971 war. In the Kargil-Siachen sector, all gains went entirely to India which acquired the Turtok salient just south-west of NJ 9842.

3) why were there no protests from Pakistan's side in 1956 (through 58) when an Indian scientific team led by the Geological Survey explored the upper Nubra and Shyok Valleys, mapped and measured the Siachen and other glaciers and publicly recorded its findings???

4) All Pakistan, UN and global atlases depicted the CFL correctly till around 1967-72. But the idea to expand eastwards struck when, between 1967 and 1972 the US Defence Mapping Agency made a cartographic error by extending the CFL from NJ 9842 to a point just west of the Karakoram Pass.

4) One look at the geography would help anyone comprehend why Pakistan desired Siachen; direct access to China was the main objective.
View attachment 224303


Perhaps a zoomed out map would make the picture (and intention more clear)

View attachment 224304


Rest they say is history.....

The topic is open for debate

@OrionHunter @Abingdonboy @thesolar65 @SpArK @nair @SarthakGanguly @SrNair @kurup @MilSpec and others...

Truly great work @levina!

 

[SQ8]

I don't worry yet. The "paise ka opium" is still growing better and faster than "religious opium" in my 'neck of the woods'.

Just that the Farmers have make a big noise hoping to sell their produce in the Bazaar. But the common folks find out soon enough the 'real taste' of it all. Can never change that fact......

As it all comes down to the idea that the subcontinent is simply just well fed. They have yet to experience the famine and utter hopelessness that the west(or even China) through before they got to where they are today.

 

[nForce]

As it all comes down to the idea that the subcontinent is simply just well fed. They have yet to experience the famine and utter hopelessness that the west(or even China) through before they got to where they are today.

Or a war ? a big one perhaps ?

All those countries that were totally destroyed and devastated by Second World war are the leading nations now.

There is this funny interpretation of Bhagwad Gita, where Arjuna asks Krishna, "Why are we having this war ?"
And Krishna answers, "We are going to have this war because war is necessary in order to have peace. There has to be destruction so that we can have new construction"..

I personally prefer zombie apocalypse though.

 

[SQ8]

Or a war ? a big one perhaps ?

All those countries that were totally destroyed and devastated by Second World war are the leading nations now.

There is this funny interpretation of Bhagwad Gita, where Arjuna asks Krishna, "Why are we having this war ?"
And Krishna answers, "We are going to have this war because war is necessary in order to have peace. There has to be destruction so that we can have new construction"..

I personally prefer zombie apocalypse though.

The chinese had their wars and Mao's stupid decisions. Perhaps that is what the subcontinent does need.. maybe on a nuclear scale?
Although what is more likely is a massive natural disaster either via the sea or the Himalayas settling in.

 

[nForce]

The chinese had their wars and Mao's stupid decisions. Perhaps that is what the subcontinent does need.. maybe on a nuclear scale?
Although what is more likely is a massive natural disaster either via the sea or the Himalayas settling in.

I hate things going towards nuclear winter. Effects are too long term. I have given it a lot of thought, zombie apocalypse is the best. It will control the population explosion, no stigmas attached to shooting them. It can be controlled and regulated too. It will unite all the warring nations for a common cause. It does not have any religion card. It does not cause any large scale destruction of property, the survivors can pick up from where they had left. It does not have long-term effects. Lots of other salient features I can think about.hehehe

 

[Shan-e-ibrahim]

View attachment 224428

How does this one look ?

Just divide that speed by 8 and thats what you get. I told you my download speed.

 

[Shan-e-ibrahim]

cheap shot
this disco has nothing to do with internet speed.... that guy lives in Germany.


no my friend it wont be a stalemate.... world rates our armed forces higher than you. we are not only stronger in military terms much stronger economically... If at all a conflict is raised India comes out victorious in all possible ways (geo, Political, diplomatic and economically)... and coming to your comment "eating better than you".... HDI and poverty is worse in pak than India.... it was like that the last time i checked not long ago.... care to check!!!!!!!!

All your geopolitical etc things fail when you don t get back your land.

i said we cross loc whenever we want we stay in yr land and after seize fire go back. We dont respect your loc any more. Your all efforts are lost when you try to show the world that you are obidient. You never gain any territory in your military scenarios.

Have you seen what russia did in crimea, thats called as power and successful adventure. Unlike your failed stale mate kargil. You gained nothing, only got back what is yours in yourside of loc. Hahaha man, you guys are so funny.

Whe you will grow up a little more then may be you will understand how budget works.

Kashmir and the insurgency there had nothing to do with India's development. Well, only the local Kashmiris suffered to some extent due to their own mistakes, something that they realize nowadays.

India never spent a penny more than the allocated


Indian would have developed faster and process would have started much earlier had there been no sanctions. Pakisstan never had any role to play in any of these, for it's too big. Just to give you an idea, the entire Federal budget of Pakistan is equivalent to only the defence budget of India.

excuses dont work well here. Pakistan has been able to keep you people busy in your internal differences, cast, religion, region. Hence you think less about innovative overal developments and think more towards regional developmentwrt to caste and religion.

just compare old delhi and new delhi, compare sharanpur and amethi, compare health facilities.

Much poor than ours in terms of basic. But what we have it works for 19 crores. Unlike your 120 crore miserable people, fighting every day with each other out of jealousy and poor facilities and low quality of life.

so next time give little more gas when your soldiers fightin kargil, dont dissapoint them and frustrate them with high class diplomatic visit favoring stalemate once again lol. Man you guys are missing mauryans lol.

We consider whole Pakistan INDIAN LAND illegally occupied by (you know who) of ARABS.

Then what bit you during kargil war when olitical leadership failed to gain territory inside Azad Kashmir. Useless. Stale mate zindabad lol. You have no spines.
We will attack again, will walk on your territorry and after seize fire go back and you will remain telling us rules lol. This is what you 120 crore Indians can do maximum.

Well....some effect.... Internet speed seemed the only reasonable point to make to his statement.

You are bring rogue argument of legitimacy in kashmir. If you are able to hold the territory it's yours if not it's others. This is the best rule.

 

[nForce]

excuses dont work well here. Pakistan has been able to keep you people busy in your internal differences, cast, religion, region. Hence you think less about innovative overal developments and think more towards regional developmentwrt to caste and religion.

You are a family entertainer, quite a gem!!

So, please enlighten us about these things that Pakistan has been doing. What all things it has been doing and how effective they have been and how can one measure that ?

just compare old delhi and new delhi, compare sharanpur and amethi, compare health facilities.

How about we compare Karachi and Mumbai ?

Much poor than ours in terms of basic. But what we have it works for 19 crores. Unlike your 120 crore miserable people, fighting every day with each other out of jealousy and poor facilities and low quality of life.

In terms of what ?

so next time give little more gas when your soldiers fightin kargil, dont dissapoint them and frustrate them with high class diplomatic visit favoring stalemate once again lol. Man you guys are missing mauryans lol.

According to the Pakistani PM Nawaz Sharif, about 4000 Pakistani soldiers were killed in Kargil, mostly by the Indian Artillery. You wanted some more ? Why don't you drop a letter to the relevant authorities ?

 

[Shan-e-ibrahim]

You are a family entertainer, quite a gem!!

So, please enlighten us about these things that Pakistan has been doing. What all things it has been doing and how effective they have been and how can one measure that ?

How about we compare Karachi and Mumbai ?

In terms of what ?


According to the Pakistani PM Nawaz Sharif, about 4000 Pakistani soldiers were killed in Kargil, mostly by the Indian Artillery. You wanted some more ? Why don't you drop a letter to the relevant authorities ?

Did you personally see the body of 4000 soldiers of Pak army, or 1000 soldiers of Indian army?

To get enlighten join your intelligence, and find it out yourself you will see the horror.

Yeah go on, compare karachi and mumbai .. don't forget to add Dharavi also . Okay.

Our medical facilities are sufficient for 19 crores.

 

[nForce]

Did you personally see the body of 4000 soldiers of Pak army, or 1000 soldiers of Indian army?

You may ask that question to the Pakistani Prime Minister. He gave the figures. You don't have faith on your own PM ?

To get enlighten join your intelligence, and find it out yourself you will see the horror.

So you work in some intelligence organization ? Aww.. cmon, tell us some stories..

Yeah go on, compare karachi and mumbai .. don't forget to add Dharavi also . Okay.

1. You understand what UNDP is ?
Dharavi not Asia's largest slum, it is Karachi: UNDP

2. GDP of Mumbai is at least 3 times more than that of Karachi.
List of cities by GDP

Our medical facilities are sufficient for 19 crores.

Why do Pakistanis keep coming to India for medical treatment then ?

 

[Shan-e-ibrahim]

You may ask that question to the Pakistani Prime Minister. He gave the figures. You don't have faith on your own PM ?


So you work in some intelligence organization ? Aww.. cmon, tell us some stories..

1. You understand what UNDP is ?
Dharavi not Asia's largest slum, it is Karachi: UNDP

2. GDP of Mumbai is at least 3 times more than that of Karachi.
List of cities by GDP

Why do Pakistanis keep coming to India for medical treatment then ?

This thread is about siachen, not your economic failed adventures. And FYI Karachi has only one slum much smaller than Dharavi, which is Orangi town. that's all. This is the place where Indian agents stay.

 

[nForce]

This thread is about siachen, not your economic failed adventures. And FYI Karachi has only one slum much smaller than Dharavi, which is Orangi town. that's all. This is the place where Indian agents stay.

I knew you will run when presented with facts.Not fifteen minutes ago, you were quite eager to compare Karachi with Mumbai.

And FYI Karachi has only one slum much smaller than Dharavi, which is Orangi town. that's all. This is the place where Indian agents stay

That's why I asked you, whether you understand what UNDP is or not, and quoted the report which clearly says Orangi town has become bigger than Dharavi, while Karachi is three times smaller than Mumbai in terms of GDP. Any problem with your comprehension power ?

And finally, you want to talk about Siachen...Well go through the posts by Bang Galore and levina and the others in this thread. They have pretty much nailed it.