27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[Mentee]

I personally think the fact that the IAF fired a few missiles in the wilderness at least to me was intentional. The idea wss that it would serve their cause and because there had been no loss of lives on Pakistani side we will not have enough of an excuse to retaliate

Sir, militaries are paid and maintained to defend and fight regardless of the nature and intensity of the enemy strike, not to find excuses on behalf of the enemy to avoid a war, period! And Iam glad that the people at the top didn't give in and took the fight to Indian mainland.

BTW as per the military academy syllabus how many Pakistani deaths by what Indian weapons finally constitute an act of war ?

 

[araz]

Sir, militaries are paid and maintained to defend and fight regardless of the nature and intensity of the enemy strike, not to find excuses on behalf of the enemy to avoid a war, period! And Iam glad that the people at the top didn't give in and took the fight to Indian mainland.

BTW as per the military academy syllabus how many Pakistani deaths by what Indian weapons finally constitute an act of war ?

The indian strike was not a military campaign but a moronic attempt by politicians to establish a narrative to direct attention away from the Kashmir issue. Whether the military considers it an attack or not is irrelevent in this case as there are international politics at play here as well and the decision making reins are very much in the hands of the politicians. While Nawaz Shareef and Zardari buckled under Imran took an stand and stood by his forces. You in my view are failing to see the multidimensionality of modern day warfare. This is why we are trading posts. Please understand that even though the forces were involved the motives and designs on both sides were political. This needs to be understood and agreed otherwise we need to agree to disagree and move on.
Kind regards
A

 

[Trango Towers]

Hi,

I will dig into my post one more time and want to bring you guys attention to what every one including myself had missed earlier---.

Paf pilot flying on a combat mission should not call back home or to the flight commander and seek permission to engage enemies locked on target.

So---when this happened---it meant that the Paf had not discussed enemy aircraft contact and had no contingency plan in place to what would happen if multiple enemy aircraft were locked on within range---.

Looking at the mission profile and engagement---it gets clearer that it was a strike mission with all the drama and show included and the procedure used was where the real focus was---.

It seems that during the pre flight briefing the Paf pilots did not have a free hand at what to engage and what not to and niether did the AVM flying back seat in the mission---.

If it had been decided before hand---neither the pilots needed to call the AVM and nor the AVM had to call home to her husband to get permission.

And people talking about this FAILURE of an AVM and making his case to be the next air chief should stop doing that---.

Here we go....so now Mastankhan who left pakistan to do a menial job in the states should now run PAF operations. Wa he wah

 

[TheTallGuy]

@MastanKhan @Trango Towers
What we seem to give little or no importance is JF17 Block 2 engagement with IAF Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2s. it was a water shed moment of huge proportions...i cant help try put emphasis on the engagement...lot of people have no idea how important and turning point of whole skirmish it was.
Yet people choose to ignore it...Su-30MKI was a big achievement....but Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2 well it was the best western equipment flying in IAF.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir, militaries are paid and maintained to defend and fight regardless of the nature and intensity of the enemy strike, not to find excuses on behalf of the enemy to avoid a war, period! And Iam glad that the people at the top didn't give in and took the fight to Indian mainland.BTW as per the military academy syllabus how many Pakistani deaths by what Indian weapons finally constitute an act of war ?

Hi,

Thank you for your post---. People want to hide behind excuses---.

India had already declared war when they openly stated that they will target locations in pakistan at a time & place of their chosing---.

When they struck targets in pakistan thru air strikes---that became an act of war---.

When they declared 350 children / students killed---those became casualties of war---.

 

[The Raven]

@araz completely agree with your arguments. The indians have effectively shot themselves in the foot with their charade of a surgical strike, because it has already set the precedent for any future attempt by them. We have already demonstrated that we will respond, no mater what the effect of any action from their side, and check-mated them. Any episode similar to last year will risk escalation, because the precedent has been set. That's why I think the indians will probably not respond similar to last year under a false flag, or if they do, it will be with Brahmos rather than their airforce.

 

[araz]

@MastanKhan @Trango Towers
What we seem to give little or no importance is JF17 Block 2 engagement with IAF Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2s. it was a water shed moment of huge proportions...i cant help try put emphasis on the engagement...lot of people have no idea how important and turning point of whole skirmish it was.
Yet people choose to ignore it...Su-30MKI was a big achievement....but Mirage 2000-5 Mk 2 well it was the best western equipment flying in IAF.

I dont know whether these M2ks were upgraded to M2K5 standard or not. Personally feel they are not but happy for you to confirm that not to be the case. Please confirm. Once confirmed we can move on.
Regards
A

@araz completely agree with your arguments. The indians have effectively shot themselves in the foot with their charade of a surgical strike, because it has already set the precedent for any future attempt by them. We have already demonstrated that we will respond, no mater what the effect of any action from their side, and check-mated them. Any episode similar to last year will risk escalation, because the precedent has been set. That's why I think the indians will probably not respond similar to last year under a false flag, or if they do, it will be with Brahmos rather than their airforce.

Thank you for your post. I feel people have not looked at it in the wider context of modern day warfare and how a concerted media campaign is very much a part of it. For instance how do you know within 15 to 30 mins of the twin towers being attacked that it was OBL who ordered them. However a premise needed to be set for an action and when a big power sets it no one dares to disagree. In Indian case they set the premise correctly however botched up the action, cackhanded military counteraction, and political and media counternarrative. This on top of release of Abhinandan via national assembly announcement by the PM was so sublimely executed it baffled the whole world with its grace and poise. I cannot remember a moment in recent history of such mammoth proportions where a counternarrative has so comprehensively negated years of work carried out to build it. It was like a house of cards coming down. It still makes me go SubhanAllah how Allah izza wa jal has crushed the face of deceit and made the ungodly laughing stock in front of their own supporters.
You have the russian ambassador requesting that we dont play up the loss of the MKI, the US patting our backs for such exquisite demonstration of the use of C5s and the EU dumbfounded and helpless but to appreciate how comprehensive this victory was. This in my view was the true scope of our victory granted to us by Allah izza wa jal as only He jala jalalahu can grant to his slaves.
A

 

[TheTallGuy]

I dont know whether these M2ks were upgraded to M2K5 standard or not. Personally feel they are not but happy for you to confirm that not to be the case. Please confirm. Once confirmed we can move on.
Regards
A

let me give a background from Kaiser Tufail article "At 0130 hours (all times PST), on the morning of 26 February, a flight of sixteen IAF Mirage 2000 took off from their home base, Gwalior. The strike element in the formation included six Mirage 2000H armed with one 900 kg Israeli-origin Spice 2000 bomb each, and four Mirage 2000H (out of the originally planned six) armed with one Israeli-origin Crystal Maze[1] missile each. Six upgraded Mirage 2000I, each armed with six MICA air-to-air missiles, escorted the strike package. The Mirage 2000s, which had to traverse a distance of 1,000 km from Gwalior, were supported midway by an Il-78 in-flight refuelling tanker. One Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEWCS) aircraft provided surveillance support to the strike package."

out these six Mirage 2000Is (aka -5 Mk 2) landed at Pathankot AFB and were on CAP North of Pir Panjal range in morning of 27th Feb-19

 

[TsAr]

ROEs still need to be followed. We need to ensure that in peace time we have a logical excuse acceptable the world over to shoot those planes down. If they had been stupid enough to send 10 down into our air space we would have shot 10 of them . The problem was that even though we had them in our sights(metaphorically) they were inside indian air space so it was not feasible to shoot them down. It needs to be understood that there are multiple facets of a war. There is the actual war and then other tactical campaigns like media wars. I need not explain our current poor showing on the media front although there has been marked upsurge since Imran Khan take over. There is also the FATF support which we mayjave lost if we had lost the media campaign. So It needs to be pointed out that we scored an ace on all fronts giving the Indians no chance other than go winging to the US about a C5 shrapnel taken out of a fallen plane's backside. This is why 27/02 was so sublimely beautiful on so many fronts. We absolutely killed them by releasing Abhinandan after serving him some fantastic tea. It shut everyone up as well as left the Indians no chance to go on a media rampage and get credible support. It was a total and utter victory gifted to the Paklands nation by it airwar heroes.
Regards
A


Let him be happy at how his airmen dogded the imaginary AMRAAMS. Let the poor guy have some saving grace. It is like a man who has bee beaten silly but when asked how he is says "forget all that did you see how I dodged his left hook?" OK Bhai Suriya we fired 50 AMRAAMS and you dodged all of them. Great work. I few more Veer chakras to your airmen please. You have the greatest air force in the world which has made AMRAAM dodging an art.
A
A

Very well written and explained....The beauty about 27Feb was that we gave a bloody nose to the adversary and also kept the whole world happy and averted war....

 

[Mentee]

Whether the military considers it an attack or not is irrelevent in this case as there are international politics at play

You in my view are failing to see the multidimensionality of modern day warfare

Fair enough, so if an enemy aircraft /ground /naval forces intrude into Pak territory the soldier responsible, trained, and paid for the defence of the country must not pull the trigger before assessing the bigger geopolitical picture, intention of the enemy, asking for the permission to engage from political leadership and of course be considerate of the feelings of some international human rights organizations, right?


But the problem is by the time he takes all those cautionary steps and double checks them the enemy might have already wrecked havoc on Pakistanis and Iam also not sure that they teach passive diplomatic theories of the highest order like that in any other military academy across the globe.


On a side not are there still any serving officers left who share your mind set?

When they declared 350 children / students killed---those became casualties of war---.

God forbid if those war casualties claimed by the iaf actually turned out to be real and the body count included "someone's" near and dear ones, the war trumpet would have first been blown by these same goodie good Samaritans.

 

[Nomad40]

Whenever there is a terrorist attack on our soil, they (Pakistan) should be worried and they were rightly worried. They have to stop abetting terrorism in India if they have to get out of these worries."

"If the situation demands so, of course, Indian Air Force is ready 24x7," he said when asked if his Force was ready to take out any terrorist camp or launchpad across the Line of Control in Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

Speaking to news agency ANI, the IAF chief, when asked about the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) increasing its patrols over fear of a retaliation by India after the Handwara encounter, said that Pakistan was ‘rightly’ worried and it should be worried whenever there’s a terror attack on Indian soil, adding that in order to get rid of these worries, it will first have to stop abetting terrorism.



These are the statements of Indian Air chief Bhadoria

 

[Suriya]

Let him be happy at how his airmen dogded the imaginary AMRAAMS. Let the poor guy have some saving grace. It is like a man who has bee beaten silly but when asked how he is says "forget all that did you see how I dodged his left hook?" OK Bhai Suriya we fired 50 AMRAAMS and you dodged all of them. Great work. I few more Veer chakras to your airmen please. You have the greatest air force in the world which has made AMRAAM dodging an art.
A
A

imaginary AMRAAMS ?? LOL


I mean is there even a whip of evidence out there that Pakistan shot down an Indian Su30??

 

[Nomad40]

imaginary AMRAAMS ?? LOL


I mean is there even a whip of evidence out there that Pakistan shot down an Indian Su30??

Our air force Come on Tv and International documentary and stated exactly what happened on that day. On the Other hand your country is farting left and right.

BTW whats the Weather like in Gilgit-baltistan.

[QUOTE="Mirage Battle Commander, post: 12339141, member: 198067"]Whenever there is a terrorist attack on our soil, they (Pakistan) should be worried and they were rightly worried. They have to stop abetting terrorism in India if they have to get out of these worries."

"If the situation demands so, of course, Indian Air Force is ready 24x7," he said when asked if his Force was ready to take out any terrorist camp or launchpad across the Line of Control in Pakistan occupied Kashmir.

Speaking to news agency ANI, the IAF chief, when asked about the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) increasing its patrols over fear of a retaliation by India after the Handwara encounter, said that Pakistan was ‘rightly’ worried and it should be worried whenever there’s a terror attack on Indian soil, adding that in order to get rid of these worries, it will first have to stop abetting terrorism.



These are the statements of Indian Air chief Bhadoria

Hi,

WTF does that mean---. Reeks of treason against the state---.[/QUOTE]
I dont know hat you are talking about this is what the Indian Air chief said today.

It's Pissing me off

 

[MastanKhan]

God forbid if those war casualties claimed by the iaf actually turned out to be real and the body count included "someone's" near and dear ones, the war trumpet would have first been blown by these same goodie good Samaritans.

Hi,

You don't get it---. They won't blow any war trumpets---. They would blame their own and say " you caused this "---.

 

[TheTallGuy]

imaginary AMRAAMS ?? LOL


I mean is there even a whip of evidence out there that Pakistan shot down an Indian Su30??

let get in to the rabbit hole.....why did not Mirage 2000 engage (china mall) JF17s answer me this and i will tell you where is the wreckage..