27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

[wasileo80]

India is definitely a peace loving country, we are very possibly supporting Ballochistan freedom movement but we won't support or anything like you did in Mumbai. Our wasn't a unilateral investigation, US, UK and Israel helped, they all know the root. Why is Pakistan in FATF grey list? Why is I dia not in list? We suffered for 20, 30years before we changed our policy, but it is still very limited. We have huge fence on Loc for a reason, you are building one on Afghan border, obviously you found it is efficient.

You are far far away from the on ground realities.... i would recommend you to visit other threads on this forum and you will see so many evidences of India's state sponsor terrorism in balochistan, in KPK, in karachi and in Punjab.. Even the photos of terrorists who killed innocent people in Balochistan in karachi treated in New Delhi hospitals... what else you wanted to show as evidence...

 

[Windjammer]

[/QUOTE]

India is definitely a peace loving country, we are very possibly supporting Ballochistan freedom movement but we won't support or anything like you did in Mumbai. Our wasn't a unilateral investigation, US, UK and Israel helped, they all know the root. Why is Pakistan in FATF grey list? Why is I dia not in list? We suffered for 20, 30years before we changed our policy, but it is still very limited. We have huge fence on Loc for a reason, you are building one on Afghan border, obviously you found it is efficient.

But we don't always blame others for our troubles however every time a Basanti even suffers miscarriage the echo chamber starts blaming ISI or Pakistan.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Kulbushan was abducted by your spy agency, in retaliation of someone whom you think we hold. The possibility of escalation was very clear after 27th, India utilised that to get Abhi released. Imran then dramatically announced release of pilot to avoid escalation.

Ur idiotic logic is not a surprise...I see many Indian trolls with such low IQ. As pointed out before...Abhinandan was a POW...and hence he had to be released as per Geneva convention. Indian threat of missile attacks was countered by Pak's own threats of retaliating missile strikes with missile strikes. U r relating the two incidents to create an imaginary victory for urself. By that reasoning one could relate any two incidents...and declare one as the cause of the other. I'm sure there were hundreds of Indians who farted just before Abhinandan's release...use ur idiotic reasoning there as well and claim that Pakistan got scared by those farting Indians and decided to release Abhinandan.
@masterchief_mirza look at this shiny new account this guy has made...let's make bets on how soon it gets banned.

 

[RoshiniVenegal]

But we don't always blame others for our troubles however every time a Basanti even suffers miscarriage the echo chamber starts blaming ISI or Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]
You can't do that when you clearly knows who caused Basantis pregnancy. You fear your wife is going to catch you.

Ur idiotic logic is not a surprise...I see many Indian trolls with such low IQ. As pointed out before...Abhinandan was a POW...and hence he had to be released as per Geneva convention. Indian threat of missile attacks was countered by Pak's own threats of retaliating missile strikes with missile strikes. U r relating the two incidents to create an imaginary victory for urself. By that reasoning one could relate any two incidents...and declare one as the cause of the other. I'm sure there were hundreds of Indians who farted just before Abhinandan's release...use ur idiotic reasoning there as well and claim that Pakistan got scared by those farting Indians and decided to release Abhinandan.
@masterchief_mirza look at this shiny new account this guy has made...let's make bets on how soon it gets banned.

You mean to say we are all functioning based on Geneva convention, UN charter of human rights, war etc. Sending trained terrorists across is by which Geneva convention? Pakistan threatened of retaliation too, we both are scared of each other which is what is preventing an all out war. Releasing Abhinabdan was the easiest thing to do for de-escalation.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

These are all mere allegations, we can say same thing about you. Pakistan has been sponsoring terrorism on Indian soil, as Ajit Dowel said our policy has changed to Defensive Offence. Who reaps a bitter harvest only time can tell. As of now neither country has the capability to have a decisive victory. Nuclear weopans are always in background.

Umm, actually your allegations and attempts to malign Pakistan confuse me.

In 1947, which princely state did Pakistan occupy forcibly without negotiation and against the will of its people? Where did Pakistan strong arm any state chief into (a) perpetrating a premeditated act of ethnoreligious genocide to alter demographic reality, and (b) to accede in a particular direction against the will of his people even when the option of remaining independent existed as per the British mandate?

Never mind JnK. Shall we discuss Junagadh and Hyderabad also, if only to highlight the double standards that your kind indulge in so liberally?

Terrorism shmerrorism. Civilians who are oppressed and forced to relinquish their democratic rights to political representation will always revolt. This isn't "terrorism", tera chacha has taught you a new word that you people vomit at any opportunity.

Anyone, anywhere, regardless of religion, will always revolt against such a litany of human rights abuses, massacres, overextension of police powers, violation of democracy, election rigging and repression of freedom of movement/speech/communication/protest. The victims of Indian terrorism have been waiting for justice since 1947.

Kindly take your false equivalencies elsewhere and peddle it to those who are similarly brainwashed by their own state level propaganda.

Balochistan freedom movement has been supported to an extend in retaliation to your support for Kashmir terrorists but not anywhere else. Photos of terrorists treated in Delhi is a joke, from Balochistan thry came to Delhi?

It is common knowledge that BLA terrorists have political and medical support networks in mainland India. Your own people would laugh at you for believing otherwise.

Who are Baloch Liberation Army? Insurgents who killed 30 in Pakistan in last one week

The province of Balochistan in Pakistan has been witness to a violent, separatist movement for the past seven decades.

www.google.com

Why not simply share in the same pride that various Indian commentators - from Maj Gaurav to The Hindu newspaper - have espoused towards these terrorists and claim ownership? They are a somewhat effective irregular fighting force. India can take a degree of credit for their capabilities. Why are you so ashamed of them?

 

[Mrc]

BTW if there was no su 30 downed than why a SAR heli was sent in air (the one that was shot down)???

Caz abhinonedone had clearly crossed into pak territory and with PAF jets already holding the air space there was no chance to infiltrate and exfiltrate plus you need a fix on pilots position which abhi could not give as he was been thrashed around by civilians...


So why did mi 35 v5 search and rescue take to air with a special forces team in a middle of an aerial fight where su 30 and m 2000s bugged out??



. There must have been downed pilots on Indian side clearly

 

[Cookie Monster]

You mean to say we are all functioning based on Geneva convention, UN charter of human rights, war etc. Sending trained terrorists across is by which Geneva convention? Pakistan threatened of retaliation too, we both are scared of each other which is what is preventing an all out war. Releasing Abhinabdan was the easiest thing to do for de-escalation.

Oh look another brilliant reasoning u pulled out from ur behind. Tell me has Pakistan ever withheld POWs against Geneva conventions? No

Now how about u answer these questions below...
1) If India is so mighty and Pakistan is so scared...why didn't Pakistan just quietly take it when India carried out air strikes? Why did Pakistan retaliate with full force and bomb "mighty India"? Where was this "fear of India"?

2) If India was so mighty...why did India not strike back after PAF bombed Indian territory, shot down ur jet, and captured ur pilot? Why quietly take it without retaliation if India is so strong and Pak is so weak? Pakistan didn't take Indian intrusion and bombing sitting down and not only retaliated but announced it before hand...surely mighty India can do better right? So where had this "might" gone?

3) If India used threats of missile strikes to secure the release of Abhinandan...and Pakistan got scared and decided to bow down to Indian demands...why did India not use that opportunity to secure the release of Kulbhushan Jadhav? Or better yet...add in the whole Azad Kashmir and GB in the demands as well? So was it just bad bargaining? Or is it perhaps ur argument is pure BS to begin with?

4) Now coming back to this topic of "terrorism" u keep crying about...
...so why is it that when militants attack India...it must be Pakistan who is funding and training them...
...and when the militant attacks happen in Pakistan...it must then be martians who are behind it? Tell me where their funding is coming from? U r delusional to think that India is not involved in sponsoring these types of elements in Pakistan...both countries have been doing this against each other for decades.

 

[RoshiniVenegal]

Oh look another brilliant reasoning u pulled out from ur behind. Tell me has Pakistan ever withheld POWs against Geneva conventions? No

Now how about u answer these questions below...
1) If India is so mighty and Pakistan is so scared...why didn't Pakistan just quietly take it when India carried out air strikes? Why did Pakistan retaliate with full force and bomb "mighty India"? Where was this "fear of India"?

2) If India was so mighty...why did India not strike back after PAF bombed Indian territory, shot down ur jet, and captured ur pilot? Why quietly take it without retaliation if India is so strong and Pak is so weak? Pakistan didn't take Indian intrusion and bombing sitting down and not only retaliated but announced it before hand...surely mighty India can do better right? So where had this "might" gone?

3) If India used threats of missile strikes to secure the release of Abhinandan...and Pakistan got scared and decided to bow down to Indian demands...why did India not use that opportunity to secure the release of Kulbhushan Jadhav? Or better yet...add in the whole Azad Kashmir and GB in the demands as well? So was it just bad bargaining? Or is it perhaps ur argument is pure BS to begin with?

4) Now coming back to this topic of "terrorism" u keep crying about...
...so why is it that when militants attack India...it must be Pakistan who is funding and training them...
...and when the militant attacks happen in Pakistan...it must then be martians who are behind it? Tell me where their funding is coming from? U r delusional to think that India is not involved in sponsoring these types of elements in Pakistan...both countries have been doing this against each other for decades.

Please read my other responses, where did I say India is mighty, I told that issuing threats was in a different circumstance than that of Kulbushan. India started support very late but there is a limit , never know when these snakes will turn against us, like a faction of TTP turning against you.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

1947 nobody took anything forcefully, King ceded to Indian union sighting Pakistani forces advancing. We merely stopped you from taking whole Kashmir. Junagadh and Hyderabad had sizable Hindu population in fact majority was Hindus. Yes civilians will revolt against oppression like in Baluchistan. How many Baluchistan youths disappeared in last 40 years? What is the percentage of growth of minority communities in India and Pakistan after 19 47?
You should come and visit Hyderabad and Junagadh, people living in harmony and peace. Thankfully they don't share border with Pakistan, otherwise - - - . Once the British left who is going to listen to them. I have nothing to say regarding your rant about genocide etc, you very well know such things never happened in India.
So what word did your chacha teach you? 'World peace' I guess .
We don't train Balochistan fighters. There is nothing to be proud of, any one with reasonable health can easily be trained to use weopans. Passing 10th grade or getting a degree is much more difficult. I don't support violence in any form or shape. Kashmir was heaven until the 80s. Only after Pakistan decided to take revenge for 71,which was in turn finishing the unfinished business of 65, Kashmir became hell. If you had any consideration for people of Kashmir you won't send in World Peace.

The dogra had no authority to accede to India against the will of his people. He no longer had the confidence of his people.

Nor did he have the confidence of Mountbatten interestingly enough.

“It is my Government's wish that as soon as law and order have been restored in
Jammu and Kashmir and her soil cleared of the invader, the question of the State's accession
should be settled by a reference to the people”.

All educated individuals who held any sort of stake in the future of JnK's people recognised the basic reality that the people themselves should decide on their own accession.

Yet some idiots who cannot read beyond their sanghee university syllabus still believe that all that matters is an irrelevant ceremonial figurehead who waved a bit of paper around (itself written by obviously partial Indians), as though this paper somehow grants authority over people simply because Delhi said it does. Such delusions cannot be helped or treated unfortunately, other than through an act of simple mercy killing of such defective individuals.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Please read my other responses, where did I say India is mighty, I told that issuing threats was in a different circumstance than that of Kulbushan.

First u didn't answer any of my questions...secondly by saying that India threatened Pakistan into releasing Abhinandan u r implying that Pakistan is weak and India is super strong that it was able to strong arm Pakistan.

Hence why I posed those questions that u r trying hard not to answer. Here I'll post them again...let's see if u avoid answering again...
1) If India is so mighty and Pakistan is so scared...why didn't Pakistan just quietly take it when India carried out air strikes? Why did Pakistan retaliate with full force and bomb "mighty India"? Where was this "fear of India"?

2) If India was so mighty...why did India not strike back after PAF bombed Indian territory, shot down ur jet, and captured ur pilot? Why quietly take it without retaliation if India is so strong and Pak is so weak? Pakistan didn't take Indian intrusion and bombing sitting down and not only retaliated but announced it before hand...surely mighty India can do better right? So where had this "might" gone?

3) If India used threats of missile strikes to secure the release of Abhinandan...and Pakistan got scared and decided to bow down to Indian demands...why did India not use that opportunity to secure the release of Kulbhushan Jadhav? Or better yet...add in the whole Azad Kashmir and GB in the demands as well? So was it just bad bargaining? Or is it perhaps ur argument is pure BS to begin with?

4) Now coming back to this topic of "terrorism" u keep crying about...
...so why is it that when militants attack India...it must be Pakistan who is funding and training them...
...and when the militant attacks happen in Pakistan...it must then be martians who are behind it? Tell me where their funding is coming from? U r delusional to think that India is not involved in sponsoring these types of elements in Pakistan...both countries have been doing this against each other for decades.
--> u answered(if we can call it an answer)
"India started support very late but there is a limit , never know when these snakes will turn against us, like a faction of TTP turning against you."

So where exactly do these militant factions attacking Pakistanis...get their funding from? Which country is at odds with Pakistan? Angola? Namibia? Some country in the neighborhood perhaps? Sri Lanka? What about Bhutan? Oh I know maybe China hatched a nefarious plan to invest billions in CPEC in Pak and then turned around to fund some terrorists that also attack its own Chinese engineers...
...if it completely escaped u...the above is sarcasm. Kulbhushan Jadhav is living proof of India funding anti Pak militant groups. But u can keep denying it and continue to be a hypocrite...that's very much expected of u.

 

[Cookie Monster]

The dogra had no authority to accede to India against the will of his people. He no longer had the confidence of his people.

Nor did he have the confidence of Mountbatten interestingly enough.

“It is my Government's wish that as soon as law and order have been restored in
Jammu and Kashmir and her soil cleared of the invader, the question of the State's accession
should be settled by a reference to the people”.

All educated individuals who held any sort of stake in the future of JnK's people recognised the basic reality that the people themselves should decide on their own accession.

Yet some idiots who cannot read beyond their sanghee university syllabus still believe that all that matters is an irrelevant ceremonial figurehead who waved a bit of paper around (itself written by obviously partial Indians), as though this paper somehow grants authority over people simply because Delhi said it does. Such delusions cannot be helped or treated unfortunately, other than through an act of simple mercy killing of such defective individuals.

U omitted the hypocrisy in his reasoning...the reverse situation occurred in Junagadh...where the Muslim ruler had acceded to Pakistan...but the majority of the population was Hindu. On this pretext India invaded and captured it...and held a plebiscite to then be able to say "the people wanted to be with India".

Tagging the hypocrite here so he can read the above @RoshiniVenegal
So which is it then? Is the instrument of accession the abiding document? According to this u must give Junagadh to Pakistan...

...or is it that the invading country holds a plebiscite in the invaded territory not recognizing the instrument of accession?
According to this Pakistan has the right to invade Kashmir and the instrument of accession that India cites is invalid.

Oh wait I know...u r gonna go with the hypocritical option and bend logic and reason.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

U omitted the hypocrisy in his reasoning...the reverse situation occurred in Junagadh...where the Muslim ruler had acceded to Pakistan...but the majority of the population was Hindu. On this pretext Indian invaded and captured it...and held a plebiscite to then be able to say "the people wanted to be with India".

Tagging the hypocrite here so he can read the above @RoshiniVenegal
So which is it then? Is the instrument of accession the abiding document? According to this u must give Junagadh to Pakistan...
...or is that the invading country holds a plebiscite in the invaded territory not recognizing the instrument of accession?
According to this Pakistan has the right to invade Kashmir and the instrument of accession that India cites is invalid.

Oh wait I know...u r gonna go with the hypocritical option and bend logic and reason.

Indeed. Junagadh has been mentioned to our friend previously in my earlier post. His response was that the people are happy there so nothing else matters - naturally this is a contradiction of the supposed rate limiting step in Kashmir; if the people AREN'T happy, then will their grievances be taken into account?

It's constant b.s. with these people - inventing a new justification every day, which directly contradicts the justification elsewhere. Instrument of Accession or raj's will is all that matters here, but people's happiness is all that matters there.

Such people who live their entire lives through outdated chanakiya fail to realise that the discerning reader these days knows what was said yesterday about such and such a place - indeed we record history meticulously now. The era where chanakiya used to work as viable state level policy through deception is long gone. It's akin to some call centre functionary trying to scam you with a decade old script.

These are the eternal blessings of amateurism.

 

[RoshiniVenegal]

So where exactly do these militant factions attacking Pakistanis...get their funding from? Which country is at odds with Pakistan? Angola? Namibia? Some country in the neighborhood perhaps? Sri Lanka? What about Bhutan? Oh I know maybe China hatched a nefarious plan to invest billions in CPEC in Pak and then turned around to fund some terrorists that also attack its own Chinese engineers...
...if it completely escaped u...the above is sarcasm. Kulbhushan Jadhav is living proof of India funding anti Pak militant groups. But u can keep denying it and continue to be a hypocrite...that's very much expected of u.
[/QUOTE]

1) Pakistan took it very quietly saying only trees and crows . This was a major oppurtunity for Pakistan if it wanted to escalate instead it played low. 5 diffused bombs , dropped away from target is full force for you? Quick and restricted visit to bombed madrasa after 40 days says something . All locals were instructd not to talk anything and camera never zoomed to near by areas .Just showed some restricted views.

2) War was never on cards , if it was, first strike would be on military not on a known terrorist training camp. Shooting down jet and taking POW is part and parcel of any skirmish , war , these are not preplanned right ? Anything can happen in a skirmish. Pakistan announced 'time and place of it choosing' the usual statement from both sides.
3) Kb Yadav was a different issue altogether , you can ask why not ask for all prisoners , yes why not entire Pakistan , not practical right? Securing his release was priority , we could do the same you did with Kulbu but then the game would get very dirty. Kidnappings , threats etc. Karachi cantonment wasblacked out for a reason. Remember moview 'Kathal Ki Raat' , see that. But I have to warn you , it is adults only.
4) You forgot that TTP was funded by US and they had opium. Now that a faction of TTP is against you after you bombed Waziristan and stuff , they still get funding from opium trade and also Arab countries. We will never fund TTP. Your army shoud have thought about that before bombing TTP. But now things are settled . There are lots of dead and living proofs of Pakistan funding terror in India.

 

[RoshiniVenegal]

Indeed. Junagadh has been mentioned to our friend previously in my earlier post. His response was that the people are happy there so nothing else matters - naturally this is a contradiction of the supposed rate limiting step in Kashmir; if the people AREN'T happy, then will their grievances be taken into account?

It's constant b.s. with these people - inventing a new justification every day, which directly contradicts the justification elsewhere. Instrument of Accession or raj's will is all that matters here, but people's happiness is all that matters there.

Such people who live their entire lives through outdated chanakiya fail to realise that the discerning reader these days knows what was said yesterday about such and such a place - indeed we record history meticulously now. The era where chanakiya used to work as viable state level policy through deception is long gone. It's akin to some call centre functionary trying to scam you with a decade old script.

These are the eternal blessings of amateurism.

If people aren't happy all reasonable grievances will be taken in to account. We can't let Kashmir to be an independent state since too much blood has been given for it, other states like Tamilnadu can demand independence.
Freedom should stem from your mind. You might live in the most free society, but you can still be a prisoner of your thought. If you live in US and think that my freedom an happen only if live under Shariya law, you will be a prisoner for life. Now this is what the separatists are tryng to achieve. People have left highly paid jobs, luxurious life to join ISIS, they were a prisoner to their thoughts.
Now in a free world if everyone achieve complete freedom, self realisation, we no longer need boundaries, we realise we are one species and we need to stand for each other.

 

[Cookie Monster]

1) Pakistan took it very quietly saying only trees and crows . This was a major oppurtunity for Pakistan if it wanted to escalate instead it played low. 5 diffused bombs , dropped away from target is full force for you? Quick and restricted visit to bombed madrasa after 40 days says something . All locals were instructd not to talk anything and camera never zoomed to near by areas .Just showed some restricted views.

2) War was never on cards , if it was, first strike would be on military not on a known terrorist training camp. Shooting down jet and taking POW is part and parcel of any skirmish , war , these are not preplanned right ? Anything can happen in a skirmish. Pakistan announced 'time and place of it choosing' the usual statement from both sides.
3) Kb Yadav was a different issue altogether , you can ask why not ask for all prisoners , yes why not entire Pakistan , not practical right? Securing his release was priority , we could do the same you did with Kulbu but then the game would get very dirty. Kidnappings , threats etc. Karachi cantonment wasblacked out for a reason. Remember moview 'Kathal Ki Raat' , see that. But I have to warn you , it is adults only.
4) You forgot that TTP was funded by US and they had opium. Now that a faction of TTP is against you after you bombed Waziristan and stuff , they still get funding from opium trade and also Arab countries. We will never fund TTP. Your army shoud have thought about that before bombing TTP. But now things are settled . There are lots of dead and living proofs of Pakistan funding terror in India.

Oh man...the more I try to shove ur face in reality...the further u run into the rabbit hole of ur delusions. I'm done wasting my time.

Yes...Pakistan is super weak...India is mighty...it was purely out of generosity that India "let" Pakistan bomb Indian territory, shoot down IAF aircraft, and capture Abhinandan.
Also all terrorists attacking India are funded/trained/supported by Pakistan...while all terrorists attacking Pakistan are self sufficient. India never does any such things against its neighbors...Tamil Tigers who? What is this Mukti Bahini ppl speak of? All non sense of course. India is a peace loving nation, the largest democracy on earth and the next superpower that is about to over take the US(or already did in 2012)...
...chant all this first thing in the morning then rinse urself with a quick shower of gow mutr.