215th anniversary of General Tipu Sultan.

[Bang Galore]

If you don't know, Tipu Sultan is disliked by Hindus and Christians of South India for the kind of religious bigotry and intolerance he showed against Hindus and Christians.

Not accurate. Not in the Mysore/Bangalore region. Only in South Canara & Kerala primarily.

I am aware of that. He was a class A bigot. There is a reason, India hardly remembers him but our beloved neighbor commemorates him.
He was sick and a typical sadist. His grave to this day is undecorated and people completely ignore it. His last stand is now adorned by temples, the fort has been allowed to disintegrate - such is the contempt for him.

Hardly. Tipu Sultan remains widely respected in South Karnataka (except South Canara) & I find your position that no one has any respect for him not linked to fact. He remains widely respected as a warrior who stood up to the British. The bigotry charge against him, while true partially, was almost never displayed within his kingdom, only outside. Like all historical figures, simplistic caricatures don't do justice here.

 

[Truth Finder]

You are right. They do it even today. Marathas were the single most evil of all invaders to set foot in India.

Now, you are twisting my statements. what I said is a fact. Have you any idea of Rajput harems from 14th century to 19th century(Hint: Kashmir & Dogra kings as recently as in the 19th century)? Stop this holier than thou attitude.
BTW, I hope by the term "invader", you meant-"Aryans", "greeks", "Scythians","huns", "Kushans","Turks"-everyone. Also, Just read what happened to them later.

As they say about India," Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated"

 

[Bang Galore]

You know in our zeal to be on the right or left of Indian politics we 've thrust Tipu to the scrutiny of “Secularism”, “Communalism” and “Nationalism”.... terms that were non existent in 18th century India.
Judging characters of the past by the yardsticks and definitions of today is being grossly unfair to them because the facts don’t fit our straightjacket.
There are some letters written by Tipu to the then Shankaracharya of Sringeri. Incidentally while the Maratha rulers are the icons of Hindu nationalism today during the 3rd Anglo-Mysore War had ravaged Mysore and damaged the very seat of Hinduism the Shankaracharya’s temple in Sringeri and looted its property. And do you know it was Tipu who supposedly renovated the temple??
But yes its true he converted thousands of hindus in the Malabar region and Christians too.I am not denying it.
Religion was used as a tool for cultural subjugation of the conquered some 200 years ago.
Orelse would the Marathas 've plundered Sringeri? Would the Nizam and Tipu not have been natural allies?
In between black and white is a huge continuum of grey and being as human as any one of us.. Tipu belongs to this zone of grey too.
Historical figures need to be freed from the clutches of contemporary politics and left to academic study by historians and be judged as products of their time and circumstances
And lest we forget that Tipu was a brave soldier who fought till the end..

Couldn't agree more.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Why we love to hate Tipu Sultan - Livemint
@levina - you quoted from here.

As for Tipu Sultan - if anyone wishes to worship him and consider him a hero, I don't have any problem with that. Tall words, intellectual jugglery won't allow me to accept his actions as a normal act of the times. You are free to hail a mass murderer as a hero, I ain't stopping that.

Tipu Sultan is highly respected by some people(among Muslims) not only in South Karnataka but all over India and abroad. They also hold rallies in his support.

His letters to his courtiers is public. I have gone through them, so have I glanced through different chronicles - from across the spectrum.

 

[Aslan]

You know in our zeal to be on the right or left of Indian politics we 've thrust Tipu to the scrutiny of “Secularism”, “Communalism” and “Nationalism”.... terms that were non existent in 18th century India.
Judging characters of the past by the yardsticks and definitions of today is being grossly unfair to them because the facts don’t fit our straightjacket.
There are some letters written by Tipu to the then Shankaracharya of Sringeri. Incidentally while the Maratha rulers are the icons of Hindu nationalism today during the 3rd Anglo-Mysore War had ravaged Mysore and damaged the very seat of Hinduism the Shankaracharya’s temple in Sringeri and looted its property. And do you know it was Tipu who supposedly renovated the temple??
But yes its true he converted thousands of hindus in the Malabar region and Christians too.I am not denying it.
Religion was used as a tool for cultural subjugation of the conquered some 200 years ago.
Orelse would the Marathas 've plundered Sringeri? Would the Nizam and Tipu not 've been natural allies?
In between black and white is a huge continuum of grey and being as human as any one of us.. Tipu belongs to this zone of grey too.
Historical figures need to be freed from the clutches of contemporary politics and left to academic study by historians and be judged as products of their time and circumstances
And lest we forget that Tipu was a brave soldier who fought till the end.

@abjktu
This should be my reply to your post on "whatever" thread.

Very nicely put, I dont think it can be made any clear then that.

 

[INDIC]

Not accurate. Not in the Mysore/Bangalore region. Only in South Canara & Kerala primarily.

I am aware of the regions where he committed persecutions of Hindus and Christians.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

You know in our zeal to be on the right or left of Indian politics we 've thrust Tipu to the scrutiny of “Secularism”, “Communalism” and “Nationalism”.... terms that were non existent in 18th century India.
Judging characters of the past by the yardsticks and definitions of today is being grossly unfair to them because the facts don’t fit our straightjacket.
There are some letters written by Tipu to the then Shankaracharya of Sringeri. Incidentally while the Maratha rulers are the icons of Hindu nationalism today during the 3rd Anglo-Mysore War had ravaged Mysore and damaged the very seat of Hinduism the Shankaracharya’s temple in Sringeri and looted its property. And do you know it was Tipu who supposedly renovated the temple??
But yes its true he converted thousands of hindus in the Malabar region and Christians too.I am not denying it.
Religion was used as a tool for cultural subjugation of the conquered some 200 years ago.
Orelse would the Marathas 've plundered Sringeri? Would the Nizam and Tipu not 've been natural allies?
In between black and white is a huge continuum of grey and being as human as any one of us.. Tipu belongs to this zone of grey too.
Historical figures need to be freed from the clutches of contemporary politics and left to academic study by historians and be judged as products of their time and circumstances
And lest we forget that Tipu was a brave soldier who fought till the end.

@abjktu
This should be my reply to your post on "whatever" thread.

i. Nizam was a British puppet. Nizam hence never towed a strictly Islamist foreign and home policy in the early years

ii. Considering Tipu as grey would still be acceptable but a hero? Please don't expect me to glorify a murderer of Hindus and Christians among others...

iii. Him being secular or not is of no concern. Even without being secular one can be human. Tipu does not qualify.

You know in our zeal to be on the right or left of Indian politics we 've thrust Tipu to the scrutiny of “Secularism”, “Communalism” and “Nationalism”.... terms that were non existent in 18th century India.
Judging characters of the past by the yardsticks and definitions of today is being grossly unfair to them because the facts don’t fit our straightjacket.
There are some letters written by Tipu to the then Shankaracharya of Sringeri. Incidentally while the Maratha rulers are the icons of Hindu nationalism today during the 3rd Anglo-Mysore War had ravaged Mysore and damaged the very seat of Hinduism the Shankaracharya’s temple in Sringeri and looted its property. And do you know it was Tipu who supposedly renovated the temple??
But yes its true he converted thousands of hindus in the Malabar region and Christians too.I am not denying it.
Religion was used as a tool for cultural subjugation of the conquered some 200 years ago.
Orelse would the Marathas 've plundered Sringeri? Would the Nizam and Tipu not 've been natural allies?
In between black and white is a huge continuum of grey and being as human as any one of us.. Tipu belongs to this zone of grey too.
Historical figures need to be freed from the clutches of contemporary politics and left to academic study by historians and be judged as products of their time and circumstances
And lest we forget that Tipu was a brave soldier who fought till the end.

@abjktu
This should be my reply to your post on "whatever" thread.

Being or not being secular is irrelevant to me.
He was a mass murdering sadist and his victims faith is of a tertiary importance.

As for being a brave soldier?
Let's celebrate Reginald Dyer or Otto Skorzeny as well?

 

[Bang Galore]

I am aware of the regions where he committed persecutions of Hindus and Christians.

The other areas where he did no such thing is also in "South India".

 

[Levina]

Why we love to hate Tipu Sultan - Livemint
@levina - you quoted from here.

As for Tipu Sultan - if anyone wishes to worship him and consider him a hero, I don't have any problem with that. Tall words, intellectual jugglery won't allow me to accept his actions as a normal act of the times. You are free to hail a mass murderer as a hero, I ain't stopping that.

Tipu Sultan is highly respected by some people(among Muslims) not only in South Karnataka but all over India and abroad. They also hold rallies in his support.

His letters to his courtiers is public. I have gone through them, so have I glanced through different chronicles - from across the spectrum.

Yes I did.
Holding ambivalent views against Tipu is fine.
But I clearly mentioned that I've credited Tipu for his bravery and his style of warfare.
We call Mr.MK.MohanDas our father of the nation but its a completely different thing that I don't even feel like calling him Mahatma and don't have an iota of respect for that man.
Just because the Congress burnished Gandhi Ji's image doesn't mean he should be called the father of the nation.Now that's completely my take on it and an example of how your views and mine might differ on the subject.
Ostensibly,the hindu extremists had taken against Tipu sultan on twitter and that's how this mass mud slinging on Tipu sultan began.
I don't understand why should there be such fracas about Tipu sultan.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Yes I did.
Holding ambivalent views against Tipu is fine.
But I clearly mentioned that I've credited Tipu for his bravery and his style of warfare.
We call Mr.MK.MohanDas our father of the nation but its a completely different thing that I don't even feel like calling him Mahatma.Just because the Congress burnished Gandhi Ji's image doesn't mean he should be called the father of the nation.Now that's completely my take on it and an example of how your views and mine might differ on the subject.
Ostensibly,the hindu extremists had taken against Tipu sultan on twitter and that's how this mass mud slinging on Tipu sultan began.
I don't understand why should there be such fracas about Tipu sultan.

You call Hindus extremists because they tweeted against Tipu on the Internet!
And you call Tipu Sultan a hero even after accepting his despicable acts. We should erect statues of Churchill, Dyer, Clive etc as well. Maybe Hitler even - he was also an excellent soldier in the first war.

I rest my case. You are free to follow your calling.

 

[abjktu]

I am aware of the regions where he committed persecutions of Hindus and Christians.

he is a hero among most kannadigas...now they are planning to start a new central university in sri rangapattana,near mysore after tipu sultan...

 

[SarthakGanguly]

he is a hero among most kannadigas...now they are planning to start a new central university in sri rangapattana,near mysore after tipu sultan...

We also successfully renamed Anantnag to Islamabad.

Indians.

 

[abjktu]

Yes I did.
Holding ambivalent views against Tipu is fine.
But I clearly mentioned that I've credited Tipu for his bravery and his style of warfare.
We call Mr.MK.MohanDas our father of the nation but its a completely different thing that I don't even feel like calling him Mahatma and don't have an iota of respect for that man.
Just because the Congress burnished Gandhi Ji's image doesn't mean he should be called the father of the nation.Now that's completely my take on it and an example of how your views and mine might differ on the subject.
Ostensibly,the hindu extremists had taken against Tipu sultan on twitter and that's how this mass mud slinging on Tipu sultan began.
I don't understand why should there be such fracas about Tipu sultan.

he was a mass killer and rapist...don't you know what he did in North Kerala??

 

[Truth Finder]

But yes its true he converted thousands of hindus in the Malabar region and Christians too.I am not denying it.

This statement also needs to be authenticated. You just cannot have a hyperbolic letter written with the intension to seek help as the source of the ultimate truth. You will also have to put the British angle into it. We mostly depend on British writers to know what the character of Tipu was.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

This statement also needs to be authenticated. You just cannot have a hyperbolic letter written with the intension to seek help as the source of the ultimate truth. You will also have to put the British angle into it. We mostly depend on British writers to know what the character of Tipu was.

No. We depend on Tipu's own letters to build the narrative. The British narrative set in only with respect to the Anglo-Mysore Wars.