1864-2014 Circassian Genocide Olympics

[ptldM3]

He doesn't know history. He already proven that couple of times. Haha.

Right, the guy that denies the Armenian Genocide has the audacity to claim I don't know history

I won't even take for him since he is just repeating his lies when I already gave answer to them.

I provide sources you have yet to Give me a single source Ignorantly repeating that the Armenian Genocide never happened is not proof and it certainly doesn't prove that it did not happen. I could have a more intellectual conversation with a door knob.

He makes lies we randomly killed Armenians,

Those arn't lies. Once again, I provided sources while you have been running your mouth.

only the ones who committed crimes were put to justice.

Including little children, shame on you.

The pictures of Armenian hanging were of the convicted. We haven't took anything from Armenia since it didn't existed but if you learn history through reading nationalistic deluted Armenian blogs that is what happens.

Really? Turkey has taken nothing from Armenian? Again, I have proven this to be untrue. Any link I provide you automatically go full Senile and start denying...denying and again...denying. If you actually had some rebuttals you would post them, but you don't, so you can only resort to petty denial.

Everything put aside this is not even the topic of the thread. If he wants to talk about Armenian so called genocide he should open own thread. He is insulting Muslims with bringing irrational things with no historical backing about Muslims up in thread about Muslim Circassians genocide.

Really me providing proof of the Armenian Genocide is an insult to Muslims? What makes you so special? So the Circassian Genocide is not an insult? And sorry buddy, I have provide source after source for every claim that I have made so how do you dare to claim that I have no historical backing.

Just four? Still very few for millions of people. and Russians actively suppress/oppress Islam...thats a fact.



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There are thousands of mosques in Russia, now remind everyone how many churches are in Saudi Arabia? ......Zero. Now try to find a church in the middle that has not been attacked...then talk about suppression.

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Than i must tell you that Ottoman statistics are crap.Stop daydreaming.

Yes those Ottoman statistics are crap, but even worse is the fact that this guy has still not been able to provide a source for those "statistics". Notice too how he believes Ottoman propaganda but when confronted with countless sources proving the Armenian Genocide, he goes into full denial mode by calling it lies

 

[AUz]

There are thousands of mosques in Russia, now remind everyone how many churches are in Saudi Arabia? ......Zero. Now try to find a church in the middle that has not been attacked...then talk about suppression.

Have you been in Saudi Arabia?

I have. Did not go to pilgrimage but I have lived there. In central, "core" Saudi Arabia...

There are many churches that christians from say philipines operate in their houses..everyone knows that...and nobody attack those churches. What you don't know is that there isn't any mosque of non-saudi Muslims in KSA too

In KSA, "non-saudis" are not allowed to buy any property...and hence they can not "make a church" since they can't even buy any land for it. So they have churches in their rented homes.

Same is the case with Muslims..no outsider is allowed to buy any land or property...so Muslims go to "state-sanctioned" mosques to pray friday prayers...

So stop bringing in KSA everytime..since its not a valid excuse for Russian persecution of Muslims and Islam..

According to polls, over-whelming majority of Russians are agnostics just like Europeans..Russians ain't even christians..in Gallop survey on religiousity, Russia scored in the last category of "least religious" ....pretty much means agnostics...but then if Muslims want to live by their faith..atleast some of them..so why you have problem?

Let them live freely. Russian neo-nazis hate Muslims. People in Moscow don't let them build mosque..and Russian government regularly bombs Muslims and kills their family...not to mention how Russian took over lands which were Muslims in its genocidal wars of expansion. Shame on Russia.

 

[vostok]

Have you been in Saudi Arabia?

I have. Did not go to pilgrimage but I have lived there. In central, "core" Saudi Arabia...

There are many churches that christians from say philipines operate in their houses..everyone knows that...and nobody attack those churches. What you don't know is that there isn't any mosque of non-saudi Muslims in KSA too

In KSA, "non-saudis" are not allowed to buy any property...and hence they can not "make a church" since they can't even buy any land for it. So they have churches in their rented homes.

Same is the case with Muslims..no outsider is allowed to buy any land or property...so Muslims go to "state-sanctioned" mosques to pray friday prayers...

So stop bringing in KSA everytime..since its not a valid excuse for Russian persecution of Muslims and Islam..

According to polls, over-whelming majority of Russians are agnostics just like Europeans..Russians ain't even christians..in Gallop survey on religiousity, Russia scored in the last category of "least religious" ....pretty much means agnostics...but then if Muslims want to live by their faith..atleast some of them..so why you have problem?

Let them live freely. Russian neo-nazis hate Muslims. People in Moscow don't let them build mosque..and Russian government regularly bombs Muslims and kills their family...not to mention how Russian took over lands which were Muslims in its genocidal wars of expansion. Shame on Russia.

Why do you need a mosque in Moscow? Build them in Kazan, Grozny and Makhachkala.
Moscow - Orthodox city . Many centuries Russia was the only independent Orthodox country. From the 15th to the 19th century. By the way, tell you who conqured the majority of Orthodox nations? Muslims . Russia has never been oppressing Muslims. But this does not mean that we must abandon our faith in your favor . Immigrants from Central Asia in Moscow - a temporary phenomenon . After 10-20 years, the industry in Central Asia will be restored and they return to their homeland . There they can build as much mosques as they want - no one forbids them .
You would not want Mecca and Medina became Christian cities? Moscow for Orthodoxy is almost a Mecca for Islam.

 

[vK_man]

Why do you need a mosque in Moscow? Build them in Kazan, Grozny and Makhachkala.
Moscow - Orthodox city . Many centuries Russia was the only independent Orthodox country. From the 15th to the 19th century. By the way, tell you who conqured the majority of Orthodox nations? Muslims . Russia has never been oppressing Muslims. But this does not mean that we must abandon our faith in your favor . Immigrants from Central Asia in Moscow - a temporary phenomenon . After 10-20 years, the industry in Central Asia will be restored and they return to their homeland . There they can build as much mosques as they want - no one forbids them .
You would not want Mecca and Medina became Christian cities? Moscow for Orthodoxy is almost a Mecca for Islam.

There was once that saudi arabia wanted to build mosque in moscow,russian govt told we will allow if you allow russia to build church in Riyadh .Saudi arabia refused , so moscow refused.And I do not think that central asian immigrants in moscow are temporary.Most of the central asian people want a soviet type union again. I think some of churches could serve as mosque cum church like chrislam movement or like church of all religions.

 

[vostok]

There was once that saudi arabia wanted to build mosque in moscow,russian govt told we will allow if you allow russia to build church in Riyadh .Saudi arabia refused , so moscow refused.And I do not think that central asian immigrants in moscow are temporary.Most of the central asian people want a soviet type union again. I think some of churches could serve as mosque cum church like chrislam movement or like church of all religions.

Exactly for this creates the Eurasian Union. Already created and launched programs for re-industrialization of Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. When these people will be able to work at home - they will not need to go to Moscow.

 

[flamer84]

Just four? Still very few for millions of people. and Russians actively suppress/oppress Islam...thats a fact.



lol...Moscow? since when it became 'capital' of christianity? Rome? lol..there is no capital of Christianity..just like there is no capital of Islam..specially not Riyad



Do you know how Arab vs Byzantine wars started?

Arabs sent an ambassador to Byzantine to invite them to Islam...he was executed..then Byzantinian allies in Arabia..Syrians etc..waged wars against Arabs who were angry at Byzantinian aggression and disrespect...Byzantine and allies actually destroyed a whole arab army at north middle-east and murdered their all three leaders...it was only AFTER this, that Arabs started an all-out campaign against Byzantine.

Secondly, people of Syria, levant etc, willingly accepted Islam because they were utterly oppressed by Christian Byzantine...thats basic history 101...There are still millions of Muslims in Arab World..but when Christian conquered Spain, they killed and drove out every single Muslim...

The byzantines were christian for over 3 centuries before the rise of Islam,that "invitation" made no sense to them.Ofcourse they responded in force to what they perceived as a dangerous movement.Anyway,you can't equate a few skirmishes with what followed,a full invasion and a cleansing of christians over the centuries.Considering that all those territories were christian and looking at the numbers now...let's not forget that those numbers keep going down due to persecutions.

The spanish took their lands back,at first the muslims wre allowed to stay only to rebel.After that,they were expelled.

And another thing,the ottomans didn't expel/kill all the christians because they couldn't.Imagine trying to do this in the Balkans,they would have had a full rebelion on their hands throughout all the provinces.Couple that with the outcry in the rest of Europe and they would have had an impossible situation on their hands.

The truth is that after the 7th century,Christian states were constantly under siege by muslim powers.When they started to fight back and even winning the upper hand you like to cry foul.

 

[vK_man]

Exactly for this creates the Eurasian Union. Already created and launched programs for re-industrialization of Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. When these people will be able to work at home - they will not need to go to Moscow.

Well as long as Moscow is political and financial capital they will come and remain so.Unless Russia shifts capital to novosibirsk and declares Moscow a religious city ,it won't be possible.

and what do you think about church of all religions idea?

 

[flamer84]

Yes those Ottoman statistics are crap, but even worse is the fact that this guy has still not been able to provide a source for those "statistics". Notice too how he believes Ottoman propaganda but when confronted with countless sources proving the Armenian Genocide, he goes into full denial mode by calling it lies

Unfortunately ,we're loosing the essennce of this thread.It's unreasonable to ask someone to leave territories after so many years (on both sides).As i've said before (and on other forums,even russian posters agreed with me) a solution would be for Russia to somehow compensate the heirs of the deported circassians and offer citizenship and repatriation for the ones who wish that.

The russians of today are not the russians of the 19th century but they can correct some of the mistakes of their ancestors regardless of the position of others towards other crimes (see Turkey vis a vis Armenian Genocide).To each,his own,this "you did it to" seems childish to me.

and what do you think about church of all religions idea?

Worst ideea ever ! Why would the russians corrupt the religion they have for 1000 years ??

 

[vK_man]

Worst ideea ever ! Why would the russians corrupt the religion they have for 1000 years ??

simple.Merger and acquisition .Truth and reconciliation. Focus on universal truths which exist in all religions.

And what I am saying is that russia should create something like that to represent tolerance for all. it does not mean disband orthodoxy ,but rather to syncretize the muslims and make them more tolerant of other faiths.

 

[vostok]

Well as long as Moscow is political and financial capital they will come and remain so.Unless Russia shifts capital to novosibirsk and declares Moscow a religious city ,it won't be possible.

and what do you think about church of all religions idea?

Certainly will arrive. But not in large quantities, and individually. And not because there is no other way but for career advancement. As it was in the Soviet Union, when ambitious people who have achieved success in their republic moved to Moscow, moving to the next level in their careers.
I have negative attitude to such temples. I am - Orthodox person.
Russia never forced people who were part of the Empire to accept Christianity. Neither Muslim or Buddhist people for centuries joining Russia has not lost their faith. We - not Catholics. We do not baptize with fire and sword, forcibly pressing for Orthodoxy.

 

[flamer84]

simple.Merger and acquisition .Truth and reconciliation. Focus on universal truths which exist in all religions.

And what I am saying is that russia should create something like that to represent tolerance for all. it does not mean disband orthodoxy ,but rather to syncretize the muslims and make them more tolerant of other faiths.

The muslims should reform themselves,just like christians did,rooting out the agression from religion teachings.

 

[vK_man]

Certainly will arrive. But not in large quantities, and individually. And not because there is no other way but for career advancement. As it was in the Soviet Union, when ambitious people who have achieved success in their republic moved to Moscow, moving to the next level in their careers.
I have negative attitude to such temples. I am - Orthodox person.

And you do realise that it was the forcefulness of the new believer church and the brutal imposition of its beliefs on other sects of christianity that culminated in the Russian revolution and the mass genocide waged by Trotsky of 12-18 million deaths. If Russia wishes to preserve itself ,then syncretism will have to come.China's vast size was sustained by syncretism. USA has already a lot of syncretic movements. India too is sustained by syncretism.

First step could be to create a unified church of all orthodox peoples.second step could be make a social welfare net by the church so that it can feed and the house the flock. third would be create a church of all sects ,with or without tendency towards syncretism.

The muslims should reform themselves,just like christians did,rooting out the agression from religion teachings.

Thats what I am saying.For that syncretism happens to be the best weapon.Jesus himself was a jewish buddhist did you know that.

 

[flamer84]

Thats what I am saying.For that syncretism happens to be the best weapon.Jesus himself was a jewish buddhist did you know that.

I really don't think He was .

You don't need syncretism to coexist.There are plenty of muslim who are not radicals,even in Russia.See the tatars,or the vast majority of muslims in Dagestan.When arab muslim radicals and chechens invaded Dagestan to impose sharia in the 90's the Dagestani muslims were the first to oppose them in battle,before the russian troops could come into action.And those were ordinary muslim citizens who just want to live a normal life,without religion being imposed on them.

 

[vostok]

And you do realise that it was the forcefulness of the new believer church and the brutal imposition of its beliefs on other sects of christianity that culminated in the Russian revolution and the mass genocide waged by Trotsky of 12-18 million deaths. If Russia wishes to preserve itself ,then syncretism will have to come.China's vast size was sustained by syncretism. USA has already a lot of syncretic movements. India too is sustained by syncretism.

First step could be to create a unified church of all orthodox peoples.second step could be make a social welfare net by the church so that it can feed and the house the flock. third would be create a church of all sects ,with or without tendency towards syncretism.



Thats what I am saying.For that syncretism happens to be the best weapon.Jesus himself was a jewish buddhist did you know that.

I do not want any synthetic religion. I do not want unification of Orthodoxy with Protestantism or Catholicism. I accept Orthodoxy for what it is. Just such a way - without reforms and revolutions .
Events '17 have no relation to Orthodoxy . First Bolsheviks ( the majority of them were Jews ) hated all religions equally .
The White race has reached its greatness precisely thanks to Christianity. And can be great only if will stick Christianity . If the West finally abandon it's roots - he will die. And Russia will remain.

 

[vK_man]

Certainly will arrive. But not in large quantities, and individually. And not because there is no other way but for career advancement. As it was in the Soviet Union, when ambitious people who have achieved success in their republic moved to Moscow, moving to the next level in their careers.
I have negative attitude to such temples. I am - Orthodox person.
Russia never forced people who were part of the Empire to accept Christianity. Neither Muslim or Buddhist people for centuries joining Russia has not lost their faith. We - not Catholics. We do not baptize with fire and sword, forcibly pressing for Orthodoxy.

I really don't think He was .

You don't need syncretism to coexist.There are plenty of muslim who are not radicals,even in Russia.See the tatars,or the vast majority of muslims in Dagestan.When arab muslim radicals and chechens invaded Dagestan to impose sharia in the 90's the Dagestani muslims were the first to oppose them in battle,before the russian troops could come into action.And those were ordinary muslim citizens who just want to live a normal life,without religion being imposed on them.

Jesus was an Essene who came to India ,studied under Buddhist monks and achieved considerable siddhis.There has been proof of it in the buddhist monastery documents in Ladakh ,second you can check what remote viewers like Edgar Cayce ,Ghulam Mirza of Qadian stated on Jesus .or google nazarene judaism.