Iran's answer to all doubters! 22 of Bahman

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

They are designed to estimate the value of a country's economic output.

For the wealth of people, you must consider GNI (Gross National Income) per capita, Gini coefficient, HDI, life expectancy, literacy rate, infant mortality rate...

I've studied economics myself and there are DOZENS of ways to measure the wealth and quality of life of a people. GDP per capita is incredibly basic and barely relevant.

No thanks.

GDP per capita PPP is certainly relevant + HDI. life expectancy, literacy rate etc.. are included in hdi.
GNI per capita ppp, again almost all GCC countries rank in top 10. Why not if they have powerfull HDI, gdp ppp per capita, gni per capita?

Thanks. I didn't mean GDP Per Capita is the final thing, but wanted to say that if the GDP Per Capita of a nation is low, then it hasn't yet achieved much, even if it already owned half of Mars, or had a ship load of nukes. Bad economy is a daily pain for people and it brings corruption, crimes, prostitution, and depression. It also keeps heads down and make the nation a borrower, debtor, beggar, or looter. The GCC has a long way to go into economic diversification as it is largely dependent on oil with very little improvement in the diversification effort. The GCC is not in the right path yet, and it is dubious if it will ever catch up.

I'm serious and I know that GCC is planning diversification. Still GCC is doing much better than Iran.

 

[Full Moon]

Iranians were a bit impatient with the Shah, and they unfortunately didn't predict how the revolution will turn out to be. I think that the Pahlavis' over secularization of Iranians caused a big part of the people's anger against the Shah, or in other words, it caused them to believe that a clergyman will be a proper ruler at the end of the 20th century. The Pahlavis (like all secular or semi-secular regimes in the ME), made a mistake by messing around with the moral issues in their own countries.

I mean, there was an obvious tendency for encouraging very liberal attitudes towards women's clothing, red areas, open brothels (which are illegal in the US and Canada for example), endless number of night clubs in every town.....etc. The clergy, and the conservative people of any ME country do overly focus on moral issues, more than anything else. That contributed to a big part of the clergy's hostility towards the Shah (of course among other things). But for the traditional ME mentality, the issues of social justice, democracy, rule of law...etc. aren't as easily understandable and therefore aren't as important as moral issues.

 

[AmirPatriot]

GCC countries rank in top 10. Why not

Simply, because their economies are unsustainable. They are based on oil and precious little else. Oil is a finite resource and so is their current economic prosperity.

 

[Shapur Zol Aktaf]

Simply, because their economies are unsustainable. They are based on oil and precious little else. Oil is a finite resource and so is their current economic prosperity.

Their economies are more complex than ours, if not, they're the same.
So our economy is also dependent on oil, but unlike them our oil income it is not translated to increasement in peoples wealth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_economic_complexity

 

[Full Moon]

Simply, because their economies are unsustainable. They are based on oil and precious little else. Oil is a finite resource and so is their current economic prosperity.

I agree with you on this. The GCC if it doesn't act towards economic diversification, it will not sustain % 30 of what it has today. The way is too long still, although the UAE, Qatar, and to a less extent Bahrain have made good steps but still, the real action hasn't started yet. KSA and Kuwait are the most dependent on oil. KSA is huge in size (translating into big infrastructure spending), and has also got insane military and internal security spending (along with political spending). But in all events, I doubt that any serious diversification will actually take place. I only see the UAE as the most probable successor in that front, due to their excellent management of their own affairs. Thanks to the heroic efforts of Sheikh Rashid Bin Saeed Al Maktoom راشد بن سعيد المكتوم, who was a real visionary man.

 

[Arminkh]

Iranians were a bit impatient with the Shah, and they unfortunately didn't predict how the revolution will turn out to be. I think that the Pahlavis' over secularization of Iranians caused a big part of the people's anger against the Shah, or in other words, it caused them to believe that a clergyman will be a proper ruler at the end of the 20th century. The Pahlavis (like all secular or semi-secular regimes in the ME), made a mistake by messing around with the moral issues in their own countries.

I mean, there was an obvious tendency for encouraging very liberal attitudes towards women's clothing, red areas, open brothels (which are illegal in the US and Canada for example), endless number of night clubs in every town.....etc. The clergy, and the conservative people of any ME country do overly focus on moral issues, more than anything else. That contributed to a big part of the clergy's hostility towards the Shah (of course among other things). But for the traditional ME mentality, the issues of social justice, democracy, rule of law...etc. aren't as easily understandable and therefore aren't as important as moral issues.

It was not only the moral issue. Iranian's were not happy with over-reliance on West either. Things that are happening in South Korea or Japan considering US permanent military presence are not tolerated in Iran even for one day.

 

[Full Moon]

It was not only the moral issue. Iranian's were not happy with over-reliance on West either. Things that are happening in South Korea or Japan considering US permanent military presence are not tolerated in Iran even for one day.

I don't really buy this as a reason. Iran was saved from being a Soviet colony, if it wasn't for the alliance that the Shah had forged with the US. Remember, there is no free lunch in politics, even if your country is still developing and has a weak negotiation position. You still give to the West and take from it. (e.g. Iran's air-force that it got from the US helped it greatly in the 8 years war which it hasn't yet been able to replace until now). Also, having a good relationship with the West is not limited to Iran, KSA, or Turkey. The UK, Germany, Japan, South Korea are all remarkable countries. Yet, they do have an alliance with the US somehow to also give and take.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Their economies are more complex than ours, if not, they're the same.
So our economy is also dependent on oil, but unlike them our oil income it is not translated to increasement in peoples wealth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_economic_complexity

The ECI is based principally on exports. The Persian Gulf monarchies have high ECI because they export such a huge amount of oil.

Iran's economic diversity has not yet reached the export level, but with the current trend it will be.

I agree with you on this. The GCC if it doesn't act towards economic diversification, it will not sustain % 30 of what it has today. The way is too long still, although the UAE, Qatar, and to a less extent Bahrain have made good steps but still, the real action hasn't started yet. KSA and Kuwait are the most dependent on oil. KSA is huge in size (translating into big infrastructure spending), and has also got insane military and internal security spending (along with political spending). But in all events, I doubt that any serious diversification will actually take place. I only see the UAE as the most probable successor in that front, due to their excellent management of their own affairs. Thanks to the heroic efforts of Sheikh Rashid Bin Saeed Al Maktoom راشد بن سعيد المكتوم, who was a real visionary man.

UAE is v. good economically primarily because of tourism, Emirates airlines and port facilities. They will continue to grow well, though I think the eventual irrelevance of oil will hit their growth (as the import/export value of the Arabian peninsula will fall hugely).

 

[Arminkh]

I don't really buy this as a reason. Iran was saved from being a Soviet colony, if it wasn't for the alliance that the Shah had forged with the US. Remember, there is no free lunch in politics, even if your country is still developing and has a weak negotiation position. You still give to the West and take from it. (e.g. Iran's air-force that it got from the US helped it greatly in the 8 years war which it hasn't yet been able to replace until now). Also, having a good relationship with the West is not limited to Iran, KSA, or Turkey. The UK, Germany, Japan, South Korea are all remarkable countries. Yet, they do have an alliance with the US somehow to also give and take.

The path Iran is following is more similar to that of China. In my opinion, Germany, Japan, South Korea and ..... are all remarkable countries but that is all they are ever going to be. They can never become an active independent world power as their reliance on US is both their strength and their weakness. They can't adopt an independent policy. That is not where Iran likes to go. For Iran it is simple: It either can pull itself up by itself without owing anyone or it doesn't want it at all.

 

[Full Moon]

The path Iran is following is more similar to that of China. In my opinion, Germany, Japan, South Korea and ..... are all remarkable countries but that is all they are ever going to be. They can never become an active independent world power as their reliance on US is both their strength and their weakness. They can't adopt an independent policy. That is not where Iran likes to go. For Iran it is simple: It either can pull itself up by itself without owing anyone or it doesn't want it at all.

Do you live in Canada? If yes, then I rest my case. Iran wasn't surly the place to stay in. If you have immigrated to Canada, then how can you blame any country for its good relationship with the West, where your actions that speak louder than your words, confirmed to us that you clearly preferred the West over Iran. Iran's best option (if not dream) is to seek %50 of what S. Korea has achieved. It is all about being realistic. Living in utopia is just way too dangerous to be a public policy, or a state ideology.

 

[500]

There are two problems with this whole discussion:

1- First is stereotyping. Iran government has been steered by different administrations and presidents. Some of them have been very good with economy like Khatami and some of them not so good or even destructive. It is the same verywhere.
2- Let's take another look at what @500 posted here:

As you can see even though the population of Iran has more than doubled since 1979, the GDP per Capita of Iran before the recent sanctions has more than tripped. Given the increase in the population, it means Iran's GDP has grown almost 7 times what it used to be between 1979-2010 that means an average of 9.7% per year. That is an epic rate of growth no matter how biased one can be.

No one says there are no mismanagement in Iran. Do you know any country that doesn't suffer from the same to some extent? But the overall outcome has been more than acceptable

Again, dollar in 1979 was much higher than today. Here constant dollar chart:

 

[xyxmt]

You did not read carefully what I wrote. you are super rich country, you got trillions of perodollars. But instead spending them on ur own people u spend these trillions on nukes, terror around the world and slaughtering kids in Syria.

Fun fact: in 1979 Iran GDP per capita was higher than S. Korean.

other countries are not as lucky and their defense needs paid by America

 

[The SC]

Happy Birthday to the Islamic Republic of Iran

You did not read carefully what I wrote. you are super rich country, you got trillions of perodollars. But instead spending them on ur own people u spend these trillions on nukes, terror around the world and slaughtering kids in Syria.

Fun fact: in 1979 Iran GDP per capita was higher than S. Korean.

Then came an 8 years war with Iraq and the hardest sanctions on any country yet.. you think your " country "had nothing to do with that? weakening Iraq after the war and turning back on Iran up till now.. you think people are blind ?

 

[pts_m_h_2016]

Do you know what China's GDP per Capita is ranked at? Clearly NOT! Because China is such a weak country! LOL!

And here is your top 10 Per capita countries!

View attachment 376053


Yea because these are such strong countries with advanced technologies!

They are stronger than Iran, per capita, in science and technologies. Without any doubt, in the case of non petro states. In case of petro states, some doubts exist.

View attachment 376058

This is the Per Capita ranking from 1993-2015!

You would think if per capita they were among the leaders of the world for 20 years at least scientifically & technologically they would be the leaders of the world by now! NOPE!

All that number means is that for their population, their GDP is high! All that money could be in the hands of 10 rich people for all you know!!!!!!! Fact is in reality It doesn't mean anything!

Wrong.

Most of them are leaders in their respective sectors except the petro states.

Meanwhile Iran is nowhere close to leadership in any single sector in per capita terms or in total either. Stop your fantasies.

Iran is not a leading country in science nor technology. Other than the Islamic Republic's apologists, you hardly find any neutral source to confirm this scientific and technological leadership that you talk about.

I remember discussing with these brainwashed people.

Completely brainwashed by propaganda. In reality, their high quality publications in science and technology do not even match the publications output of a Singapore or Switzerland, so they puff up numbers by publishing lots of troll posts and low quality publications. They have no high quality high technology company or high tech exports.

A simple example. They are unable to explore and develop their own oil and gas fields, which they are the fourth and 2nd largest owners of, I think. That is how primitive they are. Western sanctions or no sanctions, if they had the capabilities, they surely would not have waited for foreign investments in these sectors for much needed technologies.

Clearly you don't know how to read!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All it means is that per their population their GDP is high!
And it's high because of a few reason!
Low Population + Natural Resources = High GDP compared to their population! It doesn't means they have good leaders that know how to manage money!
OR
Tax laws that attract companies to base their headquarters in that country!

It doesn't mean the people of that country are better off, get a better education, have better healthcare, have a educated workforce,....

All that money could be concentrated in the hands of 10 rich people or corporations!

For 20 years those countries have been ranked among to top 10 in terms of GDP per capita and yet NOT a SINGLE one of the can say they are among the most technologically advanced countries in the world! NOT EVEN ONE OF THEM!

All of them, barring petro states perhaps, are amongst the world leaders in science and technology, per capita.

By any neutral index of achievement or performance.

Iran is nowhere in sight in any neutral non-Wilayah al Faqih index, in per capita terms, or total.

GDP per capita PPP is certainly relevant + HDI. life expectancy, literacy rate etc.. are included in hdi.
GNI per capita ppp, again almost all GCC countries rank in top 10. Why not if they have powerfull HDI, gdp ppp per capita, gni per capita?


I'm serious and I know that GCC is planning diversification. Still GCC is doing much better than Iran.

Arab petro states are only doing better as much as the Western states permit them.

Arab petro states are severely lacking in scientific expertise, technological acumen, sophistical industrial and service sectors. This is not the case for the non petro states with high per capita economic numbers, or scientific or technologic numbers.

Iran is foolishly working against the West given its lower scientific and technological expertise and lower talent pool. It is just a fact not intended to insult. Iran with its population of 80 million and IQ lower than 97 has no chance of fighting or tackling Western interests in its region for the next 2000 years perhaps.

China, by the way, can do so because it has a population of 1300 million people at IQ of around 105. And China had successful role models and expert advice, transfer of technology, management expertise, planning, training and such from its brothers and sisters and cousins in Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea, Taiwan.

Does Saudi Arabia, Russia, India, Iran, Turkey or Azerbaijan have such mentors ready to lend a guiding hand?

Do you live in Canada? If yes, then I rest my case. Iran wasn't surly the place to stay in. If you have immigrated to Canada, then how can you blame any country for its good relationship with the West, where your actions that speak louder than your words, confirmed to us that you clearly preferred the West over Iran. Iran's best option (if not dream) is to seek %50 of what S. Korea has achieved. It is all about being realistic. Living in utopia is just way too dangerous to be a public policy, or a state ideology.

They can not make the right decision, after all, average IQ is lower. Same is true for Arabs and Kurds and Turks and Hindus, Jews and Africans, by the way.

China is an ancient civilization by itself held back by corrupt and incompetent communist party officials who often flee abroad with their loot for a greener pasture. Otherwise, Napoleon was right: once the giant rises, the world shall tremble.

Iran or Turkey should try to be equal to Spain at maximum. I think, for them, that would be a great achievement. Or maybe South Korea as well, if they can, that would be good too.

Happy Birthday to the Islamic Republic of Iran


Then came an 8 years war with Iraq and the hardest sanctions on any country yet.. you think your " country "had nothing to do with that? weakening Iraq after the war and turning back on Iran up till now.. you think people are blind ?

He is just angry his country is not strong enough to bomb Iran as it wishes.

Iran should be compared to North Korea, Burma, Cuba, Venezuela. Clearly, Iran was not a star performer but not that bad performer either. Better than Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Morocco anyday. If it had the same access to Western markets, expertise, technologies that China enjoyed for 4 decades or that Arabs Hindus and Turks enjoy, sure it could have been a much more improved country.

We see that it is trying to improve itself nowadays which is always good news. I see no reason why more Airbus sales would be bad.

Again, dollar in 1979 was much higher than today. Here constant dollar chart:

View attachment 376078

It has to do with exchange rates.

 

[WordsMatter]

GDP per capita is an incredibly poor way to measure the wealth of people.

Funny of a Saudi to talk of science and technology, and an Israeli to to talk about military spending and nukes, when their own miniscule strip of dirt has nukes and spends more than Iran. Iran spends the least on its military per capita than anyone in the region.

@WordsMatter your words are well written but their content is woefully misinformed and bias is clouding your judgement. I suggest you aim more to learn from members here rather than try to lecture them with lack of knowledge.

@waz and @Serpentine I suggest this thread be closed asap as it has Israeli and Saudi trolls from page 1. Nothing good will come from this thread.

@AmirPatriot I'm not lecturing anyone; I am simply expressing my opinion. I think me can disagree but be civil at the same time. Also, how am I biased when I don't believe every propaganda that comes out of IRI? You also say I am misinformed. Would you be kind enough and tell me how you have arrived at that conclusion?