Yasin Malik injured in Srinagar protests

[Logic note]

One wonders what our Indian friends will do after Bush is gone - where will they seek support for their anti-Muslim agenda - The Israeli can be counted upon to take the Indians money, but unless an international sponsor for an anti-Muslim agenda can be found, our Indian friends will have to think serious about the limits of thei anti-Muslim agenda. The Muslims of Hindustan and Kashmir have demonstrated that their patience is stretched thin.



. [/FONT]

No body is Anti Muslim Muse .. but everybody is against Fundamentalism and will fight agaisnt it ..

Its the Patience of the world which is stretched thin by seperatiest and narrow minded ideology and thats why WOT has reached Pakistan .


After Bush there is Obama or any sane Politician , they will carry on this WOT and it will get messy .
Tough talk on Pakistan from Obama | U.S. | Reuters

 

[Sagar Bhai]

Well said Jana

 

[muse]

Logic

Kashmir is not about extremism, it's about 1947 -- unless creation of Pakistan was to you and those persuaded by the same kinds of notion as you, think that was extremism.

U.S will change soon - it won't have any choice in the matter - come tomorrow you will see, if you are paying attention, the beginning of a economic meltdown in the US.

And ofcourse all those who have taken advantage of WOT to present their anti-Muslim attitudes behind the cover of WOT, will themselves seek cover, don't be too suprised in the coming years at an active international judicial which may be successful in holding accountable those who imagine they are above the law.

Indian friends have to decide who they are and where they belong - and in this I wish them well.

 

[Flintlock]

Logic

Kashmir is not about extremism, it's about 1947 -- unless creation of Pakistan was to you and those persuaded by the same kinds of notion as you, think that was extremism.

U.S will change soon - it won't have any choice in the matter - come tomorrow you will see, if you are paying attention, the beginning of a economic meltdown in the US.

And ofcourse all those who have taken advantage of WOT to present their anti-Muslim attitudes behind the cover of WOT, will themselves seek cover, don't be too suprised in the coming years at an active international judicial which may be successful in holding accountable those who imagine they are above the law.

Indian friends have to decide who they are and where they belong - and in this I wish them well.

Some ominous predictions there!

 

[muse]

Assasino:

Not predictions - analysis.


What do you make of this :





Who rules India?

Sunday, September 14, 2008
Aakar Patel

Political power in India has shifted from the three upper castes to the fourth 'middle' caste through elections since 1952. A parallel cultural process has blurred identities within that fourth caste and it no longer sees itself as defined in Hindu doctrine. Hindu doctrine defines four castes: Brahmin, Kshtriya (warrior) and Vaishya (merchant) are the upper castes, which are twice-born. The fourth, Shudra, is the peasant caste, banned from learning, but not untouchable.

Everyone who is not of these specific castes (Dalits, Muslims, Christians) is outside the caste system and an untouchable, by doctrine. In 1950, the Constitution of India abolished doctrinal Hinduism, under Articles 15 and 17. Article 15 opens up free access for all citizens to all public places, including "wells, tanks, bathing ghats...". Article 17 abolishes untouchability. The Supreme Court of India ruled that it was not necessary to be Brahmin to officiate at temples, ending a 3500 year monopoly.

In terms of population, about 50 per cent of all Indians would be Shudra, but a cultural process known as Sankritization has led to Hindus, especially Shudras, rejecting their lower caste and defining themselves in terms of Jati or sub-caste, through which they claim higher status.

India's Constitution was finished on November 26, 1949 and adopted on January 26, 1950, Republic Day. After India's first general election in 1952, the structure of power was not dissimilar to what came before it. However, over decades of elections, the structure has changed; one could say it has inverted itself. In the years after Independence, the most populous states of India were ruled by upper caste chief ministers, who were in power in 13 out of these 15 states. Ten of these chief ministers were Brahmin.

At the centre, India had a Brahmin prime minister (Nehru) and a Brahmin president (Dr Rajendra Prasad). The man considered the nation's leader, Gandhi, was of the merchant caste. In Uttar Pradesh, India's largest state, the chief minister was Pandit Govind Ballabh Pant (Brahmin). Today the state of UP, with a population of 190 million, is headed by a Dalit woman, Mayawati. It is possible she will become prime minister after the next elections, the first untouchable to hold that position.

Politics in Maharashtra, India's second biggest state with 97 million people, is dominated by Marathas, a peasant caste that claimed martial ancestry through enlistment in the Muslim armies of the Deccan, and then through ruling large parts of India after the collapse of the Mughals. The state's first chief minister (YB Chavan) and current one (Vilasrao Deshmukh) are both Marathas.

Bihar's first chief minister was from the warrior caste, Sri Kumar Sinha. India's third biggest state with a population of 83 million, it is ruled today by a leader of the Other Backward Classes (OBC) Nitish Kumar, who is a Kurmi peasant. India's fourth biggest state is West Bengal, with 81 million people. Its current chief minister is Budhdhadeb Bhattacharya of the CPM. He is a Brahmin, the only one on this list, though being Communist he denies caste. The first chief minister of his state was PC Ghosh, from a caste that defines itself by its sub-caste, Kayastha but is actually part of the peasantry.

The fifth biggest state in India is Andhra Pradesh, with a population of 78 million. Its first chief minister was VN Menon, a Brahmin. Its current chief minister is a Christian from an OBC caste, YSR Reddy.

Next is Tamil Nadu with 68 million people. Its leader is the fiery Dravidian leader Karunanidhi, whose party's identity rose from an anti-Brahmin, anti-Aryan movement. Tamil Nadu's first chief minister, founder of the Dravidian political movement, was CN Annadurai, who came from a caste of weavers. Madhya Pradesh's first chief minister was Pandit Ravishankar Shukla, a Brahmin. Today its leader is the BJP's Shivraj Chouhan, of the warrior caste. The state's population is 62 million.

The first chief minister of Rajasthan, home of the Rajputs and with a population of 58 million, was HL Shastri, a Brahmin. Today the chief minister is a woman, and a Maratha, the BJP's Vasundhara Raje Scindia. Martial Rajputs accept her because she is from a family of Marathas that ruled over large parts of central India. Her patronymic 'Raje' is from Raja, and Scindia is a corruption of the Marathi name Shinde. Gujarat has a population of 55 million and its first chief minister was Dr Jivraj Mehta, from the merchant caste and married to a Brahmin. Narendra Modi, its current leader, is from an OBC caste of oil pressers, called Ghanchi in Gujarati. Despite coming from an OBC caste, and one that is not populous, Modi has retained his power by owning a Gujarati identity rather than a caste-based one. The dominant caste in Gujarat is the peasant community of Patels.

Karnataka with 54 million people also has a BJP government, with BS Yeddyurappa of the Lingayat community as its current chief minister. The Lingayats are followers of a 12th century saint who preached ecumenical Hinduism, and the group rejects caste. In India, naturally, they are The-caste-that-rejects-caste. The first chief minister of Karnataka was also Lingayat, K Hanumanthaiah.

The eastern state of Orissa with 38 million people was headed first by a Brahmin, Hare Krushna Mahtab, and now by Naveen Patnaik of the caste of merchants.

Kerala in the south has 32 million people and its first chief minister was the Brahmin EMS Namboodiripad, a Communist. The current chief minister is also Communist, VS Achuthanandan of the OBC caste of Ezhavas.

Assam in the north-east has 27 million people. Its first chief minister was Gopinath Bordoloi, a Brahmin. It is headed currently by Tarun Kumar Gogoi, from an OBC caste.

Punjab has 26 million people and its first chief minister was Dr Gopi Chand Bhargava, a Brahmin. Since the mid-60s it has been ruled by the Sikhs, most of the peasant caste of Jats including the incumbent, Parkash Singh Badal.

Haryana has 21 million people. Its first chief minister was a Brahmin, Pandit Bhagwat Dayal Sharma. Since the 70s (the state was formed when East Punjab was divided in 1966) the state has been ruled mostly by Jats of the peasant caste. The present chief minister is Bhupinder Singh Hooda, also a Jat. The oligarchy of Nehruvian India has come to an end, and the bottom caste has seized power.

Even the BJP, India's party of Hindu high culture, has been forced to shift its position.

Its ideologues and founders were Brahmins from SP Mookerjee to Vajpayee. The RSS is entirely Brahmin from its ideologues - Savarkar, Hedgewar, Golwalkar, Upadhyaya - to all its chiefs, except one. But the BJP has been forced from within to cede power to middle and lower caste leaders because religion is not an identity for Hindus as much as first sub-caste and then language are.

English-speaking Indians, most of whom would be from upper castes, have removed themselves from politics. They first lost their position as the middle and low castes pressed their democratic advantage through elections. Then, as the economy changed, they exited politics fully because they did not need to depend on the state any longer.

In India, the state offers protection and employment, the two promises politicians hold out to their supporters.

Upper-caste, English-speaking Indians are not vulnerable to India's mindless violence and do not depend on the state for employment. Political discourse in India is emotional and cannot deliver itself in English. But the language of governance is English.

The writer is a former newspaper editor. He lives in Bombay. Email: aakar @hillroadmedia.com

 

[Flintlock]

Assasino:

Not predictions - analysis.


What do you make of this :

I see progress and reformation. What do you see?

 

[Logic note]

Logic

Kashmir is not about extremism, it's about 1947 -- unless creation of Pakistan was to you and those persuaded by the same kinds of notion as you, think that was extremism.

.

Kashmir has Muslims, Hindu , Sikh and Buddhist Population and only Few Muslims are separatist. they killed and maimed Kashmiri brahmins who are living like a refuigee in their own country ..
Kashmir is about religious extremism and so was 1947 (inability of few Muslims to coexists with people of other faith ).

U.S will change soon - it won't have any choice in the matter - come tomorrow you will see, if you are paying attention, the beginning of a economic meltdown in the US.

US wont change .. it will change others .. thats what power can and will do ..
economic meltdown has nothing to do with WOT .
Economic meltdown is because Capital always moves towards more economical labour and opportunities and hence it is moving towards China , India and other countries . but USA will remain a economic power .. more powerfull then everyone else by virtue of its ability to create and manage and attract new ideas and innovation ..

And ofcourse all those who have taken advantage of WOT to present their anti-Muslim attitudes behind the cover of WOT, will themselves seek cover, don't be too suprised in the coming years at an active international judicial which may be successful in holding accountable those who imagine they are above the law.

Indian friends have to decide who they are and where they belong - and in this I wish them well

WOT will end only when Humanity conquers the narrow minded faith ..when ethics will overcome faith .. and people will judged by their humanity and not by there faith .
International Judicial is "international " and this "International " conciousness have ability to understand the "reason" and "purpose" of Human "Law"

so rest assured This WOT will stretch long .. very Long .. till some nations and societies will accpet that coexistence with humanity has to be on equality irrespective of gender, religion, caste , or race ..

 

[Spring Onion]

Kashmir has Muslims, Hindu , Sikh and Buddhist Population and only Few Muslims are separatist. they killed and maimed Kashmiri brahmins who are living like a refuigee in their own country ..
Kashmir is about religious extremism and so was 1947 (inability of few Muslims to coexists with people of other faith ).

Ahh what a pitty if Kashmiri Brahmins were forced to leave why other Hindus are not?

Its the Indian brutal army that is maiming raping and killing innocent Kashmiris since many decades.
During recent land transfer row in Indian Held Kashmir, the fundamentalist Hindus broke into the houses of Muslims in Jammu, looted them, harrased them and killed them by burning them alive ( halmark of Hindu extermism)

Kashmir is about religious extremism and so was 1947 (inability of few Muslims to coexists with people of other faith.

It was the Hindu bunya mentality, it was that Hindutva mentality of Hindus in 1947 rather much before that which forced Muslims get a separate homeland.

WOT will end only when Humanity conquers the narrow minded faith ..when ethics will overcome faith .. and people will judged by their humanity and not by there faith .
International Judicial is "international " and this "International " conciousness have ability to understand the "reason" and "purpose" of Human "Law"

so rest assured This WOT will stretch long .. very Long .. till some nations and societies will accpet that coexistence with humanity has to be on equality irrespective of gender, religion, caste , or race ..

WoT will end when Jewish/Hindu Zionists will come out of their narrowminded ideology and learn to co-exist with the Humanity.

Till then killing of innocent people will continue at the hands of these zionists.

 

[Goodperson]

Assasino:

Not predictions - analysis.

What do you make of this :


Who rules India?

Sunday, September 14, 2008
Aakar Patel

The writer is a former newspaper editor. He lives in Bombay. Email: aakar @hillroadmedia.com[/SIZE]

Manmohan Singh a non Hindu is PM of India and Sonia Gandhi and her children all are non Hindus.

CM's of many states are Non Hindus.

So who rules India ? Only the Hindu's ?

 

[Logic note]

Ahh what a pitty if Kashmiri Brahmins were forced to leave why other Hindus are not?

Its the Indian brutal army that is maiming raping and killing innocent Kashmiris since many decades.
During recent land transfer row in Indian Held Kashmir, the fundamentalist Hindus broke into the houses of Muslims in Jammu, looted them, harrased them and killed them by burning them alive ( halmark of Hindu extermism)



It was the Hindu bunya mentality, it was that Hindutva mentality of Hindus in 1947 rather much before that which forced Muslims get a separate homeland.




WoT will end when Jewish/Hindu Zionists will come out of their narrowminded ideology and learn to co-exist with the Humanity.

Till then killing of innocent people will continue at the hands of these zionists.

Dear Jana

Discussion and debate is about sharing thoughts , thoughts which are filtered and personal prejudice and blind propoganda are removed from them . unfortunatly, your views are not in that criteria ..

These views are not differnt from the views of various fundamentalist i have come across . Use of "banya Mentality " and 'Jewish/Hindu Zionists" CLEARLY REFLECTS THAT .
I have put my thoughts and you have yours .. let others see and understand them with their perspective and judge .


God Bless

 

[muse]

Assasino

I see progress and reformation. What do you see?

It's a meaty piece. There is little point in being economic with it. Progress and Reform - well, certainly, from a point of view, that position can be taken with credibility, however; it can also be argued that traditional caste roles still play a significant role - in fact, one can argue that caste remains a defining element in Indian political circles. And if we become cheer leaders, we will do so at the risk of setting aside critical review, that does not mean that Progress and Reform was not or is not being achieved.

It was interesting to me that caste is structural. Most Indian I interact despise the notion, the idea of caste, and yet it is a pervasive, corrosive element because it is built in and recognized by the constitution and government policy.

It seems that government taking a position with regard to caste, has allowed caste to not just remain but grow in consciousness. It was intersting to read that there is a caste for Hindu indians who reject caste -- it seems to me, very Indian.

I also find the divide between English speaking Indians and non, to be interesting, particularly the economic and political. If one is persuaded that relying on the State for employment is a net negative, then perhaps the majority should be English speaking.

What does it say about the kinds of ideas about politics and society that inform the use of non-English languages? I would suggest that a rather similar thing exists in Pakistan.

The English introduced their education system to the "natives" in the belief that they were doing good for the "natives" - and from a persepective, they may have been right to think so; ouch.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Logic:

Kashmir is about religious extremism and so was 1947 (inability of few Muslims to coexists with people of other faith ).

In that sense 1947 was about pervasive racism within India - of the inability of the citizens of modern Indian to coexist due to their prejudice and racism as part of a larger global entity.

All humans discriminate and display 'intolerance' and 'nonacceptance of the other' when it comes to forming our identity - the problem is that you cherry pick for criticism the identity matrix that Pakistanis have chosen to define themselves through, while ignoring the very same dynamics of prejudice and 'nonacceptance of the other' in your own peoples and nations identity.

 

[muse]

Assasino

Not predictions - analysis

Have you read todays papers??

notice how much corruption continues ot go unnoticed by the free and fair media - notice no congressional hearings - democracy? Bite me!

 

[Spring Onion]

Dear Jana

Discussion and debate is about sharing thoughts , thoughts which are filtered and personal prejudice and blind propoganda are removed from them . unfortunatly, your views are not in that criteria ..

These views are not differnt from the views of various fundamentalist i have come across . Use of "banya Mentality " and 'Jewish/Hindu Zionists" CLEARLY REFLECTS THAT .
I have put my thoughts and you have yours .. let others see and understand them with their perspective and judge .


God Bless

I THINK you need to check your comments as well where your thoughts are filled with personal prejudice and blind propoganda .

Your lies and propagand about Muslims in 1947 as well as calling Islam a narrow-minded faith.

you forgot that it was the Hindu mentality that forced Muslims to seek an independent homeland for themslevs. And even in this modern century looking that massacre and plight of Muslims in India, the decision of creation of Pakistan for Muslims is more than correct.

 

[Spring Onion]

Manmohan Singh a non Hindu is PM of India and Sonia Gandhi and her children all are non Hindus.

CM's of many states are Non Hindus.

So who rules India ? Only the Hindu's ?

It dosnt matter if a non-Hindu is PM or President or CMhe in India as long as the power is in the hands of upper class Hindus who are driving these positions.


The symbolic persident or PM is only face saving formula to advocate secularism.