Will Waziristan break Pakistan's back?

[bhangra12345]

Can you tell me the circumstances under which no bullets were fired by 300 armed men?

Something like 1000 men with rifles (assumption no tanks and stuff) in advantageous position, Even then there will be minimum fire fight (something like hundred bullets fired and then go into hiding.

or

mass defection/defection at minimum officer level (the hunt for red october rings the bell here).

Can you add anything else Mr. Blain? The problem with the first is as I have stated something like 5 posts ago, food? Where are they getting food from? An army wont be carrying food for more than 5 days in a semi-peace conflict zone, especially when it is moving in size of 2-3 companies. (I am assuming that this convoy not to be part of food logistical chain for PA, they talked about jeeps but not trucks, so my assumption).
Something is going on, people who have experience working in that zone can give the best details.

 

[blain2]

Something like 1000 men with rifles (assumption no tanks and stuff) in advantageous position, Even then there will be minimum fire fight (something like hundred bullets fired and then go into hiding.

or

mass defection/defection at minimum officer level (the hunt for red october rings the bell here).

Can you add anything else Mr. Blain? The problem with the first is as I have stated something like 5 posts ago, food? Where are they getting food from? An army wont be carrying food for more than 5 days in a semi-peace conflict zone, especially when it is moving in size of 2-3 companies. (I am assuming that this convoy not to be part of food logistical chain for PA, they talked about jeeps but not trucks, so my assumption).
Something is going on, people who have experience working in that zone can give the best details.

There is no defection!!! I know Indians would love to suggest and believe that but it is not the case. I suspect you have never ever been close to Pakistani tribals areas so you have no idea as to what you are suggesting here. Food supply is not a problem. The Army convoy was in the Mehsud tribal area. The tribals there are being supported by their own tribe in getting food and logistics. Where they can feed thousands of tribals, they can feed 300 guests (as they call them) as well.

Something like 1000 men with rifles (assumption no tanks and stuff) in advantageous position, Even then there will be minimum fire fight (something like hundred bullets fired and then go into hiding.

Read my earlier post. The men were surrounded by tribals...if you ever go into Pakistani northwest, every single person/group rolls around with Ak-47s, RPGs etc. Its very hard for troops to distinguish who is just passing by and who has aggressive intentions. As per the reports in the mainstream Pakistani media (Dawn - with reporters in the adjacent areas), the convoy had stopped by a collapsed bridge when this happened. Troops were not the only ones around in that area. There were also some concerns among the tribals at seeing such a large body of troops in their area.

Beyond that nobody knows the circumstances. Had the troops and officers gone over, by now something would have been leaked to the press (nothing of this sort has happened). Pakistani troops may not want to fight their own people (which is something to be commended), however they are not that indisciplined that they would run away while in a Convoy.

 

[karpov]

Pakistani troops may not want to fight their own people (which is something to be commended), however they are not that indisciplined that they would run away while in a Convoy.

This situation is indeed embarassing and we may not comment properly until we know what exactly happened, nonethless all these paramilitary rangroots should be punished for causing a sort of a blooper. If troops don't want to fight their own people (suicide bombings, innocent killings, banning polio vaccine, no barber shops etc etc) then what the heck are they doping in army. Every body is in for plots and perks nowdays. I say let all these troops die at the hands of militants and then afterwards call airstrikes and a complete carpet bombing of waziristan. End it once and for all.

 

[F.O.X]

300 strong armed and trained men, and no bullets fired?
Not even a fire fight

First there are 224 men. 2nd they did not fired buulet bcoz they dont want to break the agreement, they just dont want to kill there own people just for no cause, according to ISPR the soldiers who were held hostage did not fire a single bullet bcoz they dont want to start a blood shed again .


Regards
WILCO

 

[karpov]

Aaj TV reporting that DG ISPR stating that missing men found. Were caught in bad weather reulting in loss of communications and a delay in the convoy.

Tell you what! I have seen some jokers in uniform on TV, but this guy is a total clown, he never acknowledges the truth and just speaks rubbish. Duno how people lik ehim become generals, seems lost brother of Shujjat, the way he speaks, Brig cheem ai much better in terms of communicatio and intuition.

 

[karpov]

First there are 224 men. 2nd they did not fired buulet bcoz they dont want to break the agreement, they just dont want to kill there own people just for no cause, according to ISPR the soldiers who were held hostage did not fire a single bullet bcoz they dont want to start a blood shed again .
Regards
WILCO

NO CAUSE?????????are you sure what you saying? I dont' wana repeat what we all know about these fanatics, They did not fire a single shot cos they chose the esay way out, talibs would be treating them like guests giving them GOSHT and huqa, so they go and tell these tales to their colleeagues, more will defect. Blood shed has already started, now either its going to be our way or talib way, these rabgroots must have thought about it, you cant think such stuff in the middle of battle, otherwise dont join army, agagin i repeat nowdays everyone is in for perks, and not for cause.

 

[F.O.X]

Tell you what! I have seen some jokers in uniform on TV, but this guy is a total clown, he never acknowledges the truth and just speaks rubbish. Duno how people lik ehim become generals, seems lost brother of Shujjat, the way he speaks, Brig cheem ai much better in terms of communicatio and intuition.

may be you should mind your language a little bit, on what grounds you can say he is rubbish??
if you dont like a person it dosent mean that no one likes him. no lalo panjo can become Gen. it a a very tough job to achive the post of general, if you are saying him Joker it means you are directly saying pakistani army jokers bcoz he is the person Pak arm choose for representing them. so think before you talk.


Regards
WILCO

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Seems like waziristan has broken the back of the troops who put their arms down.Truthfully, just to lay down their arms, because they don't want to fight their brothers is not acceptable. A court marshall and executions would be the order of the day.

The million dollar question is, that, is Musharraf capable of setting and example.

As far as DGISPR----he is being put through the school of hard knox of being the spokesman for the millitary. Couldn't have asked for a poor time to get that job. Actually it is a part of his job to give the right information at the discretion of the millitary. It is not a matter of truth or a lie, but rather what is appropriate under the circumstance.

 

[F.O.X]

NO CAUSE?????????are you sure what you saying? I dont' wana repeat what we all know about these fanatics, They did not fire a single shot cos they chose the esay way out, talibs would be treating them like guests giving them GOSHT and huqa, so they go and tell these tales to their colleeagues, more will defect. Blood shed has already started, now either its going to be our way or talib way, these rabgroots must have thought about it, you cant think such stuff in the middle of battle, otherwise dont join army, agagin i repeat nowdays everyone is in for perks, and not for cause

I stand on what i said.

On what grounds you can say that the army is wrong? wht proof you have , nothing. just commenting about anyone is very easy like cutting butter with a sharp knife, but the hard point is to prove them. if you say that the choose the easy way then still a disagree with you then dident knew how they are gona treat them after the surrender, so the only reason is that they dont want to break the peace deal. Let me remind you that in the peace deal it was agreed that pak army will not make posts or conduct operation in some of the villages & if there is anyone who is HVT in the village then the people living there will handle it over to PA.
& when Pak army enter for the purpose of shelter the people living there thought that they are here for the operation so srounded them, bcoz the PA personals have no intention to fight with them, thats why they did not fired a single bullet or other wise there would have been a disaster in the northern areas.


Regards
WILCO

 

[Shivakumar]

I stand on what i said.

.... so the only reason is that they dont want to break the peace deal. Let me remind you that in the peace deal it was agreed that pak army will not make posts or conduct operation in some of the villages & if there is anyone who is HVT in the village then the people living there will handle it over to PA.

What I heard is that the tribes have already broken then peace deal.

 

[F.O.X]

What I heard is that the tribes have already broken then peace deal.

It was renewed recently.



Regards
WILCO

 

[Shivakumar]

It was renewed recently.



Regards
WILCO

Ok. Thanks for the information.

 

[karpov]

may be you should mind your language a little bit, on what grounds you can say he is rubbish??
if you dont like a person it dosent mean that no one likes him. no lalo panjo can become Gen. it a a very tough job to achive the post of general, if you are saying him Joker it means you are directly saying pakistani army jokers bcoz he is the person Pak arm choose for representing them. so think before you talk.
Regards
WILCO

When whole world is laughing at you and your country is being destroyed then mind your language thing is least important evnethough i have used rather acceptable term to describr your fav general. anyways i dont agree with you that a criticism on few generals or rangroots will lead to insult of army. Broaden your perspective please. So u think Gen Yahya and Gen Niazi, the embarrassment they brought on us should reflect the whole army's image. I DONT THINK SO. But i agree that personally he got nothing to do with all wat s going on, he s just saying what he s supposed to, he would be a good man but he s dissapointing especially in lal masjid issue. previous one was better ( the one who dragged journalisits in a press conference by holding their hair)

 

[karpov]

I stand on what i said.

On what grounds you can say that the army is wrong? wht proof you have , nothing. just commenting about anyone is very easy like cutting butter with a sharp knife, but the hard point is to prove them. if you say that the choose the easy way then still a disagree with you then dident knew how they are gona treat them after the surrender, so the only reason is that they dont want to break the peace deal. Let me remind you that in the peace deal it was agreed that pak army will not make posts or conduct operation in some of the villages & if there is anyone who is HVT in the village then the people living there will handle it over to PA.
& when Pak army enter for the purpose of shelter the people living there thought that they are here for the operation so srounded them, bcoz the PA personals have no intention to fight with them, thats why they did not fired a single bullet or other wise there would have been a disaster in the northern areas.
Regards
WILCO

Look, this is not a court room wher i start giving you evidence, my evidence is thhe facts that you see/read on media every day (most recent pindi cantt bombs), and as far as peace dela is concerned, it s such a complicated and twisted deal that no one would know what exactly s going on its backdrop. IMO this deal s a failed strategy as far as combating militancy in fata is concerend. Politically, yes it might have brought some favors to musharraf. GLobally all neutral experts are saying that this has hurt more then bring relief to Pak as well as world. Most FC guys are from those areas and must have internal contacts with militants so they would very much know what was going to be done with them. When you are in for fight then FIGHT. DONT surrender . Musharraf s just playing a game with the west and this doubl eedge sword will soon start hurting Pak, leave aside him. And please dont give me this crap of chasing HVT as you cant distinguish there between frnd and foe as all dudes carry Ak-47s and RPGs. When British army couldnt control them how can we? Through peace dela? yea right!

 

[IceCold]

Why in the world have we all the problems? one problem isnt over, here comes another one. Lalmasjid, suicide bombing within the captial, kidnaping and abduction of the army personal, growing tailban influence, political turmoil are just few of the problems mentioned that we are facing currently after the current government decided to joint WOT. I wonder when the government says that joining wot was actually infavour of pakistan and then on the other hand we see the problems faced by pakistan currently and even the threat that the current government was avoiding ( Direct US attack ) seems now inevitable, why did we join this war? Was is worth all the trouble that we have faced and will face in the future. I guess not.
Every country in the world sees her interest first and then others, we on the other hand do the opposite. Going against the tailban in afghanistan has resulted in destabilizing pakistan, Before that pakistanies didnt even knew what suicide bombing is and now they are facing it, the army didnt had to put up weapons against there own kind, India wasnt sending armed terrorists of the nothern alliance in pakistan because taliban wouldnt let them. Before we had only one threat from india, now we have from afghanistan recent example of the killings of the chinese personal. My question is was it worth it to join the wot! NO.
Most of the members here would disagree by supporting their claims on the amount of aid that we got. Well i dont disagree to that but still compare it with what we have lost and compromised against this aid? the stability of pakistan.
Most of the members here will say that if we hadnt joined it, we would be bomb back to stoned age! well what now, You think US will not bomb us well they are still thinking about bombing us and we have all read and seen the current US senators remarks most of them have stated pakistan and its nuclear weapons as a threat, my question again was it worth! Hell No. We couldnt even convince the americans about the nuclear deal yet we are fighting their war with absolutely no benefit but instead more problems for pakistan.
Supporting this war has left us no where. NOwhere in the international community why because they simply dont appreciate what we have done and the sacrifies, NO where because we have created another threat for ourselves in the name of Afghanistan as we all know the current government of karzai whos playing in the hands of the RAW and CIA and the statements given by him.
SO why the hell in the world we have all the problems well simple answer to it is that we dont do things which are better for pakistan but instead things that may please others.
God save this country! Ameen