Will Waziristan break Pakistan's back?

[blain2]

Dear Blain,

What you have written is very wise. I hope accountability is the order of the Day in Pakistan. My worry is today you have a military regime in place. What will motivate them to investigate themselves ? As a patriotic citizen of my country I would be very worried if 200 British Soldiers(please note I know the difference between Paramilitary and the Military) were detained by Welsh Farmers just because they were on an exercise mission there.

Best Regards

Motivation to investigate cases of negligence, cowardice exists because if not done so, then the whole Army can take a precedence from it. My father always considered Court Martials as an essential part of the his work as an officer of the Pakistan Army (and I have seen him preside over quite a few) as they ensure discipline in the Army. This is done without any outside interference and without any outside pushing and prodding....believe me on this, the Army does not go easy on folks on the inside found breaking the discipline and ethos of the military. On top of that, officers and jawans found doing something which gives their arm or regiment a bad name are dealt with even more harshly. The Army cannot run if people are allowed to get away with this sort of stuff. I reseve my judgment about the folks in the convoy since I really don't know what transpired there.

 

[Always Neutral]

okay I am on your side. Lets not judge those 250 soldiers thru our armchair offices. Would appreciate if you come to know the truth (you seem to have inside info in the working of PA) what really happenend and how was it solved. From my experience it will take a year or two. to know the real story. Till then we await the truth.

Regards

 

[blain2]

okay I am on your side. Lets not judge those 250 soldiers thru our armchair offices. Would appreciate if you come to know the truth (you seem to have inside info in the working of PA) what really happenend and how was it solved. From my experience it will take a year or two. to know the real story. Till then we await the truth.

Regards

The problem is that before you know the real story, the likes of Ahmed Rashid and Syed Saleem Shehzad will juice up the story and make it look like these guys went over to the Talibaan

The Army on its own will never publicly reveal the exact operational circumstances but those on the inside will know who got canned (I.e. court martialled) and who got sidetracked while in the promotion zone (this is the way for making senior's heads roll).

In the Army, you get kicked out of service for losing your military ID or misplacing military property. Things of the scale being discussed here are not going to be pushed under the rug (at least inside of the Army). I am sure right now, all of the officers in the chain of command all the way up to the GoC for that particular area (under whose command these guys were) are crapping their pants.

 

[Always Neutral]

The problem is that before you know the real story, the likes of Ahmed Rashid and Syed Saleem Shehzad will juice up the story and make it look like these guys went over to the Talibaan

In the Army, you get kicked out of service for losing your military ID or misplacing military property. Things of the scale being discussed here are not going to be pushed under the rug (at least inside of the Army). I am sure right now, all of the officers in the chain of command all the way up to the GoC for that particular area (under whose command these guys were) are crapping their pants.

Blain what you say makes sense. I am just thinking aloud why would the upper command sitting in their GHQ office send these people into Waziristan without proper communication or back up ?

Also you must answer my question why PA should be scared to operate in its own country ?

I have seen most of your posts are honest and blunt unless some Indian friends upset you !

look forward to your reply.

Regards

 

[blain2]

Blain what you say makes sense. I am just thinking aloud why would the upper command sitting in their GHQ office send these people into Waziristan without proper communication or back up ?

Also you must answer my question why PA should be scared to operate in its own country ?

I have seen most of your posts are honest and blunt unless some Indian friends upset you !

look forward to your reply.

Regards

PA is not scared to operate in its own country. If PA wanted, it could smash up the tribal areas back to the stone age in a few weeks (if the capability of the PA is brought to bear on the tribes). The problem is the political lashback from such things. If you recall the reaction to the Army operation in the Red Mosque, you will realize that Army is very limited in what it can do.

Secondly, Pakistan Army is truely a national institution and as such feels loath to turning on its own people. The memories of action in East Pakistan against our own citizens weigh heavily on the minds of the leadership and also the public. Nobody in the Army wants to use his weapon on his own compatriot (most Tribals would rather be sticking with Pakistan, but there are some who have been weaned over to the other side by AQ and the Afghan Taliban cause). In such circumstances, the Army has to be very cautious as to how it approaches this problem. Using massive force will only result in more people going over to the other side. Every single time someone in the tribal area dies, his brother, son, father, uncle, cousin wants to avenge his killing. This is the culture in the region. So anybody saying that the Army is scared etc. does not realize the lack of options in front of it. They are bending over backwards to avoid unnecessary bloodshed but also trying to ensure that outsiders do not come into the tribal areas.

This war in Afghanistan is truely not one which should involve Pakistan. Its been thrust upon Pakistan and Pakistan Army, like the rest of the nation does not want to fight it.

Blain what you say makes sense. I am just thinking aloud why would the upper command sitting in their GHQ office send these people into Waziristan without proper communication or back up ?

Again this is something that we really can't speak to as nobody knows the exact circumstances the troops and the convoy faced. Also tactical movement of troops in the region is not the job of the GHQ. Its done at the local Corps/div or even battalion level by the local commanders. Communication were intact until they were made captives. Not sure what you mean by back up here?

 

[Always Neutral]

I agree with you on most especially that Pakistan is fighting a proxy war on behalf of the USA.

So what is the longterm solution which benefits Pakistan the most in your opinion ?

Regards

 

[blain2]

A true national unity government in Afghanistan that has appropriate representation of Pashtuns and a timetable for the US to get out of Afghanistan. AQ is one thing, turning on the whole of Pashtuns under the pretext of Taliban another. While you can take action against the AQ, Taliban are a social/political phenomena. There needs to be an understanding and distinction between the two.

The fact that ISAF and US keep on lumping them together means the Pashtuns (Taliban) are kept out of the diplomacy which only leaves one path for them (militancy).

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Thanks for the clarifications Blain. You're a "one man army of information".

 

[blain2]

Not at all Agnostic, reading and learning just the same as others.

 

[F.O.X]

When whole world is laughing at you and your country is being destroyed then mind your language thing is least important evnethough i have used rather acceptable term to describr your fav general. anyways i dont agree with you that a criticism on few generals or rangroots will lead to insult of army. Broaden your perspective please. So u think Gen Yahya and Gen Niazi, the embarrassment they brought on us should reflect the whole army's image. I DONT THINK SO. But i agree that personally he got nothing to do with all wat s going on, he s just saying what he s supposed to, he would be a good man but he s dissapointing especially in lal masjid issue. previous one was better ( the one who dragged journalisits in a press conference by holding their hair)

I dont know what do you think of Army or how much do you know about history, but let me clear few thing for you.

1. The whole world is laughing on us bcoz of the attitude of our people not our army, we are the ones who reflect our army the are not any angels dropped from the sky they are mine & your Brothers. if we will continue saying that our army is bad then how would the world get the impression about it, look at india, israel, USA, they are also killing people inncocent one no one say them bad nobody laugh at them so Y our army, it is bcoz of us think of it.

2. You say that abusing some of the generals dont mean any thing, so my friend, the war is won by Mind not Muscle. 1 Gen can change the Fate of the nation. Look at the history they are the gen who led there armys to great victory Like Tariq-Bin-Ziad, M.Bin Qasim, Khalid-bin-waleed, Muhammad Ghaznvi, Shabu-din-ghauri, Tipu Sultan & the most glorious one is HAZRAT MUHAMMAD(P.B.U.H).
the point i want to explain is that is the to the leader who lead there men wisely to the Victory or to the death.

Perhaps you should now think again the statement you make. if you hate anyone you have to give basis on what you hate anyone, by just making a statement dosent solve the problem.


Regards
WILCO

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

A true national unity government in Afghanistan that has appropriate representation of Pashtuns and a timetable for the US to get out of Afghanistan. AQ is one thing, turning on the whole of Pashtuns under the pretext of Taliban another. While you can take action against the AQ, Taliban are a social/political phenomena. There needs to be an understanding and distinction between the two.

The fact that ISAF and US keep on lumping them together means the Pashtuns (Taliban) are kept out of the diplomacy which only leaves one path for them (militancy).

I agree with your point of having an Afghan Government representative of all Afghan ethnicities and political spectrums (Taliban as well). However, a simultaneous effort to disarm and include the Taliban (on our side) into a political process will be necessary for sustainable peace - but does the current administrative structure in FATA even allow for a peaceful integration of the Taliban?

As you mentioned, the Taliban are a social/political phenomenon with an enormous amount of conviction in their beliefs as well as the determination to spread them. They are not going to simply fade away, whether NATO stays or leaves. The existing power structure of political agents and maliks is not going to be tolerated by them and indeed will probably provide them with the excuse to continue to use force to propogate their beliefs.

I am not even sure what basis the Government can currently negotiate on. Give up your arms, and your beliefs and vanish into oblivion, while the area continues to be administered by political agents and hereditary maliks? How about the giving the elected FATA members in parliament a say? What about allowing the residents to "elect" their local administrators? Perhaps then they would have some sort of process into which the Taliban can channel all that conviction and determination, some alternative to violence, to bring about the change they believe in.

 

[EagleEyes]

Waheed Arshad is not a joker! Have some respect for the seniors.

Waheed Arshad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your not getting the information right, because you are not suppose to!

 

[karpov]

I dont know what do you think of Army or how much do you know about history, but let me clear few thing for you.

1. The whole world is laughing on us bcoz of the attitude of our people not our army, we are the ones who reflect our army the are not any angels dropped from the sky they are mine & your Brothers. if we will continue saying that our army is bad then how would the world get the impression about it, look at india, israel, USA, they are also killing people inncocent one no one say them bad nobody laugh at them so Y our army, it is bcoz of us think of it.

2. You say that abusing some of the generals dont mean any thing, so my friend, the war is won by Mind not Muscle. 1 Gen can change the Fate of the nation. Look at the history they are the gen who led there armys to great victory Like Tariq-Bin-Ziad, M.Bin Qasim, Khalid-bin-waleed, Muhammad Ghaznvi, Shabu-din-ghauri, Tipu Sultan & the most glorious one is HAZRAT MUHAMMAD(P.B.U.H).
the point i want to explain is that is the to the leader who lead there men wisely to the Victory or to the death.

Perhaps you should now think again the statement you make. if you hate anyone you have to give basis on what you hate anyone, by just making a statement dosent solve the problem.


Regards
WILCO

First of all let me say that i might have much more love for our forces then you or any 1 else, you just cant know.
WEll your reaction to my comments is a typical outlook of our nations's attitude nowdays. We dont face the truth, rather change it and twist it , and then force others to accept it in form of propaganda. The point was criticism of few personal cant be taken as insult of the institute. Nodoubt generals are strong and can hange nations' fate ( ours a prime example). And let me tell you WE ARE NOT ONES WHO REFLECT OUR ARMY. This is laughable, and i havent said our army is bad, the argurement was about those soldiers who surrendered, not the army.
So whatever was discussion you didnt counter it with any logical comment, you are replying and disagreeing just for the sake of it! And what makes you say that i hate any1. You are just bending my statemnts and putting them in ure own way!

 

[karpov]

Waheed Arshad is not a joker! Have some respect for the seniors.

Waheed Arshad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Your not getting the information right, because you are not suppose to!

Yea my apologies maybe i used the wrong word!
WEll to your last point, why was he dening on TV the kidnapping of those soldeirs when the international media plus national was saying it indeed had happened, he gave us story of weather trouble and communication. If he could he would have denied it all the way.

 

[Always Neutral]

are they free yet ? Otherwise the bad weather theory will be hard to maintain.