Why Punjabis in Pakistan Have Abandoned Punjabi

[Joe Shearer]

Punjabis of East Punjab primarily Sikhs and Muslims they are a minority there, the onslaught on their culture, language and religious values was relentless. It was particularly very strong during the indira and following era, sikhs did realize it post golden temple era.

I have lived in the Punjab for a total of five years. I was astonished to read what you wrote above. There was absolutely nothing like what you have described. On the contrary, the root of the problem was to try and trump the political domination of the Jat Sikh, working through the SGPC and its political reflection, the Shiromani Akali Dal, by creating a counterweight, a group of an even more assertive nature that outshone the Akali Dal.

Neither in the Indira Gandhi time nor afterwards did anything like this happen.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Have you ever been at the receiving end of Punjabi gaalis? Because you're one deserving candidate.

Even if a rural Punjabi girl slaps you, you will slip into coma. You should probably get married to one, and get beaten up every night. Mar khanay hi layk hai tu

LOLOL.

Let's not get our personal likes and dislikes into the discussion. What he wrote was absolutely in sync with what you did, but, I suppose, nothing succeeds like excess.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

I want to ask these keepers of Punjabi, how many great poets have they produced? How many are there today? What new literary styles have they introduced? I am not saying they dont have any contribution to language but please this bullshit has got to stop. These fourth rate songs in bollywood DO NOT COUNT as contributions to Punjabi.
Anwar Masood alone outclasses any and everything from across the border. And he will go down in history as one of the great poets of Language in modern times and overall.

This is a very GOOD point, and I actually agree with you.

Tbf, that literary Punjabi environment does exist even in Indian Punjab, at least in the universities. It's just that the Punjabis on Indian side aren't too interested in connecting with that side of their cultures. Certainly the Hindus aren't: the Sikhs do. But even then: not all Sikhs. Many are very much integrated with the Hindus.

So we all can agree that Pakistan-side Punjab continues to produce better poets in Punjabi language, although we haven't heard of them.

I'll later check out that video when I have a large Patiala drink poured out to me.

 

[Ace of Spades]

So here is my take, being native to Central Punjab and growing up in a village in that area, plus spending considerable time in both Faisalabad and Lahore, along with neighboring cities.

Punjabi is not in danger at all. Actually it is the preferred form of communication by all Punjabis and even Non-Punjabis living in Punjab. In Punjab, it is the lingua franca.

I know you have some burger elites who don't like it, but vast vast majority of Punjabis speak excellent Punjabi.

In Pakistan, our culture is very natural and down to earth. You never feel that it is forced. This is why I love Pakistani culture, because of its authenticity.

Even when I go to other parts of Pakistan, sometimes I will have people try to converse with me in Punjabi because they have so much love for our language. As soon as I say I am from Faisalabad, every single Pakistani's eyes light up, whether in the length and breadth of Pakistan or in the diaspora.

As for Sikh Punjabi, their language is very different and I don't really want to delve deeply as they have many, many issues within their society which we don't share.

I still believe strongly that Pakistani Punjabis have more similarities to Pukhtoon, Pahari, Hindkowan, Seraikis, and Kashmiris than Sikhs, including language.

As you rightly mentioned that majority converse in Punjabi in Punjab. However, it's our mother tongue and as a policy there has to be projection of it. In education, offices and governmental level. It must be compulsory language and medium of instruction in Punjab. Urdu must be taught as a second language along with English

 

[Shantanu_Left]

I have traveled to dozens of countries and have never met a Sikh who would speak any language except the local language (

It's actually a good observation that I concur with. But most of these Sikhs aren't FOB's: They have lived outside India for 1-2, sometimes 2-3 generations.

The ones left behind in India follow a very different culture.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

I've also reported this thread now for blatant malevolent intent.

Discussion of the merits or otherwise of teaching certain languages as a priority over other languages is in itself a great discussion, one which is good to have in any country. However, it is clear to me and others now that this thread is not designed to stimulate intellectual discussion in this regard in the interests of punjabis, Pakistanis or anyone. Rather, this thread and the Indian visitations to it are mainly intended to create discord.

Interestingly, I see zero discord achieved between Pakistanis whatsoever on this thread. So, nice try, but we really don't deal with language dramas the way you lot do. Please don't try to drag us down to your level.

Please check my clarifications and endorsements as well.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Certainly are how own views, as they don't resemble reality in any way shape or form.
Punjabi is spoken by tens of millions as a main tongue in a variety of environments e.g. from business to home life. Outside Punjab variants extend all the way to Kashmir and to khyber pakhtunkhwa.
Much of the greatest poetry, a great deal of it with religious themes (Islamic Sufism) written in the sub-continent has been in the form of exquisite Punjabi e.g. Bulleh Shah(ra). It's not a raw zaban at all, and has many variations.

Tell how many languages can rock your heart like this;

Punjabi the heritage of Pakistan, one of our mother tongues, period.

Waz...

It's a beautiful vid. I'll check it out later.

TBH, all the discord and confusion is due to Indians lack of understanding of why Urdu is official language in Punjab province. In India, it doesn't work the same way. Any attempts to push Hindi in non-Hindi states is met with serious backlash.

So they fail to understand the Pakistani narrative because their minds are consumed with Indian generalizations. Let's not prevent Indian users from coming to this thread: it's for them to gain understanding and correct their lack of information.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

What we have in east Punajb is bastarized language and culture of changar and mirasis.

@waz

Now do you think this is a good post? It's becoming very difficult for Indians and Pakistanis to talk civilly.

BTW, being a "mirasi" isn't a serious crime across our side of the Wagah border.

 

[Shantanu_Left]

What u r getting mad about is that I called modern day Hindi a bastardized version of Urdu. If it helps I can change that to say modern day Hindi is a bastardized version of Hindustani...would that help u calm down?

I say it all the time, and there is a thread on that.

But yes, "Hindustani" would be the correct word if you're talking about the 18th century India.

 

[El Sidd]

Any benefit of making Punjabi a compulsory language. Anyone who can read and write can also read and write Punjabi. And Urdu and Punjabi are very similar to each other isliye punjabis k liye Urdu and Punjabi main parhna aik jaisa hi ha.

Indian Punjabi stupid si lgti ha. Unkay accents strange sa hain

Punjabi khatray me hai

 

[Shantanu_Left]

Nonsense. Educated people from all walks of life have no problem speaking Punjabi in public, especially within Punjab.



There are entire degrees based on different aspects of the language. It is not taught until beyond high school because our education system is defunct. Also the reason why other languages were not taught in school until the government made it compulsory only recently. Even then, they are only being taught by a hand full of schools.



Waris Shah, Bulleh Shah, Fariduddin Ganjshakar, Khwaja Ghulam Farid, and Shah Hussain are massive literary icons who wrote mostly in Punjabi. Their work is a part of almost every household in Pakistan. Btw, Iqbal wrote in Punjabi as well.



Same reason why all the other provincial assemblies use Urdu as well; it is the official language.



.........the Pakistani movie industry, for the longest time, was standing on Punjabi movies. There are plenty of Punjabi channels out there as well.



That's all wrong. Your entire argument is based on falsified facts.

Dear Moderator

A lot of Indians are really ill-informed about the internal stuff of Punjab. It's a myopic ignorance similar to what Americans have about the rest of the world. Unfortunately it is a fact which cannot be changed.

This thread is devolving into a slanging match between the two countries yet again. Whereas it can be a great thread to correct the misinformation.

I myself don't know a lot about Pakistan-Punjab despite being an Indian side Punjabi (on my father side).

Regards

 

[Ace of Spades]

Any benefit of making Punjabi a compulsory language. Anyone who can read and write can also read and write Punjabi. And Urdu and Punjabi are very similar to each other isliye punjabis k liye Urdu and Punjabi main parhna aik jaisa hi ha.

Since it's lingua franca for Punjabis. Will help in retaining, promotion of education in Punjab. You won't see state pushing kids in US to study text books in french or dutch and vice versa. Local languages are best medium of instruction and promote critical learning as students can express themselves freely.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

Have you ever been at the receiving end of Punjabi gaalis? Because you're one deserving candidate.

Even if a rural Punjabi girl slaps you, you will slip into coma. You should probably get married to one, and get beaten up every night. Mar khanay hi layk hai tu

So resorting to soft insults? Bolo kya itna frustrating hai mere post mai.
Don't beat about the bush but come to the point.

You are speaking random things without any justification. Hence reported.

@AgNoStiC MuSliM @waz Please look into some of his posts where he insults people personally and has a habit of doing it again and again with several posters.

 

[El Sidd]

can express themselves freely.

But whose hearing them? lol

 

[Ace of Spades]

But whose hearing them? lol

neither local teachers are comfortable, neither kids. And that's already a big reason for student drop out in rural punjab.