Why does Iran have no influence over Afghanistan?

[Prechko]

whats wrong with saying backward persian speaking Afghan warlords like Dostam and Co? arent they?

General Abdul Rashid Dostum is ethnic Uzbek.

 

[Desert Fox]

Our definitions on lack of tolerance are worlds apart. Let's not talk about lack of tolerance.
I didn't insult any sect, country or ethnic group in my post,so saying that I have 'sectarian' hatred is not true in anyway, and if by calling current Taliban's ideology who tries to murder a 16 year old girl for defending women's ecucation, a backward ideology, I become a sectarian person, let's be it.

Agreed.

I never said Taliban's opponents didn't commit crimes, because they did.But the point is they barely have any influence or organization now and also, their crimes aren't more than Taliban's or as famous as them. Taliban today is the strongest extremist group in Afghanistan. We are not talking about Soviet invasion era or 10 years ago, we are talking about present situation and future of Afghanistan.

Here's where you're slightly wrong. Afghanistan as a country is very backwards with regards to education and "equal opportunities for women", "women's equality", etc. Regardless if you're talking about Taliban, Northern Alliance, or Pashtuns, Tajiks, Hazaras, Turkmens, etc.


The current Afghan gov.t setup consists of mostly Northern Alliance. And despite that, most of these officials are against any laws being passed for the improvement of women's rights in Afghanistan.

The only difference between the Taliban and the NA is that the former is an enemy of the West for which it got (and still gets) bad press while the latter assisted in the NATO occupation of Afghanistan and thus is on the West's good list (for now).

Same way the West portrays Al-Qaeda affiliated groups as "revolutionaries" struggling to bring "democracy" in Libya and now Syria while the same people are terrorists in Afghanistan.

Taliban today is the strongest extremist group in Afghanistan. We are not talking about Soviet invasion era or 10 years ago, we are talking about present situation and future of Afghanistan.

Taliban is not the "strongest" extremist group in Afghanistan, the NA is. However Taliban is the strongest anti-gov.t opposition force in Afghanistan.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

The GCC nations have a very heavy influence over the Arab world, and Arabs have created a league representing their interests. Why does Iran not focus on exerting its influence over Iranic nations (presently under Saudi influence), instead of Arab ones?

What makes you believe that Iran has no influence in Afghanistan?

 

[Desert Fox]

Talibanism is a backward ideology exported to Afghanistan by foreign countries and most of regular Afghan citizens despise it actually or act indifferent about it.
For 2 reason, it has still influence: 1.Central hovernment is not strong enough due to foreign military presence and 2.Taliban uses violence and religious extremism as its mean to gain influence and hegemony in Afghanistan.

Taliban ideology is backwards, no doubt. But it was the barbarity of the now Northern Alliance which acted as a catalyst for the formation of the Taliban movement and its expansion into Afghanistan.

When Afghanistan starts to devolop, Taliban will slowly diminish, because where prosperity comes, backwardness leaves.

And when exactly will Afghanistan start to develop? Because problem is, when you have different countries willing to arm different groups to forward their own agendas, thus adding fuel to the fire, "developing" becomes a distant dream.

Afghanistan is a land locked country. All of Afghanistan's immediate neighboring countries need to play a proactive role in disarming their backed militant organizations and push these rival factions to make some compromises in order to form a strong central government.

There is a way for Taliban to have a place in Afghanistan and it's this: They should leave their extremism, repect the rights of all Afghans equally, including women and Shiites and to actually care about advancement of Afghanistan.

Taliban isn't the only faction in Afghanistan with blood on its hands. Every faction needs to make compromises. And not all factions opposing the Taliban are necessarily "women rights" friendly.

 

[Desert Fox]

i think you are picking the wrong bones here .

let me rephrase it so that you do not misinterpret it.


Iranian backed Persian speaking Afghan warlods aka NA Vs Pakistani backed pashto speaking Taliban both are as backward as anything.

and i had said NOTHING wrong for which i should standback

You just had to rephrase your sentence.

 

[Serpentine]

@Desert Fox: I do agree that no side in Afghanistan is completely innocent, but I don't think Taliban's crimes are lesser than those of NA. Afghans first showed support for Taliban in 1996 because they thought it could end the civil war, but they were wrong, it was worse than the civil war itself.Taliban systematically targetted and massacared Hazaras, Shias and other ethnic group and killed thousands of them (not the fighters, I'm talking about civilians).They killed 8 Iranian diplomats after they formed the government, they declared very strict and ridiculous rules like women being unable to leave houses without a male and many other similar examples. Yes the NA,before formation of Taliban is not innocent either, but they were better than their opponents. Ahmad Shah Masood, which my country assisted his group the most, was much better than his opponents.
Taliban was created not because of NA specifically, but for the long lasting civil war and foreign support,fund and ideology coming from other countries. Imo, the main reason that Afghanistan is what it is today, is not Taliban or NA, but it all started after the Soviet invasion.Before that, Afghanistan wasn't a backward country.

 

[BATMAN]

The ideology of persian speaking barbaric warlords exported by Iran is twice the backward as that of Taliban.

The Taliban ideology born out of barbarism by these Iranian backed warlords therefore instead of talking emotionalism we must realise the fact that Afghanistan is bleeding everybody around because everybody around is not willing to accept the legitimate interests of other, with Iran on the top.

Time for Iran to sit down with Pakistan and Afghanistan and the three must take interests of each other into account. Thats the way otherwise we are going to bleed for nothing.



NOT countries but the shiite population. Iran very systematically fund and support them. My country is one example where we are suffring from funding to two groups by Iran and Saudia.

I have only sympathies for such a great nation.
May Allah, help them.

 

[TheThreePashas]

Iran does have influence. Persian influence spreads throughout the Greater Middle East in a softer way. Persian culture is very highly respected from my knowledge and even in Turkey. For example, the Turkish Language authorities removed as much arabic as possible from Turkish during the times of Atatürk but didn't bother with the Farsi words so much.



I'll tell you what the problem in Afganistan is though. It's become such a poor country through the years that it costs very little to arm militants there. Anyone can play superpower and fund a group.

 

[Desert Fox]

@<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=23101" target="_blank">Desert Fox</a></u>: I do agree that no side in Afghanistan is completely innocent, but I don't think Taliban's crimes are lesser than those of NA. Afghans first showed support for Taliban in 1996 because they thought it could end the civil war, but they were wrong, it was worse than the civil war itself.Taliban systematically targetted and massacared Hazaras, Shias and other ethnic group and killed thousands of them (not the fighters, I'm talking about civilians).They killed 8 Iranian diplomats after they formed the government, they declared very strict and ridiculous rules like women being unable to leave houses without a male and many other similar examples. Yes the NA,before formation of Taliban is not innocent either, but they were better than their opponents. Ahmad Shah Masood, which my country assisted his group the most, was much better than his opponents.
Taliban was created not because of NA specifically, but for the long lasting civil war and foreign support,fund and ideology coming from other countries. Imo, the main reason that Afghanistan is what it is today, is not Taliban or NA, but it all started after the Soviet invasion.Before that, Afghanistan wasn't a backward country.

Watch this documentary from 0:20:39 onwards:

The criminal actions of the same militants who now make up the NA acted as the catalyst for the Taliban movement. We don't hear of the atrocities committed by the NA because they form the gov.t of Karzai who himself is a ally of the freedom and liberty promoting Western Democracies.

I'm sure they have committed crimes just as worse as the Taliban before the rise of the Taliban movement and after its fall in 2001. I've even read of accounts of the NA taking revenge on Pashtun majority areas of Northern and Eastern Afghanistan once they had gained the upper hand against the Taliban with the support of NATO.

Regarding Taliban's views of women's role in society being limited to the kitchen, well, this mentality is prevalent throughout the whole of Afghanistan. Agreed that Taliban were brutal and they still are, but the other groups are not better, even if they are 0.01% less strict.

 

[Cheetah786]

Spring Onion=The ideology of Persian speaking barbaric warlords exported by Iran is twice the backward as that of Terrorist Taliban.

=Spring Onion;4530352]1. Persian speaking backwards brutal warlords are as backwards as Terrorist Taliban. Is there any doubt?

well kind off which is it twice or same i am so confused

did i say anything wrong?

I dont no spring onion you tell me.

 

[TheThreePashas]

La olum sen malmisin? Ne bu Fars sevdan nerden geliyor. Sence bunlar seni çokmu seviyor?

Mal olan sensin. Ayr&#305;ca bilmeyebilrsin ama "la" gibi sözler kullanmak çok kro ve dü&#351;ük seviyeli insanlar&#305;n kulland&#305;&#287;&#305; bir&#351;eydir. A&#287;z&#305;n&#305; topla



Me respecting Persian culture has nothing to do with Iranians liking me or viceversa. Turkish culture is a beautiful but nomadic culture thus we've adopted influence from Persian fine arts and such. Why the hell do you think the Ottomans used so much Farsi?

Don't go acting like the nationalist. Bende ülkücüyüm fakat baz&#305; gerçekler var.

I can respect Iran all I want. I'm not even pro-Iran, smart one

 

[TheThreePashas]

Sen misin ülkücü? Yiyim senin gibi ülkücüyü. Olum lâ Ankara'da kullan&#305;l&#305;r kiro ile alakas&#305; ney yok. Sen bi yazd&#305;klar&#305;na bir bak sonra bidaha dü&#351;ün. Ayr&#305;ca tarihtende hiç haberin yok. Ozamanlar Fars bile yoktu, sadece farkl&#305; türk imparatorluklar&#305; vard&#305;, nerden Fars oluyormu&#351;.

Sanki ankara k&#305;ro dolu de&#287;il? (Edit:Ankara asla k&#305;ro de&#287;il) haha

Sen gerizekal&#305; m&#305;s&#305;n? Achaemenid Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



For those of you that don't speak Turkish, this idiot is saying that in the time of the Ottomans, Persia didn't exist therefore theres no way they used Farsi words with Turkish....

Iranian forum members, while as a ethnic Turkish nationalist this goes against my principles.... Kill him please. Lol.

 

[Serpentine]

Watch this documentary from 0:20:39 onwards:

The criminal actions of the same militants who now make up the NA acted as the catalyst for the Taliban movement. We don't hear of the atrocities committed by the NA because they form the gov.t of Karzai who himself is a ally of the freedom and liberty promoting Western Democracies.

I'm sure they have committed crimes just as worse as the Taliban before the rise of the Taliban movement and after its fall in 2001. I've even read of accounts of the NA taking revenge on Pashtun majority areas of Northern and Eastern Afghanistan once they had gained the upper hand against the Taliban with the support of NATO.

Regarding Taliban's views of women's role in society being limited to the kitchen, well, this mentality is prevalent throughout the whole of Afghanistan. Agreed that Taliban were brutal and they still are, but the other groups are not better, even if they are 0.01% less strict.

War crimes of NA (note that Iran supported Ahmad Shah Masood the most rather than other factions in NA), that's why I'm not solely defending NA, it had different factions and my country specifically helped Ahmad Shah Masood and his group, rather than Dostum or Rabbani fighters, I don't deny that NA also committed crimes (the 2 latter groups mostly), but you can't deny that Ahmad Shah Masood was the best leader the most humane one during Afghan civil war. Maybe @Sher Malang or other Afghan members can clarify a little more.
Anyway, it's all past.We like it or not , Afghanistan is what it is today, and many countries, including Pakistan, Iran and India have interests in it. The best solution is that we sit with each other and reach a deal, because as you said, until we don't agree on something, Afghanistan won't be a stable country and a stable Afghanistan is the best thing for all of us, especially for Iran that is paying the most from drug trafficking and refugees. Pakistan too is suffering from instability in Afghanistan. We should help each other and Afghan government to destroy extremist elements in all factions and reach a solution and national unity and it will happen only and only if Afghans themselves want to do it eagerly.

Area of Ahmad Shah Massoud
Massoud controlled the Panjshir area, some other parts of Parwan and Thakar province. Some parts of Badakshan were under his influence while others were controlled by Burhanuddin Rabbani with whom Massoud had some disputes. Badakshan was the home region of Rabbani.
Massoud created institutions which were structured into several committees: political, health, education and economic.[14] In the area of Massoud women and girls were allowed to work and to go to school,[14] and in at least two known instances Massoud personally intervened against cases of forced marriage.[14] Women also did not have to wear the Afghan burqa.[14] While it was Massoud's stated conviction that men and women are equal and should enjoy the same rights, he also had to deal with Afghan traditions which he said would need a generation or more to overcome. In his opinion that could only be achieved through education.[14]
Hundreds of thousands of Afghans fled from the Taliban to the areas controlled by Massoud.[55] There was a huge humanitarian problem as there was not enough to eat for both the existing population and the internally displaced Afghans. In 2001, Massoud and a French journalist described the bitter situation of the displaced people and asked for humanitarian help.[55]

Area of Abdul Rashid Dostum[edit]
Until the conquest of Balkh by the Taliban in 1998, Abdul Rashid Dostum controlled the following provinces: Samangan, Balkh, Jowzjan, Faryab, and Baghlan provinces. According to Human Rights Watch many of the violations of international humanitarian law committed by the United Front forces date from 1996-1998[22] when Dostum controlled most of the north.
According to Human Rights Watch in 1997, some 3,000 captured Taliban soldiers were summarily executed in and around Mazar-i Sharif by Dostum's Junbish forces under the command of Abdul Malik Pahlawan. The killings followed Malik's withdrawal from a brief alliance with the Taliban and the capture of the Taliban forces who were trapped in the city.[22] With the U.S. War on Terror, troops loyal to Dostum also returned to combat. In December 2001, during the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, between 250 and 3,000 (depending on sources) Taliban prisoners were shot and/or suffocated to death in metal truck containers. The prisoners were killed while being transferred from Kunduz to Sheberghan. This became known as the Dasht-i-Leili massacre[56] In 2009, Dostum denied the accusations.[57][58][59]
Dostum belonged to those commanders making their own, often draconian, laws. Human Rights Watch has released documents alleging widespread crimes targeted against the civilian population.[22] Human Rights Watch asked to actively discourage and refuse support in any way to any group or coalition that includes commanders with a record of serious violations of international humanitarian law standards, specifically naming Abdul Rashid Dostum; Haji Muhammad Muhaqqiq, a senior commander of the Hezb-i Wahdat; Abdul Rasul Sayyaf, leader of the erstwhile Ittihad-i Islami; and Abdul Malik Pahlawan, a former senior Junbish commander.

War crimes of Taliban:

Massacre campaigns
According to a 55-page report by the United Nations, the Taliban, while trying to consolidate control over northern and western Afghanistan, committed systematic massacres against civilians.[27][28] UN officials stated that there had been "15 massacres" between 1996 and 2001.[27][28] They also said, that "[t]hese have been highly systematic and they all lead back to the [Taliban] Ministry of Defense or to Mullah Omar himself."[27][28] "These are the same type of war crimes as were committed in Bosnia and should be prosecuted in international courts", one UN official was quoted as saying.[27] The documents also reveal the role of Arab and Pakistani support troops in these killings.[27][28] Bin Laden's so-called 055 Brigade was responsible for mass-killings of Afghan civilians.[22] The report by the United Nations quotes "eyewitnesses in many villages describing Arab fighters carrying long knives used for slitting throats and skinning people".[27][28] The Taliban's former ambassador to Pakistan, Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef, in late 2011 stated that cruel behaviour under and by the Taliban had been "necessary".[150]
In 1998, the United Nations accused the Taliban of denying emergency food by the UN's World Food Programme to 160,000 hungry and starving people "for political and military reasons".[151] The UN said the Taliban were starving people for their military agenda and using humanitarian assistance as a weapon of war.
On August 8, 1998 the Taliban launched an attack on Mazar-i Sharif. Of 1500 defenders only 100 survived the engagement. Once in control the Taliban began to kill people indiscriminately. At first shooting people in the street, they soon began to target Hazaras. Women were raped, and thousands of people were locked in containers and left to suffocate. This ethnic cleansing left an estimated 5,000 to 6,000 dead.[72][152] At this time ten Iranian diplomats and a journalist were killed. Iran assumed the Taliban had murdered them, and mobilized its army, deploying men along the border with Afghanistan. By the middle of September there were 250,000 Iranian personal stationed on the border. Pakistan mediated and the bodies were returned to Tehran towards the end of the month. The killings of the Diplomats had been carried out by Sipah-e-Sahaba a Pakistani Sunni group with close ties to the ISI.[99][153] They burned orchards, crops and destroyed irrigation systems, and forced more than 100,000 people from their homes with hundreds of men, women and children still unaccounted for.[154]
In a major effort to retake the Shomali plains from the United Front, the Taliban indiscriminately killed civilians, while uprooting and expelling the population. Among others, Kamal Hossein, a special reporter for the UN, reported on these and other war crimes. The city of Istalif i. e. was home to more than 45,000 people. In Istalif the Taliban gave 24 hours notice to the population to leave, then completely razed the town leaving the people destitute.[31][155]
In 1999 the town of Bamian was taken, hundreds of men, women and children were executed. Houses were razed and some were used for forced labor.[156] There was a further massacre at the town of Yakaolang in January 2001. An estimated 300 people were murdered, along with two delegations of Hazara elders who had tried to intercede.[14]
By 1999, the Taliban had forced hundreds of thousands of people from the Shomali Plains and other regions conducting a policy of scorched earth burning homes, farm land and gardens.[31]
Human trafficking
Several Taliban and Al-Qaeda commanders ran a network of human trafficking, abducting women and selling them into sex slavery in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[157] Time Magazine writes: "The Taliban often argued that the brutal restrictions they placed on women were actually a way of revering and protecting the opposite sex. The behavior of the Taliban during the six years they expanded their rule in Afghanistan made a mockery of that claim."[157]
The targets for human trafficking were especially women from the Tajik, Uzbek, Hazara and other ethnic groups in Afghanistan. Some women preferred to commit suicide over slavery, killing themselves. During one Taliban and Al-Qaeda offensive in 1999 in the Shomali Plains alone, more than 600 women were kidnapped.[157] Taliban as well as Arab and Pakistani Al-Qaeda militants forced them into trucks and buses.[157] Time Magazine writes: "The trail of the missing Shomali women leads to Jalalabad, not far from the Pakistan border. There, according to eyewitnesses, the women were penned up inside Sar Shahi camp in the desert. The more desirable among them were selected and taken away. Some were trucked to Peshawar with the apparent complicity of Pakistani border guards. Others were taken to Khost, where bin Laden had several training camps." Officials from relief agencies say, the trail of many of the vanished women leads to Pakistan where they were sold to brothels or into private households to be kept as slaves.[157]
Some local Taliban commanders were opposed to the human trafficking ordered and conducted by their leaders. One Taliban commander, Nuruludah, is quoted as saying that he and his men freed some women which were being abducted by Pakistani members of Al-Qaeda.[157] A few local Taliban in Jalalabad also freed women that were being held by other Taliban and members of Al-Qaeda in a camp.[157]

Oppression of women


Taliban religious police beating a woman in Kabul on August 26, 2001.[158]
To PHR's knowledge, no other regime in the world has methodically and violently forced half of its population into virtual house arrest, prohibiting them on pain of physical punishment.[159]
&#8212;Physicians for Human Rights, 1998
The Taliban were condemned internationally for their brutal repression of women.[62][160] In 2001 Laura Bush in a radio address condemned the Taliban's brutality to women.[161][162] In areas they controlled the Taliban issued edicts which forbade women from being educated, girls were forced to leave schools and colleges. Those who wished to leave their home to go shopping had to be accompanied by a male relative, and were required to wear the burqa, a traditional dress covering the entire body except for a small screen to see out of. Those who appeared to disobey were publicly beaten.[163] Sohaila, a young woman who was convicted of walking with a man who was not a relative, was charged with adultery. She was publicly flogged in Ghazi Stadium and received 100 lashes.[164] The religious police routinely carried out inhumane abuse on women.[165] Employment for women was restricted to the medical sector, because male medical personnel were not allowed to treat women and girls. One result of the banning of employment of women by the Taliban was the closing down in places like Kabul of primary schools not only for girls but for boys, because almost all the teachers there were women.[166] Taliban restrictions became more severe after

 

[Spring Onion]

General Abdul Rashid Dostum is ethnic Uzbek.

i know the entire NA isnt composed of dostum only.

 

[Aryan Nation]

Iran's influence in Afghanistan will grow exponentially once the port which Iran-India is developing is finished. Taliban and their sympathizers have no more place in Afghanistan. Afghans are under great cultural influence by Iran. There are many Persian brothers and sisters in Afghanistan and it's time we properly helped them.

Afghans will benefit so much from chah bahar and at the same time, our influence there will be grow to astonishing levels. Our influence is for positive reasons, we will help Afghans develop their country whilst others are supporting terrorists like taliban

Failed states will of course support groups like taliban. Saudis and their puppets.