Why do people believe the Universe has no purpose/cause?

[Arabian Legend]

@Thirdfront

This is your explanation, anybody who knows Arabic, even Persians can confirm this to you:

As to the Universe Expanding, the Arabic Word used by Allah Almighty is MOUSI'OONA (موسعون expanding) in Noble Verse 51:47, which is a verb of the noun WAASI'A (واسع vast). Now some might say that MOUSI'OONA only means "WE MADE IT VAST", and is not a contineous process. I respond to them by saying that the word would then have to be AWSA'NA (أوسعنا expanded or made bigger), and not the continueous action and verb MOUSI'OONA (موسعون expanding). MOUSI'OONA is clearly a verb that refers to a continuing expansion, or a happening and ongoing expansion.
................

I agree with this explanation, I know Arabic, if it was we had made it vast it would be this way : اوسعناها

@Arabian Legend @Islam shall be the winner @haman10

As for the second verse I showed you, why would people a thousand plus years ago suspect the Universe would 'fold up', basically meaning contract?

...........
@Thirdfront

Pre-1930's translations....:


1- Tafsir muqatel ibn solaiman (year AD 767)

means: we are able to expand it as we want.

تفسير مقاتل بن سليمان/ مقاتل بن سليمان (ت 150 هـ
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } [آية: 47] يعني نحن قادرون على أن نوسعها كما نريد


2- Tafsir Bahr alolum , (year 985)
means: we are able to expand it as we will.

(فسير بحر العلوم/ السمرقندي

{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } يعني نحن قادرون على أن نوسعها كما نريد


3- Tafsir alfayruz abadi (year 1414)

means : we we are expanding it as we will.

{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } لها ما نشاء

تفسير القرآن/ الفيروز آبادي (ت817


4- Tafsir Alnukat waloyon (year 1058)

means : we are able to make the heaven expanding more that it is already expanded.

تفسير النكت والعيون/ الماوردي (ت 450 ه)
الثاني: لموسعون السماء، قاله ابن زيد.

الثالث: لقادرون على الاتساع بأكثر من اتساع السماء.


5 - Tafsir Alqasemy : (year 1913 )

means: we are able to expand it, more than it is already expanded.

تفسير محاسن التأويل / محمد جمال الدين القاسمي (ت 1332هـ
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } أي: لقادرون على الإيساع، كما أوسعنا بناءها


6- Tafsir Altabarani (year 970)

means :we expand the heaven in every direction.

تفسير التفسير الكبير / للإمام الطبراني (ت 360 ـ)

{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ }؛ في السَّماء على الأرضِ في كلِّ جهاتٍ


Etc ,etc,etc .......................

The Arabic world mentioned in the Quran is in the continuous tense. So yes the Universe is in continuous expanding.

 

[haman10]

@Thirdfront

This is your explanation, anybody who knows Arabic, even Persians can confirm this to you:

As to the Universe Expanding, the Arabic Word used by Allah Almighty is MOUSI'OONA (موسعون expanding) in Noble Verse 51:47, which is a verb of the noun WAASI'A (واسع vast). Now some might say that MOUSI'OONA only means "WE MADE IT VAST", and is not a contineous process. I respond to them by saying that the word would then have to be AWSA'NA (أوسعنا expanded or made bigger), and not the continueous action and verb MOUSI'OONA (موسعون expanding). MOUSI'OONA is clearly a verb that refers to a continuing expansion, or a happening and ongoing expansion.
................

I agree with this explanation, I know Arabic, if it was we had made it vast it would be this way : اوسعناها

@Arabian Legend @Islam shall be the winner @haman10

As for the second verse I showed you, why would people a thousand plus years ago suspect the Universe would 'fold up', basically meaning contract?

...........
@Thirdfront

Pre-1930's translations....:


1- Tafsir muqatel ibn solaiman (year AD 767)

means: we are able to expand it as we want.

تفسير مقاتل بن سليمان/ مقاتل بن سليمان (ت 150 هـ
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } [آية: 47] يعني نحن قادرون على أن نوسعها كما نريد


2- Tafsir Bahr alolum , (year 985)
means: we are able to expand it as we will.

(فسير بحر العلوم/ السمرقندي

{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } يعني نحن قادرون على أن نوسعها كما نريد


3- Tafsir alfayruz abadi (year 1414)

means : we we are expanding it as we will.

{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } لها ما نشاء

تفسير القرآن/ الفيروز آبادي (ت817


4- Tafsir Alnukat waloyon (year 1058)

means : we are able to make the heaven expanding more that it is already expanded.

تفسير النكت والعيون/ الماوردي (ت 450 ه)
الثاني: لموسعون السماء، قاله ابن زيد.

الثالث: لقادرون على الاتساع بأكثر من اتساع السماء.


5 - Tafsir Alqasemy : (year 1913 )

means: we are able to expand it, more than it is already expanded.

تفسير محاسن التأويل / محمد جمال الدين القاسمي (ت 1332هـ
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } أي: لقادرون على الإيساع، كما أوسعنا بناءها


6- Tafsir Altabarani (year 970)

means :we expand the heaven in every direction.

تفسير التفسير الكبير / للإمام الطبراني (ت 360 ـ)

{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ }؛ في السَّماء على الأرضِ في كلِّ جهاتٍ


Etc ,etc,etc .......................

@Thirdfront

If I personally would literally translate it for you it would like this:

And we have the ability/are able/can spread/space/stretch/make bigger it as we wish/will.

perfect post
holy quran is very clear and education regarding the expansion of universe .

 

[Thirdfront]

@Thirdfront

This is your explanation, anybody who knows Arabic, even Persians can confirm this to you:

As to the Universe Expanding, the Arabic Word used by Allah Almighty is MOUSI'OONA (موسعون expanding) in Noble Verse 51:47, which is a verb of the noun WAASI'A (واسع vast). Now some might say that MOUSI'OONA only means "WE MADE IT VAST", and is not a contineous process. I respond to them by saying that the word would then have to be AWSA'NA (أوسعنا expanded or made bigger), and not the continueous action and verb MOUSI'OONA (موسعون expanding). MOUSI'OONA is clearly a verb that refers to a continuing expansion, or a happening and ongoing expansion.
................

I agree with this explanation, I know Arabic, if it was we had made it vast it would be this way : اوسعناها

@Arabian Legend @Islam shall be the winner @haman10

As for the second verse I showed you, why would people a thousand plus years ago suspect the Universe would 'fold up', basically meaning contract?

...........
@Thirdfront

Pre-1930's translations....:


1- Tafsir muqatel ibn solaiman (year AD 767)

means: we are able to expand it as we want.

تفسير مقاتل بن سليمان/ مقاتل بن سليمان (ت 150 هـ
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } [آية: 47] يعني نحن قادرون على أن نوسعها كما نريد


2- Tafsir Bahr alolum , (year 985)
means: we are able to expand it as we will.

(فسير بحر العلوم/ السمرقندي

{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } يعني نحن قادرون على أن نوسعها كما نريد


3- Tafsir alfayruz abadi (year 1414)

means : we we are expanding it as we will.

{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } لها ما نشاء

تفسير القرآن/ الفيروز آبادي (ت817


4- Tafsir Alnukat waloyon (year 1058)

means : we are able to make the heaven expanding more that it is already expanded.

تفسير النكت والعيون/ الماوردي (ت 450 ه)
الثاني: لموسعون السماء، قاله ابن زيد.

الثالث: لقادرون على الاتساع بأكثر من اتساع السماء.


5 - Tafsir Alqasemy : (year 1913 )

means: we are able to expand it, more than it is already expanded.

تفسير محاسن التأويل / محمد جمال الدين القاسمي (ت 1332هـ
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } أي: لقادرون على الإيساع، كما أوسعنا بناءها


6- Tafsir Altabarani (year 970)

means :we expand the heaven in every direction.

تفسير التفسير الكبير / للإمام الطبراني (ت 360 ـ)

{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ }؛ في السَّماء على الأرضِ في كلِّ جهاتٍ


Etc ,etc,etc .......................

@Thirdfront

If I personally would literally translate it for you it would like this:

And we have the ability/are able/can spread/space/stretch/make bigger it as we wish/will.

I would request you to study material before copy pasting from fan sites. This is what I call "the language tap dancing" stage. What you are doing is call all those people who translated it otherwise idiots. I don't want to post the reply of knowledgeable people to your arabic thing, all I want is english translation (as I don't know arabic). Couple of point here is, quran has word "heaven" (what is that??) not "universe". Also, it speaks of "L-MOUSI'OONA" and not "MOUSI'OONA" as you said. So, I doubt you have anything original here... same with some other people who are nodding very enthusiastically to this BS. Sorry, no points here. Also, there were many civilizations before quran already said similar things...
None of the "Tafsirs" are original quotes here, all are some others openion written in persian or arabic which I take as a sign to fool non arabic or persian speaking people. That is why I want to know only english translation.
Secondly, Big crunch has been discredited, hence what quran says is wrong, unless you come up with another twisted meaning.

 

[Falcon29]

I would request you to study material before copy pasting from fan sites. This is what I call "the language tap dancing" stage. What you are doing is call all those people who translated it otherwise idiots. I don't want to post the reply of knowledgeable people to your arabic thing, all I want is english translation (as I don't know arabic). Couple of point here is, quran has word "heaven" (what is that??) not "universe". Also, it speaks of "L-MOUSI'OONA" and not "MOUSI'OONA" as you said. So, I doubt you have anything original here... same with some other people who are nodding very enthusiastically to this BS. Sorry, no points here. Also, there were many civilizations before quran already said similar things...
None of the "Tafsirs" are original quotes here, all are some others openion written in persian or arabic which I take as a sign to fool non arabic or persian speaking people. That is why I want to know only english translation.
Secondly, Big crunch has been discredited, hence what quran says is wrong, unless you come up with another twisted meaning.

You have no rebuttal, all you did here was rant. If you want to refute it, go ahead tell us what it means in Arabic, we know what it means, it is explained. Big Crunch has not been discredited, every couple decades we move to a different theory or return to a previous one. If things kept going as they are now, then the Freeze theory should be occuring, however, nothing has been completely dismissed.You cannot literally translate arabic into english terms, there is only one version of the Quran. The word absolutely indicates expansion is occuring.

 

[Arabian Legend]

I would request you to study material before copy pasting from fan sites. This is what I call "the language tap dancing" stage. What you are doing is call all those people who translated it otherwise idiots. I don't want to post the reply of knowledgeable people to your arabic thing, all I want is english translation (as I don't know arabic). Couple of point here is, quran has word "heaven" (what is that??) not "universe". Also, it speaks of "L-MOUSI'OONA" and not "MOUSI'OONA" as you said. So, I doubt you have anything original here... same with some other people who are nodding very enthusiastically to this BS. Sorry, no points here. Also, there were many civilizations before quran already said similar things...
None of the "Tafsirs" are original quotes here, all are some others openion written in persian or arabic which I take as a sign to fool non arabic or persian speaking people. That is why I want to know only english translation.
Secondly, Big crunch has been discredited, hence what quran says is wrong, unless you come up with another twisted meaning.

Hey indian, The Quran was revealed to my people and we are the indigenous people who speak and understand the Arabic language in its pure form with all of its sophistication. Butthurt I know. Indians typical reaction whenever Islam is mentioned.

Hazzy was right in what he wrote.

 

[Falcon29]

Here are pre-1930 translations yet again: @Thirdfront

Sahih International: "And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander."
Yusafli: "With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace."
Pickthal: "We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof)."
Shakir: "And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample."
Sarwar: "We have made the heavens with Our own hands and We expanded it."
Qaribullah: "We built the heaven with might, and We widely extended it."

...........
I can also give you more detailed explanations, but, im sure you'd still find a way to dismiss it. It is for the viewers though.

 

[Arabian Legend]

Here are pre-1930 translations yet again: @Thirdfront

Sahih International: "And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander."
Yusafli: "With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace."
Pickthal: "We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof)."
Shakir: "And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample."
Sarwar: "We have made the heavens with Our own hands and We expanded it."
Qaribullah: "We built the heaven with might, and We widely extended it."

...........
I can also give you more detailed explanations, but, im sure you'd still find a way to dismiss it. It is for the viewers though.

He can look up the world in the Arabic dictionary. Problem solved.

 

[oFFbEAT]

There is no need to drag religion into this.......only common sense is required.....
The question can be asked in a completely different way i.e "Why do people believe that the Universe has a purpose".........
Since none of the questions(the OP and this one) can be logically answered as of now.....the questions are futile......

 

[Falcon29]

He can look up the world in the Arabic dictionary. Problem solved.

This will do it:

'We are expanding it' is the translation of the plural present participle musi'una of the verb ausa'a meaning 'to make wider, more spacious, to extend, to expand'.

There is no need to drag religion into this.......only common sense is required.....
The question can be asked in a completely different way i.e "Why do people believe that the Universe has a purpose".........
Since none of the questions(the OP and this one) can be logically answered as of now.....the questions are futile......

Are you insisting the Universe has no purpose? So you tell us what it is.

 

[oFFbEAT]

Are you insisting the Universe has no purpose? So you tell us what it is.

I'm not insisting upon anything since I'm not sure myself whether the Universe has any purpose or not.....
I'll believe in any one of them if it's proven scientifically/logically......or if god personally comes and tells me what to believe.....

 

[Thirdfront]

You have no rebuttal, all you did here was rant. If you want to refute it, go ahead tell us what it means in Arabic, we know what it means, it is explained. Big Crunch has not been discredited, every couple decades we move to a different theory or return to a previous one. If things kept going as they are now, then the Freeze theory should be occuring, however, nothing has been completely dismissed.You cannot literally translate arabic into english terms, there is only one version of the Quran. The word absolutely indicates expansion is occuring.

LOL.. can you quote what ibn kathir wrote about it in his tafsir? and please give me a link to originals of all the tafsirs... Big Crunch was discredited the moment hubble's observations were confirmed... sorry, you can't have it both ways, that is use his observations to claim quran told this and say it is not valid about big crunch verse... The word "absolutely" says expansion because you want it to be, otherwise earlier people were all idiots who did not know this... c'mon... and thehighlighted part is continuation of the language tap dancing....

 

[Falcon29]

@Thirdfront

You say that all other religions had the same exact concepts, please show us this. Which religions exactly and cite their concepts of the Universe here.

 

[Thirdfront]

This will do it:

'We are expanding it' is the translation of the plural present participle musi'una of the verb ausa'a meaning 'to make wider, more spacious, to extend, to expand'.



Are you insisting the Universe has no purpose? So you tell us what it is.

Nope sorry, give me a link of any pre-1930 source... one of the first tafsir has it as "Verily, We are able to extend the vastness of space thereof. And We have spread out the earth: how excellent a spreader are We!" (Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Allah swears by His Creation that the Person Who purifies Himself will be Successful It is not unusual for meaning to change as science discovers the reality....

 

[Falcon29]

LOL.. can you quote what ibn kathir wrote about it in his tafsir? and please give me a link to originals of all the tafsirs... Big Crunch was discredited the moment hubble's observations were confirmed... sorry, you can't have it both ways, that is use his observations to claim quran told this and say it is not valid about big crunch verse... The word "absolutely" says expansion because you want it to be, otherwise earlier people were all idiots who did not know this... c'mon... and thehighlighted part is continuation of the language tap dancing....

No it hasn't been, you want it to be, phantom energy could actually stop the Universe from expanding, saying the Universe is increasing its rate of expansion doesn't discredit the possibility of a contraction. Look up the arabic word yourself, look up those translations as well. How is this guy telling us our Arabic word doesn't mean 'expansion'? LOL! @Arabian Legend

 

[500]

Question about universe purpose makes sense only if universe was created by some intelligent creature (God, aliens etc).

So before asking this question u must prove first that it was created by someone with intelligence.