Why do people believe the Universe has no purpose/cause?

[Thirdfront]

Yes it does, we can discuss religion in this, you made a claim that the concept in the Quran is the same thing as all previous religions. Show this to us. There is pagan garbage then there are actual religions. You don't think so based on what? Your denial? Go search the word for yourself, i've supported the verse with the meaning of the word and what tense it was used in.




You assume things to fit your view, nobody has absolutely discredited the idea of the Universe contracting. Because we do not know if there is a wall around our Universe that will contain it's expansion. We say the Universe is open based on the law of physics due to there not being enough matter. However, you permanently are trying to discredit it, as of this day and age with what we know, yes, the Universe is expanding. These are still theories since we can never stop investigating, therefore nothing is absolutely true as of yet.

@Thirdfront

Have you ever heard about the theory that a shift in a field could cause particles to get billions times heavier and cause our Universe to collapse which will compress us into a small ball?

Ok, example from hinduism - Nasadiya Sukta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There is pagan garbage, non-pagan (actual) garbage and there is science. The meaning is "the expander", so sorry again, can't take your on the fly and made up definitions. What you have explained is made up after 1930. You have also not explained whether people who made other translations (including ibn kathir) were ignorant fools.
I am not assuming anything. It is a verified fact that universe is expanding. You are now resorting to ridiculous arguments like wall around universe!! what desperation!!! Offcourse big crunch theory is permanently discredited in light of observations made by hubble. There is no reason why it should not be, until some other observations are made (not BS assumptions, but actual observations) in the contrary. So, quran is definitely wrong here... You seem to be confused between facts and theories. Galaxies moving away from each other and accelerating is a fact. You can't deny that. Based on this fact, big crunch (which states gravity is pulling everything towards each other) is out... Big Freeze may not be true, but Big Crunch is definitely wrong. I can't dumb it down any further...
Regarding the "theory" you said, that is called theory of gravitation..lol... heavy and light is meaningless without gravity. If particle becoves heavy, it doesn't mean it has gained mass (!!) it means gravity has become higher. Big freeze depends on mass, not weight....

First of all jins and angel are two different creatures. Secondly its divine light called noor which is not bound by physical laws and may consist of different electromagnetic energy frequencies which are invisible to us or cannot detect by any instrument. They also have ability to appear in many forms including humans to perform their tasks even though they don't have physical bodies. Angel unlike jins dont have free will

but well shoroo yea sab batein..It would not make any sense to you or those who consider it fairy tale

Fairy tale? no... it is rambling of pseudo-scientists to make their religion look more credible, pathetic...

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Fairy tale? no... it is rambling of pseudo-scientists to make their religion look more credible, pathetic...

Hey Mr genius I dont know what you are talking about and why getting frustrated lol

I was just giving answer of his questions which he asked from me by quoting my post. I am content with my beliefs and dont feel the need to get your certificate of authenticity or credibility.

 

[Falcon29]

Ok, the problem with scientific community is that we are always skeptic before accepting anything. And the idea is not accepting what we already have, it's about interpreting obtained experimental data and making a model out of it. If you have superior logical model to interpret the data better, the scientific community will be more than happy to listen to you.

As far the data suggests, Universe came into existence from a point source, though it may sound outrageous but when you look at super massive blackholes, it has the mass of thousands of stars confined to a point.

when you talk about God, he must have a origin and an end. So can you accept the idea of mortal God? Now, you're asking me to believe something which i can't prove it doesn't exists. The same can go other way too, how i can believe in something which i can't prove the existence of. If we don't know the answer, we work pretty hard to find it out, and have been successful in answering many queries, 'therefore God' is never the answer to settle for us.

God is immortal.

Even if God exists, it means he waited billions of years for Humans to be created. You can argue that the billions of years would in fact be minutes to god.

But the fossils that scientists have found, not only of Dinosaurs but Ice Age animals, Neanderthals.

And even if god exists, probability wise, an Atheist has the same probability of getting it right as a religious person.

Well he isn't bound by time, years to us are nothing to him from our understanding of time.

Science will never prove the existence of a creator but perhaps that's how the creator intended it. Faith by its very nature is based on trust without evidence. So to ask science to prove a purpose or an intelligent hand in the creation of the universe is a paradox.

As an aside, it is a sad fact that science gets a very unfair rap. There is a view that science is over-bearing and obstinate but in truth science is anything but inflexible. Science welcomes questions - any scientific thought that is not tested / questioned would be self-defeating as it would be prone to failure in real world application. This is why the scientific community is the most self-critical of all. The same cannot be said of our faith or political communities.

Religion and science don't have to be exclusive of each other - but to ask one to verify the other is not wise.

This is a good point.

Ok, example from hinduism - Nasadiya Sukta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There is pagan garbage, non-pagan (actual) garbage and there is science. The meaning is "the expander", so sorry again, can't take your on the fly and made up definitions. What you have explained is made up after 1930. You have also not explained whether people who made other translations (including ibn kathir) were ignorant fools.
I am not assuming anything. It is a verified fact that universe is expanding. You are now resorting to ridiculous arguments like wall around universe!! what desperation!!! Offcourse big crunch theory is permanently discredited in light of observations made by hubble. There is no reason why it should not be, until some other observations are made (not BS assumptions, but actual observations) in the contrary. So, quran is definitely wrong here... You seem to be confused between facts and theories. Galaxies moving away from each other and accelerating is a fact. You can't deny that. Based on this fact, big crunch (which states gravity is pulling everything towards each other) is out... Big Freeze may not be true, but Big Crunch is definitely wrong. I can't dumb it down any further...
Regarding the "theory" you said, that is called theory of gravitation..lol... heavy and light is meaningless without gravity. If particle becoves heavy, it doesn't mean it has gained mass (!!) it means gravity has become higher. Big freeze depends on mass, not weight....

Wrong, it's used in a continuous tense.

And I never denied that the Universe is expanding, that still does not mean it will never contract.

If God is a part of the universe, or any universe or dimensions for that matter, it must have an beginning and an end. Matter and energy aren't immortal, maybe their time is prolonged, but finite.

Well, according to Abrahamic religion he isn't in our Universe, and also, Muslim scholars have some explanations regarding evolution, we don't deny it and neither do we believe life started 5,000 years ago. Some Arabs actually studied evolution or the concept of natural selection.

 

[Thirdfront]

Hey Mr genius I dont know what you are talking about and why getting frustrated lol

I was just giving answer of his questions which he asked from me by quoting my post. I am content with my beliefs and dont feel the need to get your certificate of authenticity or credibility.

That is good, you won't get any even if you ask...

Wrong, it's used in a continuous tense.

Lol... write your own grammar.... Till some new evidence emerges, universe will never contract. It reminds me of a story. A retired school teacher is not given his pension. When he enquires, the officer tells him that his status has been entered as dead in their register, so he has to prove he is alive. After 10 years of court battle, finally they agree a doctor's certificate is sufficient. He submits the certificate and gets pension only for that year and not previous 9 years, reason? he did not prove that he was alive during previous 9 years.

 

[Skull and Bones]

wrong

In quantum world, energy is itself in an unstable state. As for the fate of the universe if concerned, it will continue to expand forever and at one stage, the temperature will be absolute zero, so where does the energy decayed into?

In quantum world, energy can be converted into pair of particles and anti-particles.

 

[Skull and Bones]

What is time and when it actually began? what was there before time? Is time finite or infinite?

Again there was never a instance when God did not exist. By definition God is a timeless being who never had beginning because he existed outside of eternity or existed outside of space & time even before big bang or existence of this universe or its dimensions. God created the universe. Time is part of the universe. Therefore the words created by humans to describe time such as 'beginning' and 'end' do not apply to God.

If you you are a blind man who was blind by birth then you will never know or understand what sight is. You can imagine and try to wrap your mind around an idea but will never fully understand what sight and colors are. We as humans will never fully understand this concept of God because of his unique an eternal attributes

The origin and fate of time depends on the frame of reference. In multiverse approach, time in infinite and in local universe approach, time in finite and has a origin.

And as you've gone philosophical than scientific, do tell me, do an infant is born with the concept of God? Do the animal kingdom have the concept of God, as they should have if they have consciousness.

And you cannot equate the perceivable senses to faith, a person can have faith about surviving a jump from a hundred storeyed building, but the fate depends on the realm of physical science, not faith. You're giving attribute to an entity which cannot be perceived, rather than debating on the logical junctures of can universe afford to have a God?

And even if his not from this universe, he'd belong to any such universe, and that universe must have an origin and fate. And i've seen few believers in this same thread stating religion doesn't support multiverse theory, so you're statement is self contradictory in a sense.

 

[MilSpec]

From the scientific viewpoint, if there is no empirical evidence, then the answer is: "I don't know".

Which is the most logical answer.

I wish my corporate leadership understood the essence of this!!

 

[Luftwaffe]

@Hazzy997

Interesting read...

God Created the Universe with the Purpose to Serve Humankind: God Created ... - Fateh Ullah Khan - Google Books

 

[Skull and Bones]

God is immortal.

Well, according to Abrahamic religion he isn't in our Universe, and also, Muslim scholars have some explanations regarding evolution, we don't deny it and neither do we believe life started 5,000 years ago. Some Arabs actually studied evolution or the concept of natural selection.

Neither is matter or energy is immortal.

Doesn't matter if he's from this universe or from other, the origin and fate of all of them will be similar. And if he's from some universe, then you've a problem here. The phase of this universe and any parallel universe being different, he cannot interact with any matter or energy in this universe.

God wouldn't break his own rule, don't you think so? Or that'd make him a hypocrite.

 

[oFFbEAT]

The question is, who created god.....or where did he come from?
Then the question is, who created the creator of god?
Then the question is , who created the creator of creator of god?....and so on.....this universe is crazy...

 

[Skull and Bones]

@Hazzy997

Interesting read...

God Created the Universe with the Purpose to Serve Humankind: God Created ... - Fateh Ullah Khan - Google Books

So an ape is without consciousness, the very first line is 'off the charts'.

 

[Skull and Bones]

The question is, who created god.....or where did he come from?
Then the question is, who created the creator of god?
Then the question is , who created the creator of creator of god?....and so on.....this universe is crazy...

Exactly, as they mentioned, the universe cannot afford to have a God.

 

[Falcon29]

That is good, you won't get any even if you ask...


Lol... write your own grammar.... Till some new evidence emerges, universe will never contract. It reminds me of a story. A retired school teacher is not given his pension. When he enquires, the officer tells him that his status has been entered as dead in their register, so he has to prove he is alive. After 10 years of court battle, finally they agree a doctor's certificate is sufficient. He submits the certificate and gets pension only for that year and not previous 9 years, reason? he did not prove that he was alive during previous 9 years.

You're a cuckoo, there is no evidence that says the Universe would never end, there are many theories that say the Universe could eventually compress. You'd still be in denial either way.

The world itself is used in a continuous tense, it is there in Arabic.

 

[Nomad16]

In quantum world, e


energy is itself in an unstable state. As for the fate of the universe if concerned, it will continue to expand forever and at one stage, the temperature will be absolute zero, so where does the energy decayed into?

In quantum world, energy can be converted into pair of particles and anti-particles.

energy can not be destroyed energy can not be created , in can only transform lol

energy is itself in an unstable state

it's depend on what do you call as energy ! you just useing one form of energy when it's fully change to something else you just say the energy is ends but actually it's fully transformed

 

[Falcon29]

@Hazzy997

Interesting read...

God Created the Universe with the Purpose to Serve Humankind: God Created ... - Fateh Ullah Khan - Google Books

Great read.

The question is, who created god.....or where did he come from?
Then the question is, who created the creator of god?
Then the question is , who created the creator of creator of god?....and so on.....this universe is crazy...

God just is, even if he tried explaining it to us we can't comprehend it did to our human nature. We cannot understand how something came out of nothing or that something just always was.