Why do people believe the Universe has no purpose/cause?

[Falcon29]

Question about universe purpose makes sense only if universe was created by some intelligent creature (God, aliens etc).

So before asking this question u must prove first that it was created by someone with intelligence.

Why do say that it would only make sense that way?

Nope sorry, give me a link of any pre-1930 source... one of the first tafsir has it as "Verily, We are able to extend the vastness of space thereof. And We have spread out the earth: how excellent a spreader are We!" (Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Allah swears by His Creation that the Person Who purifies Himself will be Successful It is not unusual for meaning to change as science discovers the reality....

Guy, if we go by this other theory, that the Universe will expand forever, we can't conclude that, what if there is a wall around our Universe which will contain its expansion? We don't know this yet, we barely have discovered our Universe. These theories are based off the law of physics and wouldn't that mean something was wrong about the Big Bang theory?

 

[Thirdfront]

@Thirdfront

You say that all other religions had the same exact concepts, please show us this. Which religions exactly and cite their concepts of the Universe here.

Will do.. but it got nothing to with the present discussion. And again, it is the modern twisted interpretation that will go back and forth and will be more about language than science. I don't think anybody had tiniest idea of expanding universe till Hubble discovered it.......

Why do say that it would only make sense that way?



Guy, if we go by this other theory, that the Universe will expand forever, we can't conclude that, what if there is a wall around our Universe which will contain its expansion? We don't know this yet, we barely have discovered our Universe. These theories are based off the law of physics and wouldn't that mean something was wrong about the Big Bang theory?

Sigh.... you can't assume things to fit your view. Currently, as per observations, universe will expand forever. If somebody observes and proves the existence of the wall, it will change. Not till then...

 

[Falcon29]

Will do.. but it got nothing to with the present discussion. And again, it is the modern twisted interpretation that will go back and forth and will be more about language than science. I don't think anybody had tiniest idea of expanding universe till Hubble discovered it.......

Yes it does, we can discuss religion in this, you made a claim that the concept in the Quran is the same thing as all previous religions. Show this to us. There is pagan garbage then there are actual religions. You don't think so based on what? Your denial? Go search the word for yourself, i've supported the verse with the meaning of the word and what tense it was used in.

Sigh.... you can't assume things to fit your view. Currently, as per observations, universe will expand forever. If somebody observes and proves the existence of the wall, it will change. Not till then..

You assume things to fit your view, nobody has absolutely discredited the idea of the Universe contracting. Because we do not know if there is a wall around our Universe that will contain it's expansion. We say the Universe is open based on the law of physics due to there not being enough matter. However, you permanently are trying to discredit it, as of this day and age with what we know, yes, the Universe is expanding. These are still theories since we can never stop investigating, therefore nothing is absolutely true as of yet.

@Thirdfront

Have you ever heard about the theory that a shift in a field could cause particles to get billions times heavier and cause our Universe to collapse which will compress us into a small ball?

 

[Skull and Bones]

So you say we just have to accept what we have now, which is the Universe did have a beginning and began from nothing. So why can't you also believe God just was/is?

Ok, the problem with scientific community is that we are always skeptic before accepting anything. And the idea is not accepting what we already have, it's about interpreting obtained experimental data and making a model out of it. If you have superior logical model to interpret the data better, the scientific community will be more than happy to listen to you.

As far the data suggests, Universe came into existence from a point source, though it may sound outrageous but when you look at super massive blackholes, it has the mass of thousands of stars confined to a point.

when you talk about God, he must have a origin and an end. So can you accept the idea of mortal God? Now, you're asking me to believe something which i can't prove it doesn't exists. The same can go other way too, how i can believe in something which i can't prove the existence of. If we don't know the answer, we work pretty hard to find it out, and have been successful in answering many queries, 'therefore God' is never the answer to settle for us.

 

[Chronos]

Ok, the problem with scientific community is that we are always skeptic before accepting anything. And the idea is not accepting what we already have, it's about interpreting obtained experimental data and making a model out of it. If you have superior logical model to interpret the data better, the scientific community will be more than happy to listen to you.

As far the data suggests, Universe came into existence from a point source, though it may sound outrageous but when you look at super massive blackholes, it has the mass of thousands of stars confined to a point.

when you talk about God, he must have a origin and an end. So can you accept the idea of mortal God? Now, you're asking me to believe something which i can't prove it doesn't exists. The same can go other way too, how i can believe in something which i can't prove the existence of. If we don't know the answer, we work pretty hard to find it out, and have been successful in answering many queries, 'therefore God' is never the answer to settle for us.

Even if God exists, it means he waited billions of years for Humans to be created. You can argue that the billions of years would in fact be minutes to god.

But the fossils that scientists have found, not only of Dinosaurs but Ice Age animals, Neanderthals.

And even if god exists, probability wise, an Atheist has the same probability of getting it right as a religious person.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Even if God exists, it means he waited billions of years for Humans to be created. You can argue that the billions of years would in fact be minutes to god.

But the fossils that scientists have found, not only of Dinosaurs but Ice Age animals, Neanderthals.

And even if god exists, probability wise, an Atheist has the same probability of getting it right as a religious person.

If you believe in creationism, then why it took millions of years for humans to evolve in it's present form. If any superior design wanted it in this form, he would have just created it in the first place.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

I dont think you will ever get this answer that where universe came from i.e origin of life, universe and planet. There will be always something unknown. Science or scientists has its limitations. Your brain, hearing, eyes sights, senses everything is limited. Science is study of matter, physical things something which you can feel, experience with your senses so science will never able to prove God, life hereafter, angels, hoors, jins, hell, heaven etc because they are all super natural concepts and need beliefs/blind beliefs. There were many things which were existed even before science discovered them for example laws of nature. Were these laws existed before science discover them ? yea they were existed even though they were unknown to us and it can apply to many things which science has not discovered yet but they may exist

 

[Skull and Bones]

I dont think you will ever get this answer that where universe came from i.e origin of life, universe and planet. There will be always something unknown. Science or scientists has its limitations. Your brain, hearing, eyes sights, senses everything is limited. Science is study of matter, physical things something which you can feel, experience with your senses so science will never able to prove God, life hereafter, angels, hoors, jins, hell, heaven etc because they are all super natural concepts and need beliefs/blind beliefs. There were many things which were existed even before science discovered them for example laws of nature. Were these laws existed before science discover them ? yea they were existed even though they were unknown to us and it can apply to many things which science has not discovered yet but they may exist

So what are Gods, Jins are made of?

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

So what are Gods, Jins are made of?

They are not physical being ..angels are made of light but as far God we know his attributes like he is eternal, all knowing, singular, unique/ incomparable, self-sufficient, omnipotent etc. If you read these attributes then it would become impossible to define something who keep such attributes or properties. It would be like me asking you to count till infinity

 

[Skull and Bones]

They are not physical being ..angels are made of light but as far God we know his attributes like he is eternal, all knowing, singular, unique/ incomparable, self-sufficient, omnipotent etc. If you read these attributes then it would become impossible to define something who keep such attributes or properties. It would be like me asking you to count till infinity

Light means energy, so of the ginn is present, there has to be a potential gradient present, which could be easily picked up by scientific equipment.

 

[EasyNow]

Science will never prove the existence of a creator but perhaps that's how the creator intended it. Faith by its very nature is based on trust without evidence. So to ask science to prove a purpose or an intelligent hand in the creation of the universe is a paradox.

As an aside, it is a sad fact that science gets a very unfair rap. There is a view that science is over-bearing and obstinate but in truth science is anything but inflexible. Science welcomes questions - any scientific thought that is not tested / questioned would be self-defeating as it would be prone to failure in real world application. This is why the scientific community is the most self-critical of all. The same cannot be said of our faith or political communities.

Religion and science don't have to be exclusive of each other - but to ask one to verify the other is not wise.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Light means energy, so of the ginn is present, there has to be a potential gradient present, which could be easily picked up by scientific equipment.

First of all jins and angel are two different creatures. Secondly its divine light called noor which is not bound by physical laws and may consist of different electromagnetic energy frequencies which are invisible to us or cannot detect by any instrument. They also have ability to appear in many forms including humans to perform their tasks even though they don't have physical bodies. Angel unlike jins dont have free will

but well shoroo yea sab batein..It would not make any sense to you or those who consider it fairy tale

 

[Skull and Bones]

First of all jins and angel are two different creatures. Secondly its divine light called noor which is not bound by physical laws and may consist of different electromagnetic energy frequencies which are invisible to us or cannot detect by any instrument. They also have ability to appear in many forms including humans to perform their tasks even though they don't have physical bodies. Angel unlike jins dont have free will

but well shoroo yea sab batein..It would not make any sense to you or those who consider it fairy tale

If God is a part of the universe, or any universe or dimensions for that matter, it must have an beginning and an end. Matter and energy aren't immortal, maybe their time is prolonged, but finite.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

If God is a part of the universe, or any universe or dimensions for that matter, it must have an beginning and an end. Matter and energy aren't immortal, maybe their time is prolonged, but finite.

What is time and when it actually began? what was there before time? Is time finite or infinite?

Again there was never a instance when God did not exist. By definition God is a timeless being who never had beginning because he existed outside of eternity or existed outside of space & time even before big bang or existence of this universe or its dimensions. God created the universe. Time is part of the universe. Therefore the words created by humans to describe time such as 'beginning' and 'end' do not apply to God.

If you you are a blind man who was blind by birth then you will never know or understand what sight is. You can imagine and try to wrap your mind around an idea but will never fully understand what sight and colors are. We as humans will never fully understand this concept of God because of his unique an eternal attributes

 

[Nomad16]

energy aren't immortal

wrong