Why do people believe the Universe has no purpose/cause?
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Falcon29
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@Indischer @Thirdfront
So when did humans figure out the Universe would contract and it would be our end?
So when did humans figure out the Universe would contract and it would be our end?
Falcon29
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i am trolling
???
Thirdfront
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It needs explanation, no doubt. We just don't know what the explanation is....
We haven't...it is one of the possibilities...
Falcon29
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So can't you say if it has an explanation that could be perceived as the cause?
So two most plausible theories today are that the Universe is either like a yo-yo or it's expanding. So the Big Crunch theory is supported, but, when has his theory came about?
Also, this is interesting as well....
Belief in God is part of human nature - Oxford study - Telegraph
Thirdfront
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Read from your quote - "One of the studies, from Oxford, concluded that children below the age of five found it easier to believe in some “superhuman” properties than to understand human limitations"
Do you need researchers to tell you this??
Currently, big crunch theory is not supported... It is "cold death" theory which is supported by observation (everything is moving away from each other), this was Hubble's observation...
Falcon29
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That's about human nature though, being a child doesn't mean you will cite God just because you're an child. You must have missed this part:
'Children were asked whether their mother would know the contents of a closed box. Three-year-olds believed that their mother and God would always know the contents, but by the age of four, children start to understand that their mothers were not omniscient.
Separate research from China suggested that people across different cultures instinctively believed that some part of their mind, soul or spirit lived on after death.'
........
It doesn't matter if it currently isn't supported, of course anything religion predicts we start to lose scientific evidence for it. The Quran states everything would end in a 'big crunch' fashion. What do you know, conveniently it's not supported anymore. The cold death theory is based on dark energy, right now we still don't know which is exactly true.
Thirdfront
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Yeah, and they would say Santa is real. If you read fully, it also says urban population has less faith than rural, makes sense? Big crunch is in vedas.It says everything is cyclic, including the universe, much before quran. Anyways, do you quote where it says as such? Sometimes quaran says exactly what current scientific theory says, if you know what I mean... In anyways, what religious texts says has no meaning as they tend to be not specific....
Skull and Bones
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So the question should be, the purpose of your existence, not that of the Universe. Universe popped into existence 14 billion years before us. We are just an intelligent organism settled in a tiny spec of dust.
Skull and Bones
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Why it exists, it's a matter of further study, maybe because of some sort of astronomical potential gradient sort of thing, i'm speculating here. But matter do pops into and out of existence, what's intriguing you is the scale of it. Neither the universe is eternally stable. I have mentioned before, the net mass-energy equivalence of the universe is zero.
And yes, it poses more question than it answers, and people are working towards it all their life, just answer these questions.
Nomad16
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i just wanna write something so i could get alert and whats better than middle finger lol
But how will you prove that it isn't?
Falcon29
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Children are brought up to believe Santa, but not all of them are brought up in religious households. Yet 3 year olds beleive in a specific supernatural deity naturally. That's amazing.
..........
And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)
The Universe will also shrink: "The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it. (The Noble Quran, 21:104)"
Because they don't exist in our reality, God is something that has no beginning or end and is not bound by the laws of our Universe. He is not part of this.
So you say we just have to accept what we have now, which is the Universe did have a beginning and began from nothing. So why can't you also believe God just was/is?
Thirdfront
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So, it doesn't exactly say what you say it says.
I have made a list of different translations and when they were made in bracket. Edwin Hubble discovered that universe is expanding in 1920-30. See the translations and let me see if you can make any interesting observation:
Sahih International (1997)
And the heaven We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
Muhsin Khan (1999)
With power did We construct the heaven. Verily, We are Able to extend the vastness of space thereof.
Pickthall (before 1930)
We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
Yusuf Ali (1934)
With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
Shakir (1999)
And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.
Dr. Ghali (2008)
And the heaven (is also a sign). We have built it with (Our) Hands (i.e., Capability) and surely We are indeed extending (it) wide.
That is what I was saying. Religious texts tend to follow current scientific observation. Not the other way around. Hence no "expanding universe" pre 1930. You are most welcome to give a source of pre-1930 translation that says otherwise....
Falcon29
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@Thirdfront
This is your explanation, anybody who knows Arabic, even Persians can confirm this to you:
As to the Universe Expanding, the Arabic Word used by Allah Almighty is MOUSI'OONA (موسعون expanding) in Noble Verse 51:47, which is a verb of the noun WAASI'A (واسع vast). Now some might say that MOUSI'OONA only means "WE MADE IT VAST", and is not a contineous process. I respond to them by saying that the word would then have to be AWSA'NA (أوسعنا expanded or made bigger), and not the continueous action and verb MOUSI'OONA (موسعون expanding). MOUSI'OONA is clearly a verb that refers to a continuing expansion, or a happening and ongoing expansion.
................
I agree with this explanation, I know Arabic, if it was we had made it vast it would be this way : اوسعناها
@Arabian Legend @Islam shall be the winner @haman10
As for the second verse I showed you, why would people a thousand plus years ago suspect the Universe would 'fold up', basically meaning contract?
...........
@Thirdfront
Pre-1930's translations....:
1- Tafsir muqatel ibn solaiman (year AD 767)
means: we are able to expand it as we want.
تفسير مقاتل بن سليمان/ مقاتل بن سليمان (ت 150 هـ
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } [آية: 47] يعني نحن قادرون على أن نوسعها كما نريد
2- Tafsir Bahr alolum , (year 985)
means: we are able to expand it as we will.
(فسير بحر العلوم/ السمرقندي
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } يعني نحن قادرون على أن نوسعها كما نريد
3- Tafsir alfayruz abadi (year 1414)
means : we we are expanding it as we will.
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } لها ما نشاء
تفسير القرآن/ الفيروز آبادي (ت817
4- Tafsir Alnukat waloyon (year 1058)
means : we are able to make the heaven expanding more that it is already expanded.
تفسير النكت والعيون/ الماوردي (ت 450 ه)
الثاني: لموسعون السماء، قاله ابن زيد.
الثالث: لقادرون على الاتساع بأكثر من اتساع السماء.
5 - Tafsir Alqasemy : (year 1913 )
means: we are able to expand it, more than it is already expanded.
تفسير محاسن التأويل / محمد جمال الدين القاسمي (ت 1332هـ
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } أي: لقادرون على الإيساع، كما أوسعنا بناءها
6- Tafsir Altabarani (year 970)
means :we expand the heaven in every direction.
تفسير التفسير الكبير / للإمام الطبراني (ت 360 ـ)
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ }؛ في السَّماء على الأرضِ في كلِّ جهاتٍ
Etc ,etc,etc .......................
@Thirdfront
If I personally would literally translate it for you it would like this:
And we have the ability/are able/can spread/space/stretch/make bigger it as we wish/will.
This is your explanation, anybody who knows Arabic, even Persians can confirm this to you:
As to the Universe Expanding, the Arabic Word used by Allah Almighty is MOUSI'OONA (موسعون expanding) in Noble Verse 51:47, which is a verb of the noun WAASI'A (واسع vast). Now some might say that MOUSI'OONA only means "WE MADE IT VAST", and is not a contineous process. I respond to them by saying that the word would then have to be AWSA'NA (أوسعنا expanded or made bigger), and not the continueous action and verb MOUSI'OONA (موسعون expanding). MOUSI'OONA is clearly a verb that refers to a continuing expansion, or a happening and ongoing expansion.
................
I agree with this explanation, I know Arabic, if it was we had made it vast it would be this way : اوسعناها
@Arabian Legend @Islam shall be the winner @haman10
As for the second verse I showed you, why would people a thousand plus years ago suspect the Universe would 'fold up', basically meaning contract?
...........
@Thirdfront
Pre-1930's translations....:
1- Tafsir muqatel ibn solaiman (year AD 767)
means: we are able to expand it as we want.
تفسير مقاتل بن سليمان/ مقاتل بن سليمان (ت 150 هـ
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } [آية: 47] يعني نحن قادرون على أن نوسعها كما نريد
2- Tafsir Bahr alolum , (year 985)
means: we are able to expand it as we will.
(فسير بحر العلوم/ السمرقندي
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } يعني نحن قادرون على أن نوسعها كما نريد
3- Tafsir alfayruz abadi (year 1414)
means : we we are expanding it as we will.
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } لها ما نشاء
تفسير القرآن/ الفيروز آبادي (ت817
4- Tafsir Alnukat waloyon (year 1058)
means : we are able to make the heaven expanding more that it is already expanded.
تفسير النكت والعيون/ الماوردي (ت 450 ه)
الثاني: لموسعون السماء، قاله ابن زيد.
الثالث: لقادرون على الاتساع بأكثر من اتساع السماء.
5 - Tafsir Alqasemy : (year 1913 )
means: we are able to expand it, more than it is already expanded.
تفسير محاسن التأويل / محمد جمال الدين القاسمي (ت 1332هـ
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ } أي: لقادرون على الإيساع، كما أوسعنا بناءها
6- Tafsir Altabarani (year 970)
means :we expand the heaven in every direction.
تفسير التفسير الكبير / للإمام الطبراني (ت 360 ـ)
{ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ }؛ في السَّماء على الأرضِ في كلِّ جهاتٍ
Etc ,etc,etc .......................
@Thirdfront
If I personally would literally translate it for you it would like this:
And we have the ability/are able/can spread/space/stretch/make bigger it as we wish/will.
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