Who gets to be Caliph?

[LeGenD]

Caliph is not a King..He is a servant of nation.
The other word for caliph is "Ameer" and shariah has strict check and balance for an Ameer.....
Abu Bakar Siddique (RA) pleaded everybody else to accept the responsibility away from him,but nobody came forward.

Correct. However, issues can occur even in Caliphate system. People do conspire against even good leaders and we have examples.

The western style "Democracy" is not the final word and by no means a perfect government model...

It works for some countries. Not all. However, US democratic model is very good.

For a start Barrack Obabma is just a muppet in the hands of the senate,and the senate may be elected by people,it doesn't mean they always act as the people want them to..Same for democracy anywhere.

This is not the case. Obama pulled off Libyan war effort unilaterally.

US President is the most powerful man in the world.

 

[ali786]

Twelver shias believe that there are 12 Mahdis and the prophet named them in his last "will". The last Mahdi has disappeared and in "occultation" and will appear again to save the world from injustice.

lol i heard they believe he is hiding in a mountain or tunnel or something waiting for the right time to emerge.

 

[King Solomon]

lol i heard they believe he is hiding in a mountain or tunnel or something waiting for the right time to emerge.

Okay, lets not make fun of them and go against this verse:

O you who have believed, avoid much [negative] assumption. Indeed, some assumption is sin. And do not spy or backbite each other. Would one of you like to eat the flesh of his brother when dead? You would detest it. (49:12)

 

[ali786]

Okay, lets not make fun of them and go against this verse:

ok fair enough, but Ithna’ ‘Ashari (Shi’ah) claim that he entered a tunnel and is awaiting the order to emerge or something. I wasnt just making it up.

 

[King Solomon]

ok fair enough, but Ithna’ ‘Ashari (Shi’ah) claim that he entered a tunnel and is awaiting the order to emerge or something. I wasnt just making it up.

It seems odd to me too, it is in no way supported by the Quran. But then again, there is no compulsion in religion.. Let them believe whatever they want to.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

It seems odd to me too, it is in no way supported by the Quran. But then again, there is no compulsion in religion.. Let them believe whatever they want to.

And you claimed many times that you don't believe in all Hadiths which is the oddest thing ever, since you can't learn prayer from Quran because it doesn't exist there. So, stop your odd "oddity" here, everyone is free to believe of whatever he/she wants. I abstained from replying since it's a religious debate but this was getting ridiculous and I had to reply.

 

[Don Jaguar]

ok fair enough, but Ithna’ ‘Ashari (Shi’ah) claim that he entered a tunnel and is awaiting the order to emerge or something. I wasnt just making it up.

Who claimed that?

Ever heard about Jazira-e-Khizra?

Seems like you have very less knowledge about it.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

as I see and it appears we finally come eye to eye in one issue , except that he won't come he is among us right now . God has never left the people without a chosen man . why should he do now?

if ur claim is right that chosen person should come in front and let the world know he is here and he is the chosen one ( but we hear from others there is a chosen one but not from his mouth ). All the Prophets peace be upon them they came farward and let the world know about themselves and what they present

Twelver shias believe that there are 12 Mahdis and the prophet named them in his last "will". The last Mahdi has disappeared and in "occultation" and will appear again to save the world from injustice.

Assalam alaikum

i earlier thought u r a shia but that is ok, shia believe in 12 imams and the last one as a mehdi but shia has many sects inside them ( ismaelies , nusairies, zaidi , etc)

It seems odd to me too, it is in no way supported by the Quran. But then again, there is no compulsion in religion.. Let them believe whatever they want to.

Agree with u on the bolded part but if their believe means when their so called mehdi comes out he wil go to madinah and will
bring abu bakr and umer r-a to live and punish them and also will punish umm almomeneen Aisha r-a. then it does matter to us

TARIQ

 

[King Solomon]

if ur claim is right that chosen person should come in front and let the world know he is here and he is the chosen one ( but we hear from others there is a chosen one but not from his mouth ). All the Prophets peace be upon them they came farward and let the world know about themselves and what they present



Assalam alaikum

i earlier thought u r a shia but that is ok, shia believe in 12 imams and the last one as a mehdi but shia has many sects inside them ( ismaelies , nusairies, zaidi , etc)

Agree with u on the bolded part but if their believe means when their so called mehdi comes out he wil go to madinah and will
bring abu bakr and umer r-a to live and punish them and also will punish umm almomeneen Aisha r-a. then it does matter to us

TARIQ

I only uphold and try to follow God's words (Quran). I do not identify myself as a member of any sect.

Agree with u on the bolded part but if their believe means when their so called mehdi comes out he wil go to madinah and will
bring abu bakr and umer r-a to live and punish them and also will punish umm almomeneen Aisha r-a. then it does matter to us

I am not aware of such beliefs exhibited by anyone. But as long as they don't harm you or oppress you in any way, there is no mandate by Quran to "have problem" with them.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

I only uphold and try to follow God's words (Quran). I do not identify myself as a member of any sect.



I am not aware of such beliefs exhibited by anyone. But as long as they don't harm you or oppress you in any way, there is no mandate by Quran to "have problem" with them.

IF some1 will try to dig ur father's grave u will not allow him to do that ( eventhough he is not harming u ) the companions of the Prophet r symbols of islam if we let somebody to harm their dead bodies this is insult to islam ( which we will never accept ) and the wife of our Prophet is our mother according to quran and if we respond and if they have the power they will oppress us ( so the 2 conditions that u put harming and oppressing will accur)

if u r not aware of such believes that doesnot mean it never exists.

TARIQ

 

[King Solomon]

IF some1 will try to dig ur father's grave u will not allow him to do that ( eventhough he is not harming u ) the companions of the Prophet r symbols of islam if we let somebody to harm their dead bodies this is insult to islam ( which we will never accept ) and the wife of our Prophet is our mother according to quran and if we respond and if they have the power they will oppress us ( so the 2 conditions that u put harming and oppressing will accur)
TARIQ

If they deny the Quran, only they will be responsible for their deeds. The quran did not tell you to declare them kuffars or wage wars on them just because they denied some verse of Quran.

 

[TARIQ BN ZIYAAD]

If they deny the Quran, only they will be responsible for their deeds. The quran did not tell you to declare them kuffars or wage wars on them just because they denied some verse of Quran.

lol , where did i declare them kuffar?

but if somebody believe ( or his idealogy ) is to take revenge from ur ancestors and umm almomeneen will u let them do it or u will fight

just remember thru out the whole history of islam muslims ( sunnies ruled most part of the islamic world and these ppl existed ( as long as they didnot cross the line )

but in the 3rd hijri century they invaded ( qaramtah ) makka killed thousands of pilgrims took the black stone for about 20 plus years. and if they have they power they will do it again
besides one more point their mehdi will not come until there is death and chaos in makkah

As long as u r away from makkah who cares if there is killing and choas, right?

TARIQ

 

[King Solomon]

lol , where did i declare them kuffar?

but if somebody believe ( or his idealogy ) is to take revenge from ur ancestors and umm almomeneen will u let them do it or u will fight

just remember thru out the whole history of islam muslims ( sunnies ruled most part of the islamic world and these ppl existed ( as long as they didnot cross the line )

but in the 3rd hijri century they invaded ( qaramtah ) makka killed thousands of pilgrims took the black stone for about 20 plus years. and if they have they power they will do it again
besides one more point their mehdi will not come until there is death and chaos in makkah

As long as u r away from makkah who cares if there is killing and choas, right?

TARIQ

I do not really get what you mean. You previously said that you "have problem" with them. Just answer this simple question: Why would you "have problem" with them if they do not harm you in any way? Do you "have problem" with Hindus in pakistan who worship idols?

Seriously, get rid off this intolerant attitude. The Quran only allows you to fight back if they physically harm you and strictly forbids any form of transgression. As I see it, whatever beliefs they may have, they are not harming you physically, so it is preposterous that you "have problem" with them.

 

[IbnAlwaled]

I only uphold and try to follow God's words (Quran). I do not identify myself as a member of any sect.



I am not aware of such beliefs exhibited by anyone. But as long as they don't harm you or oppress you in any way, there is no mandate by Quran to "have problem" with them.

There is a name for that sect, they are called Qur'anis, they don't pray five times a day and they don't do al ot of stuff Sunnis and Shias do since they entirely reject hadiths.

 

[King Solomon]

There is a name for that sect, they are called Qur'anis, they don't pray five times a day and they don't do al ot of stuff Sunnis and Shias do since they entirely reject hadiths.

No, I assure you I'm not so-called "Qurani's", sunni, shia, or any other sect for that matter.