Who gets to be Caliph?

[IbnAlwaled]

Based on documented accounts, the leader you are indicating is Ali. According to many accounts, he was ordered to be the Caliph after our prophet mohammed. Maybe the way abu bakr became the caliph was unjust but why fall back because of it? It has been friggin 1400 years since then and we should just move on instead of thinking about who was the rightful caliph 1400 years ago.

It would have been great if the only difference between sunnis and shias was whom should have became ruler after the prophet. In fact this the only difference between zydi shias and sunnis, that's why zydis take from sunni imams and vice versa.

 

[King Solomon]

I'm sorry time is running short for me and I gotta go but I try to get my point across to you :


I'm not talking only about 1400 years ago what about now ? as I said there has to be a chosen man in the present time as it's happened always . in the point of my view, judgement day is not possible while there is no chosen man among of people to guide them, if you are accepting my point so it had to happened to imam Ali too , I mean if there had to sb after prophet there had to be sb after him too he had to say who is the next caliph and next caliph had to tell us who is the next one as our prophet (pbuh) did , 'cause they are chosen man.

Al-raad 7 :






Fatir 24 :

Look at Islamic countries which one is really Islamic ? which version of Islam is the real one? I think if they've let Islam continue its correct path we wouldn't have 72 sects in present era , we had to learn Islam from its real source , but they didn't let us to do so.

Yeah, that is only possible if we concentrate on the root (ie. the Koran). Every sect, from Shia, sunni, brelvi etc has common ground in Quran but they divide themselves squandering over the hadiths.

 

[explorer9]

Zaydi's are considered the 5th school jurisprudence by Ahlul Sunaah scholars bcoz the doctrine of Imamat in Zaydi's is the
same as Sunnis unlike Ithna Ashari and ismali Shiias.

 

[raptor22]

It would have been great if the only difference between sunnis and shias was whom should have became ruler after the prophet. In fact this the only difference between zydi shias and sunnis, that's why zydis take from sunni imams and vice versa.

could you please tell me who are the sunni imams ? maybe you mean caliphs like Abobakr, Omar , Osman and so on ? as far as I know zydi shies believe in Imams like shies Athnā‘ashariyyah except in one Imam .

Yeah, that is only possible if we concentrate on the root (ie. the Koran). Every sect, from Shia, sunni, brelvi etc has common ground in Quran but they divide themselves squandering over the hadiths.

Yep that's a good point for a start & without any question we should persist on common ground . but there is sth , all of them Hadiths , Quran and also sonat should be interpreted by chosen man otherwise it'll mislead us .

 

[Zabaniyah]

There is a name for that sect, they are called Qur'anis, they don't pray five times a day and they don't do al ot of stuff Sunnis and Shias do since they entirely reject hadiths.

I've heard of this Qur'ani sect before.

How on earth can anyone pray without Hadiths? They are there so that people can pray. Be warned, there are many deceivers among us. I've heard that they are actually run by non-Muslims.

The Ummah is impossible to implement right now. At best, we can maintain good relations with one another. It's the least we should be able to do.

I can say my part of the world is doing a fairly good job to uphold that key value. I am also including the Muslims of India in this category since they are a large minority in their country.

Couldn't say much about the Middle East and Turkey.

It may happen in the future when needed. Like when the world is in great danger. But not now.

As far as the way in which whoever gets to be the Caliph, I'm still not very clear about it. Can anyone elaborate?

 

[ali786]

I've heard of this Qur'ani sect before.

How on earth can anyone pray without Hadiths? They are there so that people can pray. Be warned, there are many deceivers among us. I've heard that they are actually run by non-Muslims.

The Ummah is impossible to implement right now. At best, we can maintain good relations with one another. It's the least we should be able to do.

I can say my part of the world is doing a fairly good job to uphold that key value. I am also including the Muslims of India in this category since they are a large minority in their country.

Couldn't say much about the Middle East and Turkey.

It may happen in the future when needed. Like when the world is in great danger. But not now.

As far as the way in which whoever gets to be the Caliph, I'm still not very clear about it. Can anyone elaborate?

Dont what to insult anyone on this forum but Qur'anis are gravely misguided. They miss out on alot of they practices of Muslims - and this aint my biased opinion - this is the opinion of the majority of islamic scholars.

 

[King Solomon]

Yep that's a good point for a start & without any question we should persist on common ground . but there is sth , all of them Hadiths , Quran and also sonat should be interpreted by chosen man otherwise it'll mislead us .

I do not understand what you are actually meaning by "chosen man". At first i thought it was Ali but now it seems something else. How do you determine who is "chosen" and who is not? In that sense, even Abdullah is a chosen man because he is the one king among more than 20 million Saudis.

Dont what to insult anyone on this forum but Qur'anis are gravely misguided. They miss out on alot of they practices of Muslims - and this aint my biased opinion - this is the opinion of the majority of islamic scholars.

To each, his own. And I expect tolerance from you, not such sweeping statements.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I do not understand what you are actually meaning by "chosen man". At first i thought it was Ali but now it seems something else. How do you determine who is "chosen" and who is not? In that sense, even Abdullah is a chosen man because he is the one king among more than 20 million Saudis.



To each, his own. And I expect tolerance from you, not such sweeping statements.

Bro, are you a Russian Tatar or a Muslim religious minority in Russia?

You seem to have pay a lot of attention about the Muslims.

 

[Armstrong]

Hey, S-19 !

I do not understand what you are actually meaning by "chosen man". At first i thought it was Ali but now it seems something else. How do you determine who is "chosen" and who is not? In that sense, even Abdullah is a chosen man because he is the one king among more than 20 million Saudis.

Ever heard of the concept of 'Imammate' ? How God has sent Divinely appointed Imams, from the progeny of the Prophet, to guide the Muslims. How, or so I've heard, the Imams are infallible and the last word on religious interpretation !

To each, his own. And I expect tolerance from you, not such sweeping statements.

We have a group of Quranis in Pakistan, who allegedly had the patronage of Pakistan's founding father; they call themselves 'Tolu-e-Islam' or 'the Resurgence of Islam'. They take the Quran as their main source of guidance but don't deny the hadiths per se but they have a much stricter criteria in judging which hadith is authentic enough or not and even still they draw only inspiration from it fearing that just an excerpt as opposed to an entire Chapter (as in the Quran) may be interpreted out of context because obvious reasons. I tend to principally support that stance ! Cheers, Comrade !

 

[IbnAlwaled]

could you please tell me who are the sunni imams ? maybe you mean caliphs like Abobakr, Omar , Osman and so on ? as far as I know zydi shies believe in Imams like shies Athnā‘ashariyyah except in one Imam .

Sunnis don't have a strict criteria on who is or isn't an imam. I meant imam as scholar or ullama. Sunnis also bealive that seven of the Twelver imams as great saints and believers but not in the Shia infallible Godly inspired way. In fact they see some of the attribute Shia give to the twelve(eleven) immams as shirk. As an example, Salafis would consider your avatar and signature as shirk!. Zydis are Sunnis who admire and love Abu Baker and Omar but only believe that Ali had the right to be Khalifa.

 

[King Solomon]

Hey, S-19 !



Ever heard of the concept of 'Imammate' ? How God has sent Divinely appointed Imams, from the progeny of the Prophet, to guide the Muslims. How, or so I've heard, the Imams are infallible and the last word on religious interpretation !



We have a group of Quranis in Pakistan, who allegedly had the patronage of Pakistan's founding father; they call themselves 'Tolu-e-Islam' or 'the Resurgence of Islam'. They take the Quran as their main source of guidance but don't deny the hadiths per se but they have a much stricter criteria in judging which hadith is authentic enough or not and even still they draw only inspiration from it fearing that just an excerpt as opposed to an entire Chapter (as in the Quran) may be interpreted out of context because obvious reasons. I tend to principally support that stance ! Cheers, Comrade !

Hi, nice to talk to you Armstrong! Cheers, its so nice to see that. I expected everyone to literally charge on me for what I said but its very nice to hear that from a tolerant and cheerful person like Armstrong!

Ever heard of the concept of 'Imammate' ? How God has sent Divinely appointed Imams, from the progeny of the Prophet, to guide the Muslims. How, or so I've heard, the Imams are infallible and the last word on religious interpretation !

Yeah, I've heard that shias believe in that. They are waiting for their imam. This idea is also very prominent in Iran.

 

[faithfulguy]

How about a son of a Kenyan socialist? The same guy that wrote "Dream from my Fathers" should be consider a shoo in to hte Calipha position. He already have Muslim Brotherhood supporting him.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

Yeah, that is only possible if we concentrate on the root (ie. the Koran). Every sect, from Shia, sunni, brelvi etc has common ground in Quran but they divide themselves squandering over the hadiths.

Are you a Russian Muslim? Sorry, I can't send a pm.

 

[Hasbara Buster]

How on earth can anyone pray without Hadiths? They are there so that people can pray.

True, but it's not as black and white as you think. There are many hadiths in Bukhari/Muslim that are totally contradictory to the Qur'an. I've been reading and learning about Islam in the past 2 years. The more I learn, the more I come across grave mistakes made by our traditional scholars and imams. The four madhab imams for example have made so many mistakes and blunders, it's absolutely unbelievable.

I'm not a "Quran only" Muslim, but I definitely hold the Qur'an as the only undisputed main source of Islam because it is. Hadiths are definitely useful, but like I said they contain serious mistakes and contradictions. I could give you many examples of hadiths that go against the essence of the Qur'an - even against our core belief system (aqeedah).

 

[yoku]

Do Non-Muslims get be the Caliph? Assume a person with honesty, integrity, commitment, knowledge, wisdom, legal acumen of Highest order but not a Muslim. Does he get to be the caliph?