RealNapster
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Whatever
- Thread starter EagleEyes
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gangsta_rap
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This gonna be good...
Baby Leone
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Mentee
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operation rah e raast , kami insan bn jao hm ap k Bhai bn jay gy
Baby Leone
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shut up am already insanoperation rah e raast , kami insan bn jao hm ap k Bhai bn jay gy
I HATE U TOO
war&peace
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Anyone watched the movie Divergent?
@Divergent you should watch it...
@Divergent you should watch it...
Baby Leone
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is me kiya he?
Divergent
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Yes I have lol
war&peace
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A really good movie after a long time.
war&peace
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Oh I realised it was released in 2014, the cheapo Netflix is showing it now
Now May I ask is your ID related to it anyway?
Divergent
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Oh I realised it was released in 2014, the cheapo Netflix is showing it now
Now May I ask is your ID related to it anyway?
Lol yes, I chose my ID because I don't conform and it was inspired by that movie
Dear this discussion is totally irrelevant to that thread so I have moved your posts from that thread to here, I hope you don't mind...... . Well I appreciate your invitation to discuss this further, but you know I have totally 180 degree views on most of the matters related to Deen e Islam, my understanding very seldom matches with others, and sometimes its very difficult for people to digest a view different than their preconceived ideas and beliefs. The only reason I remained stick to this forum is because Islam is discussed in almost every other thread related to Pakistan, its politics, its society and its forces ....... and usually every time the popular narrative is traditional one, the beliefs that have been embedded in almost all of us since our childhood ...... with strict fear coded in our thinking machines and hearts that should there ever arise a situation of questioning these traditional narratives, we should remain afraid and dare not think. The result of all this ........ most of our thinking educated youth in Pakistan has gone astray, when they see all this unnecessary violence and hear contradictory views, narratives, hear say and things that don't make any sense in today's times they slowly and gradually turn atheists with no one to guide them.......... and our Mullah ...... he remains happy because as long as he is getting to address some hundred or two hundred or three hundred people once a week ...... there is no threat to his Islam and emaan.
Anyways I will gladly share my thoughts on specific points raised by you and hope no one gets offended. Though its a lengthy debate but I will try conveying my arguments to some extent.
What exactly is sharia? Why in presence of Quran we need to have a separate name assigned to some system that we will never be able to achieve in our lifetimes? Take Pakistan and its people Look around and honestly tell yourself can Muslims of today's world agree on any single definition for all of them including Sunni Shia or many other names that they call themselves? Answer I am sure would be no ........ why because all of them would try finding answers in books given to them by their mullahs and written centuries ago by some other mullahs ..... none of them would base their argument on what Quran says, even if they do they will still be referring to centuries old interpretations written by some men.
Now look at all the advocates of this Sharia in Pakistan, study their profiles, their backgrounds, their financial status and I am sure you would notice that they strictly hold to notions and beliefs that are not compatible with today's times, none of them ever dared to challenge the centuries old narrative (that was introduced centuries after departure of Messenger Muhammad Peace be upon him) ...... all of them raise slogans of Sharia when they feel threatened, or when they have to threaten another ideology or worst situation when there is personal gain involved, all the time sharia is raised its related to violence, stoning, cutting hands, crimes, flogging, killing, beheading ......... you will hardly ever notice welfare of humans (irrespective of their religion, color, class or creed) being the agenda of Sharia slogans raised by them.
All they want is to cut hands of people ... like old times, but what they don't understand is ALLAH kay banday at that time there hardly existed a proper system of jails, the justice at that time didn't require you to hire a lawyer, get a hearing date from court, go look for witnesses, get the forensics involved, gather the evidence at scene, impose a financial penalty, confiscate the assets, freeze the bank accounts and so on. Most of us live in capitalist societies (a system that is threatened by true of message of Quran) whereas those people lived in Quranic societies ....... in a society that follows laws formulated in strict compliance with guidance given by Quran, no one is supposed to accumulate wealth beyond their necessities and surplus is to be distributed and wealth kept circulating in society ..... the impact of this is that everyone gets the fair share to make his ends meet. Now where everyone is guaranteed a fair share according to his needs, there if someone steals .... its a big issue ....... but in a society that calls itself Islamic and hardly pays any heed to message of Quran (refer verses of chapter 102 and many other) if in such a society someone who is facing extreme difficulty to make his ends meet or feed his children, if such a person steals ........ what do you think who is to be blamed? In my opinion it would be the society comprised of miserable greedy people and state governed by insensitive corrupt goons. Now in this case if we proceed with cutting hands of that person .... we won't be making any right but gathering more wrath upon ourselves. As you said the prerequisite is to provide someone with fair share of resources first, to enable him to make his ends meet, after that if he still goes on to stealing then may be we can convict him of robbery but before that all of us are party to stealing crimes committed by a needy person ...... the people we quote so dearly were living in a society that was practicing Ehsaan (ehsaan is when you give some other needy person what you need yourself, regular sadqa and charity which we spare as a small percentage of our earning is not ehsaan) ........ the day we start practicing ehsaan may be that day we can start raising slogans for Sharia ........... but before that all the extra houses, plots of land (this ownership is very hard to justify when we would be made accountable for it), cars, bank balances are surplus wealth that we all accumulate and hoard and don't give it back to society, to needy, to poor, to maskeen, to orphan.
During that drought Omar once came across a fragile weak looking child, he shared his sorrow by looking at the condition of that child and people told him "Omar this child is your own granddaughter", he would strictly monitor that everyone got a fair share of food and no one was given a preferential treatment, he would question his own son for anything his children got ......... one of his accomplishments were to successfully survive that drought. He was visionary, lawful and just unlike us.
Don't feel ashamed, its not some performance / goodwill competition, its all about understanding the true message and sharing it with others. One day we will own our ills and hopefully try getting rid of them. Adding the last bit, in my humble opinion the first thing that needs to be abolished and removed from memory systems of Pakistani Muslims is "Guaranteed Jannah, no matter how sinful you are you will one day land into heaven" ........... that belief is illogical (ALLAH's own discretion in this matter is not taken into account, obviously HE is most forgiving and kind, HE may decide as HE may wish), its not that easy, it won't happen unless we have accounted for each and every action of our's.
@Khafee (sharing my thoughts) @CriticalThought (you were part of this discussion with W&P) @Hell hound (tujya to mullah bana k choro ga).
Anyways I will gladly share my thoughts on specific points raised by you and hope no one gets offended. Though its a lengthy debate but I will try conveying my arguments to some extent.
What exactly is sharia? Why in presence of Quran we need to have a separate name assigned to some system that we will never be able to achieve in our lifetimes? Take Pakistan and its people Look around and honestly tell yourself can Muslims of today's world agree on any single definition for all of them including Sunni Shia or many other names that they call themselves? Answer I am sure would be no ........ why because all of them would try finding answers in books given to them by their mullahs and written centuries ago by some other mullahs ..... none of them would base their argument on what Quran says, even if they do they will still be referring to centuries old interpretations written by some men.
Now look at all the advocates of this Sharia in Pakistan, study their profiles, their backgrounds, their financial status and I am sure you would notice that they strictly hold to notions and beliefs that are not compatible with today's times, none of them ever dared to challenge the centuries old narrative (that was introduced centuries after departure of Messenger Muhammad Peace be upon him) ...... all of them raise slogans of Sharia when they feel threatened, or when they have to threaten another ideology or worst situation when there is personal gain involved, all the time sharia is raised its related to violence, stoning, cutting hands, crimes, flogging, killing, beheading ......... you will hardly ever notice welfare of humans (irrespective of their religion, color, class or creed) being the agenda of Sharia slogans raised by them.
All they want is to cut hands of people ... like old times, but what they don't understand is ALLAH kay banday at that time there hardly existed a proper system of jails, the justice at that time didn't require you to hire a lawyer, get a hearing date from court, go look for witnesses, get the forensics involved, gather the evidence at scene, impose a financial penalty, confiscate the assets, freeze the bank accounts and so on. Most of us live in capitalist societies (a system that is threatened by true of message of Quran) whereas those people lived in Quranic societies ....... in a society that follows laws formulated in strict compliance with guidance given by Quran, no one is supposed to accumulate wealth beyond their necessities and surplus is to be distributed and wealth kept circulating in society ..... the impact of this is that everyone gets the fair share to make his ends meet. Now where everyone is guaranteed a fair share according to his needs, there if someone steals .... its a big issue ....... but in a society that calls itself Islamic and hardly pays any heed to message of Quran (refer verses of chapter 102 and many other) if in such a society someone who is facing extreme difficulty to make his ends meet or feed his children, if such a person steals ........ what do you think who is to be blamed? In my opinion it would be the society comprised of miserable greedy people and state governed by insensitive corrupt goons. Now in this case if we proceed with cutting hands of that person .... we won't be making any right but gathering more wrath upon ourselves. As you said the prerequisite is to provide someone with fair share of resources first, to enable him to make his ends meet, after that if he still goes on to stealing then may be we can convict him of robbery but before that all of us are party to stealing crimes committed by a needy person ...... the people we quote so dearly were living in a society that was practicing Ehsaan (ehsaan is when you give some other needy person what you need yourself, regular sadqa and charity which we spare as a small percentage of our earning is not ehsaan) ........ the day we start practicing ehsaan may be that day we can start raising slogans for Sharia ........... but before that all the extra houses, plots of land (this ownership is very hard to justify when we would be made accountable for it), cars, bank balances are surplus wealth that we all accumulate and hoard and don't give it back to society, to needy, to poor, to maskeen, to orphan.
During that drought Omar once came across a fragile weak looking child, he shared his sorrow by looking at the condition of that child and people told him "Omar this child is your own granddaughter", he would strictly monitor that everyone got a fair share of food and no one was given a preferential treatment, he would question his own son for anything his children got ......... one of his accomplishments were to successfully survive that drought. He was visionary, lawful and just unlike us.
Don't feel ashamed, its not some performance / goodwill competition, its all about understanding the true message and sharing it with others. One day we will own our ills and hopefully try getting rid of them. Adding the last bit, in my humble opinion the first thing that needs to be abolished and removed from memory systems of Pakistani Muslims is "Guaranteed Jannah, no matter how sinful you are you will one day land into heaven" ........... that belief is illogical (ALLAH's own discretion in this matter is not taken into account, obviously HE is most forgiving and kind, HE may decide as HE may wish), its not that easy, it won't happen unless we have accounted for each and every action of our's.
@Khafee (sharing my thoughts) @CriticalThought (you were part of this discussion with W&P) @Hell hound (tujya to mullah bana k choro ga).
You cannot pray for hidayat for devil. For devil chose it's path willingly and arrogantly. In you, me, Maulana Tariq Jamil and all of us, who is devil?? One who says that man is just an entity made of mud, nothing else.
The 'student' spoke foul once on media. The teacher Maulana Tariq Jamil, being the master of his art, daily speaks foul. He'll meet his fate in a masterly manner.
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