Whatever

[Levina]

Okay I'll watch it when I have some time to spare !

In short, you 're not gonna watch it.
So I guess taking this discussion further would be a waste of time and energy.

An Islamic state wasn't what was envisioned Pakistan to be; a pluralistic democracy (not a Secular one mind you) where Muslims can practice their religion and more so have aspects of their religion institutionalized is what Pakistan was envisioned to be.

May be!
But ZuH changed everything!!!

Jinnah Sahib wasn't adamant about Partition it wasn't as if he woke up one day and started screaming about Partition. The Muslim cause went from a protest against the pseudo-secular approach of the Congress (the dragging in of Hindu religious symbolism in Politics) to the demand of separate electorates to the demand for provincial autonomy in a federal India with a weak center but strong provinces to finally asking for a separate country when we felt that all avenues of opportunities had been explored with little result to show for it.

So far as I know he envisioned that Pakistan and India would have the same relationship as Canada and the US - thats not the same as the ill-will shown by Monty and the Congress to the nascent state of Pakistan in hopes that it would implode on itself and the Muslims would come begging back to India when they have neither an army nor an administration nor are they released their due funds to cobble together a functioning state.

"begging back to India" seems to be your fav line. Lol
Its quite a possibility that Indian leaders assumed that Pakistan would merge with India for many reasons
1) As I said Jinnah's wish towards the fag end of his life to come back to India.
2) They assumed that those who had to leave their homes would return someday. (Infact many who left India gave the keys of their houses to their neighbors in a hope that someday they would be able to return back....alas! )

yeh apne mujhe ander ki khabar dey thanks for that , i really dint knew about it . By the way i am at my behavioral best with mods and tts here , i have reserved my trolling only for pdf lalus Color_Less_Sky and pomogranate , if i am banned then you can safely assume mods here derive sadistic pleasures in hunting indians down on this forum.

Nai kuch nahi hoga jab. Usually tawdry posts and abuses against a religion or country is what forces the mods to use their ban hammer. I like most of the mods here (including horus, he might be posting some flamebaits but when it comes to moderation he's fair lolz). The only issue is that they 're lazy.

 

[gau8av]

Huge Weapons - Raid in Islamabad - Terrorists Target (23rd March Parade Even). bc locked

@war khan

Huge Weapons - Raid in Islamabad - Terrorists Target (23rd March Parade Even).

And u believe such BS???

those were from a few years ago, tbh I don't know what to make of it.. maybe such a strategy does have merit.

I remember watching a 'yudh abhyas' video from some years ago and a green beret was interviewed and he said they learnt a lot because the Indian SF team approached the objective in a completely different way, one they would never have thought of themselves.

I wasnt meaning to deride you guys there, I'm sure **** strategic forces command are no slouches.. just that we do stuff differently here in the subcontinent

 

[Armstrong]

In short, you 're not gonna watch it.
So I guess taking this discussion further would be a waste of time and energy.

I will watch it...aaap merii amaaaa na banooo !

May be!
But ZuH changed everything!!!

It started well before ZuH though it peaked during his time. After the country was created the filth who used to call Our Father as Kafir-e-Azam suddenly became the biggest custodians of Islam. Ironically enough they were allies to the Congress party before the Partition and had fought tooth and nail to oppose the creation of Pakistan - Majlis-i-Ahrar, Jamiat-i-Ulema-i-Hind (became -i-Pakistan).

"begging back to India" seems to be your fav line. Lol
Its quite a possibility that Indian leaders assumed that Pakistan would merge with India for many reasons
1) As I said Jinnah's wish towards the fag end of his life to come back to India.
2) They assumed that those who had to leave their homes would return someday. (Infact many who left India gave the keys of their houses to their neighbors in a hope that someday they would be able to return back....alas! )

I have read a lot about Jinnah Sahib (he is my idol after all); I don't recall reading anything he said about him wanting to come back to India at the end of his life anywhere though I've read that assertion many times over !

So far as I have been able to gather he wanted a Canada-US like relations for us but it was not to be !

And no Indian leaders didn't think Pakistan would merge with India because they were bleeding heart humanitarians they thought that because they didn't think that a mouth eaten and truncated Pakistan without an Army or an Administration, with massacres happening on its borders, with millions of refugees coming in it who need to be settled and who's funds had been effectively blocked would be able to survive...that we'd coming begging back to Monty and the Congress to please save us !

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

Huge Weapons - Raid in Islamabad - Terrorists Target (23rd March Parade Even). bc locked

@war khan

Huge Weapons - Raid in Islamabad - Terrorists Target (23rd March Parade Even).


those were from a few years ago, tbh I don't know what to make of it.. maybe such a strategy does have merit.

I remember watching a 'yudh abhyas' video from some years ago and a green beret was interviewed and he said they learnt a lot because the Indian SF team approached the objective in a completely different way, one they would never have thought of themselves.

I wasnt meaning to deride you guys there, I'm sure **** strategic forces command are no slouches.. just that we do stuff differently here in the subcontinent

Those were some random trolling articles which have no credibility.Do u realy think,that our Stretegic Force Command is so dumb to transfer nukes through civilian transport without optimum security.Also it was written in that article that de mated as well as mated nuclear warheads were transposrted......The answer to that illogical article is simply that Pakistan does not mate warheads with their delivery systems unless they are due to be tested or launched against the enemy

 

[gau8av]

Jinnah Sahib wasn't adamant about Partition it wasn't as if he woke up one day and started screaming about Partition. The Muslim cause went from a protest against the pseudo-secular approach of the Congress (the dragging in of Hindu religious symbolism in Politics) to the demand of separate electorates to the demand for provincial autonomy in a federal India with a weak center but strong provinces to finally asking for a separate country when we felt that all avenues of opportunities had been explored with little result to show for it.

truth is Jinnah sahab was an evil genius lawyer who worked for feudal interests in what is now Pakistan and helped propagate a false narrative to divide people.

yes, gandhi was no great soul either.

Kashmiris in the valley were more enamored with the idea of Nehruvian socialism and were against **** feudalism.

in the end both sides' people suffered greatly because of dirty politics.



it's a much bigger discussion of course, but.....

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

I remember watching a 'yudh abhyas' video from some years ago and a green beret was interviewed and he said they learnt a lot because the Indian SF team approached the objective in a completely different way, one they would never have thought of themselves.

I wasnt meaning to deride you guys there, I'm sure **** strategic forces command are no slouches.. just that we do stuff differently here in the subcontinent

We may do stuff differently here in sub continent but that does not mean that we go crazy

 

[Armstrong]

truth is Jinnah sahab was an evil genius lawyer who worked for feudal interests in what is now Pakistan and helped propagate a false narrative to divide people.

yes, gandhi was no great soul either.

Kashmiris in the valley were more enamored with the idea of Nehruvian socialism and were against **** feudalism.

in the end both sides' people suffered greatly because of dirty politics.

it's a much bigger discussion of course, but.....

Very profound !

 

[gau8av]

Those were some random trolling articles which have no credibility.Do u realy think,that our Stretegic Force Command is so dumb to transfer nukes through civilian transport without optimum security.Also it was written in that article that de mated as well as mated nuclear warheads were transposrted......The answer to that illogical article is simply that Pakistan does not mate warheads with their delivery systems unless they are due to be tested or launched against the enemy

even unmated, that is the most sensitive technology around.

but it's it's not wise to be entirely dismissive to such a move, again I'll say.. maybe in certain special scenarios it was a good tactic to employ.

I'd say that was a bad leak, now the world knows a bit more about your stealth transport tactics.

 

[Ray_of_Hope]

even unmated, that is the most sensitive technology around.

but it's it's not wise to be entirely dismissive to such a move, again I'll say.. maybe in certain special scenarios it was a good tactic to employ.

I'd say that was a bad leak, now the world knows a bit more about your stealth transport tactics.

But still i donot think this method was ever employed.This is just pure BS.Point

 

[gau8av]

Very profound !

hey, I said it's a much bigger discussion

and one that is useless to have considering where we all are at currently

 

[Levina]

I will watch it...aaap merii amaaaa na banooo !

Kyun?
kya karloge?
Achhi cheezen toh dekhni nahi hai janab ney

why did I even recommend that 4 starred documentary to you

It started well before ZuH though it peaked during his time. After the country was created the filth who used to call Our Father as Kafir-e-Azam suddenly became the biggest custodians of Islam. Ironically enough they were allies to the Congress party before the Partition and had fought tooth and nail to oppose the creation of Pakistan - Majlis-i-Ahrar, Jamiat-i-Ulema-i-Hind (became -i-Pakistan).

What matters is who gave the final blow!!!

I have read a lot about Jinnah Sahib (he is my idol after all); I don't recall reading anything he said about him wanting to come back to India at the end of his life anywhere though I've read that assertion many times over !

You 're contradicting yourself.

And no Indian leaders didn't think Pakistan would merge with India because they were bleeding heart humanitarians they thought that because they didn't think that a mouth eaten and truncated Pakistan without an Army or an Administration, with massacres happening on its borders, with millions of refugees coming in it who need to be settled and who's funds had been effectively blocked would be able to survive...that we'd coming begging back to Monty and the Congress to please save us !

You can never be mellifluous about our leaders isn't it???
Your opinion about our leaders is askew.
Most of the Indian leaders didn't want a partition in the first place for it was easy to predict the future of the nations thus born. But when it became inevitable then they agreed for date in june 1948.
Had Britishers not been in such a hurry to leave India, then so many innocent souls would not have lost their lives. The bitterness of it exists even today, that's the impression your posts give me.

 

[gau8av]

But still i donot think this method was ever employed.This is just pure BS.Point

maybe, maybe not.

either way, now we know to factor in possible nuclear milk vans too when tracking your bombs

 

[Armstrong]

Kyun?
kya karloge?
Achhi cheezen toh dekhni nahi hai janab ney

why did I even recommend that 4 starred documentary to you

Deeekhhh lunnn gaaa !

What matter is who gave the final blow!!!

I'd rather look at the entire evolution of the process not just who gave the last push !

You 're contradicting yourself.

How so ?

You can never be mellifluous about our leaders isn't it???
Your opinion about our leaders is askew.
Most of the Indian leaders didn't want a partition in the first place for it was easy to predict the future of the nations thus born. But when it became inevitable then they agreed for date in june 1948.
Had Britishers not been in such a hurry to leave India, then so many innocent souls would not have lost their lives. The bitterness of it exists even today, that's the impression your posts give me.

No it isn't; I respect most of your leaders I just don't agree with them.

On the contrary the bitterness wouldn't have been there had mature and sensible leadership and not jingoistic dunder heads led our Nations in the years after the Partition. We got our Independence from Britain after all ? And our Colonial masters weren't exactly kind and caring towards us and yet the bitterness didn't endure anymore than a handful of years after the Partition because no one put more fuel to fire as in our case.

And had the Britishers left according to their 3rd June Plan we would have an Army and an Administration in place to stop those massacres - We hadn't anything. I remember my Grandpa telling me how they used to take out old files and use papers with one empty sides while crossing out the used side and would put the papers together using thorns from a keekar/acacia tree.

@Kashmiri Nationalist - Abbb tu Bhai ko lift hi nahin karvataa ?

 

[Levina]

Deeekhhh lunnn gaaa !

Kab dekhoge?

I'd rather look at the entire evolution of the process not just who gave the last push !

In your case it was the collective failure of your leadership.
With partition, a lot of extremists moved to Pakistan which is why it was easy for 'em to be raucous.
Jinnah should 've foreseen this before demanding for partition.

How so ?

Actually that was blatant lie or may be you've read just one sided opinions about Jinnah. I don't blame you. Often humans 're blinded by the admiration for a person.

I remember my Grandpa telling me how they used to take out old files and use papers with one empty sides while crossing out the used side and would put the papers together using thorns from a keekar/acacia tree.

This whooshed over my head.

 

[Armstrong]

Kab dekhoge?

Jubbb time ho ga; abhiii tou excel par saath saaath kaaam ho rahaa haiii !

In your case it was the collective failure of your leadership.
With partition, a lot of extremists moved to Pakistan which is why it was easy for 'em to be raucous.
Jinnah should 've foreseen this before demanding for partition.

That is a very weak argument and one that would apply in equal measure to India or even to Bangladesh. If the failures in governance later on including the presence of extremism and separatism is a yardstick for anything might we suggest that perhaps the Indian leaders should've thought better to ask for independence from the British or likewise that the Bangladeshis shouldn't have asked us for theirs ?

No because Nations are born because of the will and wants of millions and the only justification they need is the fact that they exist and nothing more.

Furthermore an interesting point of note is that those extremist elements were almost exclusively associated with the Congress Party and were adamantly against Pakistan. The Majlis-i-Ahrar who spearheaded the Anti-Ahmediya movement were an ally of the Congress throughout. Likewise the Majlis-i-Ulema-Pakistan (that was created out of the remnants of the MiU-Hind) were allies of the Congress who supported ZuH throughout.

The Pakistan Movement was spearheaded by progressive elements of Muslim India not the regressive reactionary dotheads that were allied with the Congress (subject to some exceptions of course)

Actually that was blatant lie or may be you've read just one sided opinions about Jinnah. I don't blame you. Often humen 're blinded by the admiration for a person.

What was a blatant lie ? I have read extensively about Quaid-e-Azam from the works of Ayesha Jalal to the works of Sairojini Naidu and numerous other people in between. My own personal library is full of books on the man from very diverse sources including those written by people who knew him on a personal level. I really don't recall Jinnah Sahib being every quoted in any of those books as having said that he'd want to move to India after the Partition though I have heard this assertion many times by many people. All I'm interested is to find out what is the basis of this assertion ? Is it something verifiable or plain he-said...she-said hearsay ?

This whooshed over my head.

Its alright; the Almighty didn't endow the Dravidians with an abundance of intellect anyhow !