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What Should be the "ideal" size of the Pakistan Navy in 2020.

Zardari's government will pack there bags next year, and then there will be a lot of development, and InshaAllah in next 8 years we will have the edge

The same was said few years back when Musharraf was at the helm,once he retires and democratically elected govt comes in things will change ... it seems to get worse than get better !
 
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PN as of right now:
4 F-22Ps
2 Type 54a
3 Agosta 90B
2 Upgraded Agosta 70
6 Qing class subs
1+5 OPH
1 LPD
6 Amazon frigs
3 Mine hunters
7 FACs Jallalat class + Larkana class 600 ton chinese FACs being built in Karachi n china
2 -4?-MRTCPs
8-10 Aux ships
12 Griffon class hover crafts
2-4 midget subs X-Crafts

Air wing:
12 Z-9 ASW helis
2 Atlanquie
12 PC-3 Orion upgraded with Hawkeye 2Ds ---2 destroyed to be replaced by usa.
8 SA 319B
3 Linx
6 Sea kings
34 PAF mirage ROSE
7 fokkers
UAVs (indigenous plus VTOL ones)


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Come on dude , what u have posted is something which you expect in 2020

You guys dont have Type 54A or Qing class currently in service , they are on order

As far as Type 21 Amazon class frigates are concerned , well they are already between 33-37 yrs old and to expect them to serve till 2020 and beyond as many of you suggest is plain stupid and cause serious deterioration to it 2750 ton Hull .
when you look at the fact that USN recently announced retirement of 11000 ton cruisers after 25 yrs in service
Then how can a 3000 Ton ship serve for 45 yrs .

As far as OHP and LPD are concerned , well Looking at the US Pak relation at present , it is unlikely that USN will release 5 more OHP and 1 LPD to PN , You might get 1 more OHP to sustain anti piracy operations and reduce the load on F22P
But still why would PN be interested in Inducting 30 yr old frigates , even though they might be more capable and larger than Tariq class , at 4000 Ton compared to 3000 Tons
I mean look at it this way OHP class PNS Alamgir at 33 yrs of age , is about as old as PNS Tipu Sultan and only 4 yrs Younger than PNS Babur which will be the first of the Tariq class to retire

I think PN is better off asking china for 3-4 Second Hand Destroyers preferably younger than 25 yrs of age , than looking at US for OHP , coz unlike US , china wont De-fang a warship before selling it as was the case with PNS Alamgir , which had a few missiles and electronics removed before transfer to PAK
 
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we are now taking with USA on 5-6 more Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates they may be delivered 2014-15 expected
4-6 fast attack Chinese ships and more 6 f-22p frigates
6 Chinese and 3 Aguste 90b subs will give strength the attacking power 2 gusta70 being upgraded soon
6-10 Milgem stealth Corvettes as well as Chinese stealth type-54a Corvettes.
we have still option of german type-214 subs but that need fund
Pakistan navy is waiting for 8-10 ex-p3c Orion aircrafts from USA.
we may also adopt Chinese sea uavs
Pakistan navy have plans but Pakistan have no funds
 
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we are now taking with USA on 5-6 more Oliver Hazard Perry class frigates they may be delivered 2014-15 expected
4-6 fast attack Chinese ships and more 6 f-22p frigates
6 Chinese and 3 Aguste 90b subs will give strength the attacking power 2 gusta70 being upgraded soon
6-10 Milgem stealth Corvettes as well as Chinese stealth type-54a Corvettes.
we have still option of german type-214 subs but that need fund
Pakistan navy is waiting for 8-10 ex-p3c Orion aircrafts from USA.
we may also adopt Chinese sea uavs
Pakistan navy have plans but Pakistan have no funds

The Type 054A is a frigate.
 
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At any given time the numbers of PN defence requirements should be atleast..
this just an estimate and possible in next 4 to 5 years only with genuine and honest hardship

14 Frigates: multi role or missile guided. type 54A class, F22p and or up graded version of F22P which can be built in pakistan around 3500 to 4000 tons. turkish french, german frigates.
4 Corvettes: Turkish MILGEM. Chinese.
15 to 20 missile boat: houbei class, The Type 037-II, PNS AZMAT
20 fast attack/ petrol boat
6 mine hunters.
14 Auxiliary ships.
1 command ship. if required and possible
1 hospital ship. if required and possible


Submarines:
10 submarines: chinese Qing class, agosta 70, 90B. PN has the TOT for agosta 90 they can improve the designs and built more up graded version with chinese or french help which will be cheaper. if possible PN could lease a nuclear sub from china......

Naval aviation

18 Harbin Z-9EC anti-submarine warfare helicopters( based on ships)
16 Westland LYNX or harbin z9 and Sea King Mk45
14 Lockheed P-3C Orion maritime surveillance/anti-submarine warfare aircraft/airborne early warning.
10 CASA/IPTN CN-235:maritime surveillance/anti-submarine warfare aircraft.
48----- 3 squadron of 16 fighters: JF17 or Mirages or j11b or j10. for naval role.

the naval ssg should increase its size to a regiment level. The Pak Marines should increase its size to a corp level providing them inhance training on amphibious warfare, including the operation of landing crafts; mountain warfare; like the UK royal marines OR FRENCH FOREIGN legions

the PN Alamgir is more of a petrol an anti smuggling ship, as it does not have an weapons except torpedos, so I would not count it as a combat ship.

MOST IMPORTANTLY ALL THIS IS VERY MUCH POSSIBLE WITH LITTLE CREATIVITY,ingenuity
JAZBA AND LESS FILLING OF THE POCKETS the billions of dollars that disappears every year in ministers pockets
should be invested on equipments an also upgrading the jawans and officers salaries, better education. benefits and retirements.
 
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Err.. There are no Aircraft carriers mentioned in that list. :blink:

Dont worry brother US defence department has signed off a whole battle group to Pakistan navy of latest aircraft carrier 2 nuclear submarines, 3 destroyers, 3 frigates, 2 corvettes and 3 support ship. Besides this US is also offering the F18, and F15 fighters for the carriers, plus all support aircrafts and helicopters. US navy cannot wait to transfer all these equipments to PN for free of cost but Pakistan has refused to take any military aid so currently it is pending, but dont worry we will get all this for free aid from US by the end of this year hope you are satisfied and very happy with this news. US has noticed that PN has very low budget, PN as they already cannot afford to buy equipments and are living on loans and gifts and charity from china, so hopefully with all this new US hardware i hope PN annual budget does not blow out only on mintaining 1 aircraft carrier, you can forget the rest of the navy,, only future with tell....
 
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Present
6 Type 21
1 OHP
3 F22P
= 10 frigates

Suggested near future
3 chinese built F22p
1+2 additional domestically built F22p
6 additional domestically built F22p+ (domestic variant: using e.g. Umkhonto Mk2 VL SAM, different sensors)
= 12 frigates

3-6 SSK
3-6 MCM
3-6 FACM/PGM

12 Orion MPA
6 Medium ASW helicopter
6 Medium Utility helicopter
12 Z9 light ASW-H
 
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Pakistan need to have 22 + Frigates and 12 Submarines with around 30 Missile Boats other wise it will be really very hard for us to defend our Waters from aggression
 
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3, 4 ACs bhi rakh lo. :)
I don't think we need Aircraft carrier till 2030.
B/w 2016-2020, 1 nuclear powered Submarine is needed.
At-least 50 J-11BH b/w 2016-2020.
50 JF17 b/w 2014-2018.
6 Qing class submarine are enough with 1 nuclear powered submarine.
At least 1 Destroyer
 
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Although I would and may be everyone would love if PN had decided to join the Chinese in Type 54 program as well some Corvettes and FAC program, other than that PN could also join the SSK and SSBN program as well.
Then the fleet should look like that in 2020:
4 Type54
4 Type54A
4 Type54B
2/4 Corvette-I
4 Corvette-II
4 Corvette-III
4 FAC-I
4 FAC-II
6 FAC-III
3 Agosta90B
4 SSK-I
4 SSK-II
4 SSK-III
7 SSBN

Although its sounds huge but this will make difference that is not present in the Asian Waters.
 
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lol .... you guys should learn something form the Germans and the Soviets, neither tried to match their enemys surface fleet in ww2 and the cold war respectively.... they had massive number of submarines though... In my opinion scrap the destroyers and LPD's ... go for more conventional subs,
 
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I guess I want to see at least 10 Qing class subs with stealth cruise missiles 2500km plus U214 subs at least 5 in number alongwith the stealth version of supersonic stealth babur cruise missiles. I guess then I can say its a threat to our enemies in reality.The rest U can add whatever U like......:smokin:

a cruise missile of that range and that speed would be the size of a small attack boat...
 
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