What is the problem with Iran and JF-17?

[Blue In Green]

Valid points.

If not JF-17, I could see Iran going for Su-35, in fact maybe Pakistan should also consider Su-35 to counter Rafale until Project Azm gains traction or JF-17 gets big upgrades.

The really unfortunate issue with Iran acquiring any modern air-craft especially Russian Su-30SM or Su-35 (which is what Iran needs) is that at its core, Iran will be fighting an uphill multi-national diplomatic battle with Israel and the United States trying to sabotage Russian and Iranian efforts to complete the transaction and subsequent transfer of weapons. I don't put it paste Israel or America to try and physically destroy components of the deal or sabotage aspects of the deal either. It's within their MO, which adds another layer of uncertainty for Iran regarding the acquisition of new aircraft.

The original S-300 deal was such a debacle that it left a rather bad taste in many Iranians mouth, also it hasn't been forgotten. The Russians caved into Western/Israeli pressure which left Iran vulnerable in a time where both nations were seriously considering a strike against Iranian soil. Needless to say if Iran were to engage in serious negotiations for the Su-30SMs or Su-35s, it would have to proceed cautiously and with prudence.

 

[nahtanbob]

Pakistan knows that won't ever happen. Bangladesh & India are tight hommies.

Trust me, Bangladesh isn't even on the 'Consideration'.

Besides, heard Bangladesh with its booming economy are going big time West in the short future. Good for them.

in that case sri lanka would be off the table

 

[Blue In Green]

can they not fly it under the table? albeit a big table

why does it feel like Iran is under the protection of them "adversaries"?

The point I was making is that Iran's enemies field very advanced and capable fighter air-craft and Iran would have to also acquire and put into service air-craft that are equally as capable in order to be more effective.

 

[doorstar]

The point I was making is that Iran's enemies field very advanced and capable fighter air-craft and Iran would have to also acquire and put into service air-craft that are equally as capable in order to be more effective.

my point is that Iran is in no imminent danger from NATO (or Israeli) jets

 

[Aspen]

The really unfortunate issue with Iran acquiring any modern air-craft especially Russian Su-30SM or Su-35 (which is what Iran needs) is that at its core, Iran will be fighting an uphill multi-national diplomatic battle with Israel and the United States trying to sabotage Russian and Iranian efforts to complete the transaction and subsequent transfer of weapons. I don't put it paste Israel or America to try and physically destroy components of the deal or sabotage aspects of the deal either. It's within their MO, which adds another layer of uncertainty for Iran regarding the acquisition of new aircraft.

The original S-300 deal was such a debacle that it left a rather bad taste in many Iranians mouth, also it hasn't been forgotten. The Russians caved into Western/Israeli pressure which left Iran vulnerable in a time where both nations were seriously considering a strike against Iranian soil. Needless to say if Iran were to engage in serious negotiations for the Su-30SMs or Su-35s, it would have to proceed cautiously and with prudence.

So I could it see going something like this:

If Russia caves and backs out of an Su-35 deal, doesn't that basically leave Pakistan as the only country that could realistically sell Iran a 4th gen jet without logistical/sabotage issues?

I would imagine that Pakistan has a big advantage over Russia in selling to Iran because Pakistan-Iran logistics and movement of aircraft are a lot simpler than Russia-Iran logistics. Israel could possibly try to intercept shipments between Russia and Iran via Azerbaijan but that would be impossible between Pakistan and Iran due to a large shared border. If it came down to it, JF-17's could even be trucked across by road, that option doesn't exist for Russia or any other country selling jets to Iran so this is a huge advantage for Pakistan in terms of keeping the deal secret until the delivery.

Additionally, Pakistan would have the element of surprise as well since Israel and US probably aren't expecting Iran to buy JF-17 or for Pakistan to sell it. Most people probably think Iran would go for Russian jets which gives it a lot more scrutiny than JF-17.

 

[Asad Hashmi]

Ya Allah! Have mercy on these idiotic know it alls. Iran is under a UN arms embargo until October 2020. Until then no country can sell to them lest they face sanctions, too. Us ke baad ye extend nahin hona as China and Russia will veto it. Phir aap baich ker commission le lena.

 

[Blue In Green]

my point is that Iran is in no imminent danger from NATO (or Israeli) jets

Fair enough but I will have to respectively disagree on that.

 

[Armchair]

If China exports FC-1s to Iran, Pakistan is bound by contract to fulfill its portion of the manufacturing. There are no two ways about this.

 

[Blue In Green]

So I could it see going something like this:

If Russia caves and backs out of an Su-35 deal, doesn't that basically leave Pakistan as the only country that could realistically sell Iran a 4th gen jet without logistical/sabotage issues?

I would imagine that Pakistan has a big advantage over Russia in selling to Iran because Pakistan-Iran logistics and movement of aircraft are a lot simpler than Russia-Iran logistics. Israel could possibly try to intercept shipments between Russia and Iran via Azerbaijan but that would be impossible between Pakistan and Iran due to a large shared border. If it came down to it, JF-17's could even be trucked across by road, that option doesn't exist for Russia or any other country selling jets to Iran so this is a huge advantage for Pakistan in terms of keeping the deal secret until the delivery.

Additionally, Pakistan would have the element of surprise as well since Israel and US probably aren't expecting Iran to buy JF-17 or for Pakistan to sell it. Most people probably think Iran would go for Russian jets which gives it a lot more scrutiny than JF-17.

Honestly, I did have a rather long-form discussion about Iran possibly acquiring the JF-17 and what role it would play for the Iranian armed forces. Basically the JF-17 would replace the older outdated F-5 fleet and work in tandem with the F-4s and Su-24s Fencer strike air-craft in order to greatly expand Iranian strike capability across the broad being an overall welcomed addition to Iranian offensive capabilities. The biggest plus (depending on how a potential JF-17 deal works out) would be that since the JF-17 is relatively cheap, it can be made in great numbers and be used for different purposes if necessary although its primary purpose would be striking targets. When taking a holistic view, the JF-17 along with the indigenous cruise missile and ballistic missile production would be a "good" addition, depending on how you view it.

I would hope that if a potential JF-17 deal were to be struck, there would be a TOT and full (or at least partial) production in Iran, further more I would like to see if Iran-China-Pakistan can further advance the JF-17 into something bigger, stronger and more powerful. Akin to F-15E Strike Eagle if progression went far enough. What I would like to see as well is further Iranian cooperation with Pakistan and China in home-made defense efforts. Sincerely would be a nice thing to see honestly.

If you ask me though, I'm not against Iran acquiring the JF-17, I do think it has its merits.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Main reason would be saudi saudi uae uae turks dont have or wont ever order it. Since they don't or wont if we sell it to iranians. United states and these non shia muslim states would think as Pakistan siding with iran...

We in Pakistan would like neutrality. Hence no jf 17 in iran yet.

There is also the prospect of united states and britian viewing Pakistan as a potential enemy cuz we supply em weapons.

We would like to keep balance with our alliances with arabs and amercians simple.
Selling them jf17 would closes more doors than open new ones. Hence not worth it at point in time.

 

[FuturePAF]

For Iran, after dealing with the Russians on the S-300 deal, they would want to deal with only countries that won’t be pressured. Pakistan has may points it can be pressure in any arms deal with Iran, hence why they would go for an all Chinese option, if the Chinese are willing, and once the WS-10 is mature enough to the Iranian’s satisfaction.

They would go big and buy hundreds of J-10CE, replacing all but their F-14s and MiG-29s, and perhaps some of their F-4s

While the JF-17 is great value for money, with barter trade, they will try to get one type that they can go all in on, to decrease the chances the deal falls apart

 

[doorstar]

Fair enough but I will have to respectfully disagree on that.

okay then. may I ask about your origins? Irani, Bharati or Pakistani?

 

[Qutb-ud-din Aybak]

I cannot for the life of me understand why Pakistan has not already sold Iran a couple dozen JF-17's.

Pakistan has been in desperate need of cash for the past year and the economy is in the toilet. Somehow Pakistan has not figured out that to make money you need to increase exports. JF-17 is probably the most important export Pakistan has.

Iran needs to improve their Air Force. West is not selling to Iran, so that leaves Russia or Pakistan. What is the problem with Iran and JF-17? Pakistan needs cash and Iran needs planes. JF-17 doesn't use any western parts which means Iran doesn't have to worry about any restrictions. Pakistan can sell dozens of JF-17's and log a giant boost to the economy since at least half of Iran's Air Force should be replaced and they are a big buyer with plenty of money. If sanctions are the problem, Pakistan can sell them under the table without any acknowledgement of the deal. It is kind of amazing that Iran doesn't already have JF-17's, it is the most obvious deal Pakistan could make. Pakistan desperately needs a big export boost for economy, Iran desperately needs new planes for Air Force, Iran JF-17 deal should be a no brainer for both sides at this point. It is hard to believe Iran JF-17 deal has not already happened. I thought it would've happened 5 years ago.

Many reasons:
Pakistan don't sell weapons to the terrorists or blacklisted countries.
Pakistan is neutral in the middle east.
Pakatan don't want jf-17 to be used by Syria or hizbullah.
Pakistan is still trying to locate missing persons fighting in Syria.
Pakistan don't want Iran to give India access to our front line technology.

 

[Blue In Green]

okay then. may I ask about your origins? Irani, Bharati or Pakistani?

I'm an American son born in the United States to two legal Iranian immigrants.

 

[GumNaam]

1. iran is far more broke than we still ever be
2. it's leverage on the saudis to keep Pakistan in its good "brotherly" books
3. iran is far too much of a turn coat given how they just caved our nuclear help & cooperated with india on chabahar
4. following upon #3, they can use our own Thunders against us