What can bring India and Pakistan closer

[Srinivas]

you can call china as your best friend but the fact of the matter is china is using Pakistan as a proxy against India.
there won't be any free lunches, so wake up and stop hating India.

 

[IceCold]

you can call china as your best friend but the fact of the matter is china is using Pakistan as a proxy against India.
there won't be any free lunches, so wake up and stop hating India.

We donot need to learn this from Indians so better stay out of it and mind your own business about who should we hate and who we shouldnt.
By the way we dont hate India, we hate certain polices of theirs including Kashmir.

 

[Developereo]

legally at parition kashmir was taken a Indian, you invade, and you have occupied. Illegally.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/33133-myth-indian-claim-jammu-kashmir-reappraisal.html

India and Pakistan are natural allies. We have Kashmir to settle. Musharraf was correct in stating this position and I say no more than that. I am not going to put all of Pakistan's eggs in the seemingly large (yet practically small) basket of China for any ideological reasons.

Why does it have to be either-or? Why can't we be friends with both China and India.
As far as taking sides between them, we can worry about it if/when they get into conflict.

Even the pro-freedom sepratists proclaim secular credentials, they want a united J&K.

I have read many Pakistanis say that they are ok with an independant J&K. But do you know that GoP is not!

If the people of Kashmir vote for a united, independent Kashmir, most Pakistanis would be fine with it. The GOP will fall in line with public opinion in Pakistan.

 

[Musalman]

If you think people of J&K want another "partition" you are mistaken. Even the pro-freedom sepratists proclaim secular credentials, they want a united J&K.

Its already is partitioned. Dividing it on religious line is the only way out now. Or may be a fully indpendent or Andora like country. Point is unless its not resolved we can never have good relations with India. I know you Indians are brain washed in the way that we will create another issue where as we have accepted all the decisions for peace even if they do not suit us like Rann of Katch and Jungadh plebiscite.

 

[duhastmish]

ONLY A WORLD WAR - can bring India and Pakistan closer.

there is no other way - political and bureaucrats will allow the peace in the region.

OTHER possible way i see is - may be in 15-20 yrs , the next genration which will be smarter will realise there is nothing to gain in - this anti indian or anti pakistani view.

another way can be - alien invation.

 

[deep.ocean]

There are few steps that can bring both countires...
1. Kashmir issue. (But this will not end hating towards Indian because of Hindu Dominance)
2. China invading Pakistan. (Hypothetical Issue)
and last most important step would be
3. All hindus converted to Islam...(It will be the best step)

 

[praveen]

Hi,
I am just sick and tired of animosity between India and Pakistan. I have seen moderate voice from both sides in this forum. I want to explore what India and Pakistan can do to bridge the Gap and get them closer.

My request to people who have nothing to add but just flame any topic to stay away from this thread. I do not want a serious discussion to turn into bashing each other.

I feel serious value in India and Pakistan becoming friend. Both stands to gain. I do not know how that be done. I know for sure people who flame on both sides are not the ones that can do it.

Here is what I feel we stand to gain.
1) Better trade means both nations can reduce cost of buying.
2) Pakistan can gain from economic contracts with India.
3) India can gain if it gets road access to Central Asia.
4) Both nations will have less violence, more peace means more tourism.
5) If we start complementing each other, we can influence world decisions. Instead of subtraction we will be doing addition.

Throw your ideas here

An invasion from these guys can unite

 

[third eye]

To my mind there is only one thing that can bring India & Pk closer.

Acceptance of ground realities & moving on. Nothing has changed over the last 62 yrs & nothing shall change over the next 62 yrs either.

We are doing immense damage to ourselves by not accepting the fact that neither will Pk held J&K come to India nor will the Indian side of J&K go anywhere. In any case J&K is a bogey raised for two reasons :

a) Control & access to water.
b) Perpetuate the hold of Military in PK polity.

 

[UnitedPak]

There are few steps that can bring both countires...
1. Kashmir issue. (But this will not end hating towards Indian because of Hindu Dominance)
2. China invading Pakistan. (Hypothetical Issue)
and last most important step would be
3. All hindus converted to Islam...(It will be the best step)

1. Pakistanis dont have anything against Hindus. See western countries with a South Asian population living and interacting peacefully.

2. come again, why would Kashmir stop mattering?

3. Another widely parroted myth serving to justify inaction.

 

[deep.ocean]

1. Pakistanis dont have anything against Hindus. See western countries with a South Asian population living and interacting peacefully.

They can live peacefully when they are forced to live.. History is the mirror before 1947 wr they not living peaefully?? What is the born identiy of Pakistan? If they are so peace loving then why we need Partition in name of Religion....

 

[IceCold]

In any case J&K is a bogey raised for two reasons :

b) Perpetuate the hold of Military in PK polity.

How convenient. Your third eye certainly came in handy.

 

[Meengla]

. Cut Pakistan off from an unnatural exclusive alliance with a communist China (how much really China helps Pakistan when even compared with the 'evil West' when it comes to economy?) and a far off West.In short, Mr. Zardari and Mr. Singh, tear down this wall!

The bolded part of my quote above caused some uber-patriots to come charging down on me. Be that is it may, here is some more I have say about it:
1) No where in my above post or in any other posts do I mention that Pakistan should not be China's friend or that there is an 'either them or that' kind of situation. I don't want Pakistan's alliance with China to be turned into some holy cows. That would be servile, supine, and cowardly. All entities in this world--both individuals and nations--act in their own selfish ways except, to some degrees, when there is a cultural/ethnic overlap (irrationality is also part of human nature).
2) I am sorry, I am unable to find Dr. Saleem's article. I did try Googling it. The title was something like 'Democracy, xxx miles from Islamabad.' Dr. Farrukh Saleem's article was published in The News of Pakistan (The News International - No. 1 English Newspaper from Pakistan - Tuesday, September 22, 2009) within last 2 years or so. In that Dr. Saleem points out that the current (or the then) condition of Pakistan's economy was so heavily dependent upon the West that Pakistan was in a hopeless situation begging for help from the allies like the Arabs or the Chinese--but without the required help from them. Why was that so? Dr. Saleem does not answer that and nor will I (I simply don't know the answer, honestly). But the point he tried to make was that let's us Pakistanis be practical about who is really helping Pakistan (even for their own 'capitalist market' reasons, as someone implies above).
3) It is disingenous to say that Western investment is high because of their market/greed while leaving behind why China--which invests TRILLIANS in Western economies--has so little investment in Pakistan.


Bottom line: Pakistan and India are more likely to be allied in the long term--just as France, Britain, Germany etc are now allied despite them having in involved in the most bloody wars in human history. We need to find a solution to Kashmir. I, as a Pakistani, honestly believe that Indian claim is of lesser morality. But I would still propose some kind of joint control--perhaps an Andorra solution--to move forward. We Indians and Pakistanis are very emotional people. But I'd like to believe that there is a fair amount of rational thought in both countries. As Jaswant Singh, the erstwhile right-winger from India, recently shows, India is not a monolithic country--and neither is Pakistan by a long shot-- and both Pakistan and India are better off for these reasons.

 

[nwmalik]

if the indian ministers would shut up regards what Pakistan needs to do to hafiz saeed etc.

 

[R.A.W.]

if the indian ministers would shut up regards what Pakistan needs to do to hafiz saeed etc.

DO it they will.....

 

[Developereo]

An invasion from these guys can unite

Nah, we'll just tease them by calling them lettucehead, until they die from embarrassment.