‘We back indigenisation, but Tejas didn’t fit the bill’

[Water Car Engineer]

Any program has to have an end product. So when are you inducting them in numbers? Irony is, the topic is about Tejas rejection by Indian Navy.

As for Pakistan and its Naval doctrine, we work on our own needs and threat perception. JF17s are not only inducted to guard our Sea frontiers but, as we speak, are deployed in maritime role. Jf17 armed with Sd10 and c802 can deal with threats from bigger nations, Indian issue is done and dusted.

View attachment 387308

It is getting inducted in numbers, it's second production line is built, do you know the IN funds 25% of that? The initial order is 120+. Matter a fact, IAF, the original user extended the order.

I am beyond confused why you're posting that thing as if that's what India is looking for?

India is looking for a AC operated fighter.

Mark 2 will not be ready for IAC 1.

 

[ranadd]

Any program has to have an end product. So when are you inducting them in numbers? Irony is, the topic is about Tejas rejection by Indian Navy.

As for Pakistan and its Naval doctrine, we work on our own needs and threat perception. JF17s are not only inducted to guard our Sea frontiers but, as we speak, are deployed in maritime role. Jf17 armed with Sd10 and c802 can deal with threats from bigger nations, Indian issue is done and dusted.

Well the thing is, India is counting that you deploy JF17.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I don't understand the concept of this program.why they are not accepting tejas? Why India is giving billions for French rafale and not using it's own fighter jet! This tejas have aesa and good avionics better long range missiles so what is the problem? Is there any hidden mechanical problem or is it too heavy? What is the reason of rejection? Someone should ask iaf what they want! Billions already spent in tejas program.I read somewhere that iaf only have 2 tejas.only 2 tejas? Someone should be held accountable. They wasted lots of money and no results! I know India is a massive economy but money should not be wasted.

The Tejas is considered underpowered for an aircraft carrier by IN, so it will
not be able to take off with enough payload external fuel.

View attachment 387263

Congrats, I didnt know Tejas attained VTOL capabilities.

So when did you eehmmm.. configured VTOL capabilities into Tejas?

If You removed your tin foil hat, you would notice my flag and realizing You are barking
up the wrong tree.
Have nothing to do with the development of Tejas and I doubt anyone in Sweden is involved.
You might also notice that he F-35C does not have any VTOL capability.

 

[Vertiti Scrutator]

I don't understand the concept of this program.why they are not accepting tejas? Why India is giving billions for French rafale and not using it's own fighter jet! This tejas have aesa and good avionics better long range missiles so what is the problem? Is there any hidden mechanical problem or is it too heavy? What is the reason of rejection? Someone should ask iaf what they want! Billions already spent in tejas program.I read somewhere that iaf only have 2 tejas.only 2 tejas? Someone should be held accountable. They wasted lots of money and no results! I know India is a massive economy but money should not be wasted.

123 Tejas will go into IAF. The issue is with the Navy....

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Well the thing is, India is counting that you deploy JF17.

Where were you all these years? Hiding under the rock? JFs are already in big numbers, even deploys on FOBs during recent Pak-Indo tensions.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

It is getting inducted in numbers, it's second production line is built, do you know the IN funds 25% of that? The initial order is 120+. Matter a fact, IAF, the original user extended the order.

I am beyond confused why you're posting that thing as if that's what India is looking for?

India is looking for a AC operated fighter.

Mark 2 will not be ready for IAC 1.

How many Tejas are in active service within your armed forces?

And please, do increase those numbers. India is counting on that.

A whole new squadron was raised just a month ago .

Where are you at with your Tejas induction?

Irony is, JFs have starred down your top line Su30s in recent flair up of hostilities. We are rubbing our hands when Tejas is actually deployed on your western front.

 

[ranadd]

How many Tejas are in active service within your armed forces?



A whole new squadron was raised just a month ago .

Where are you at with your Tejas induction?

Irony is, JFs have starred down your top line Su30s in recent flair up of hostilities. We are rubbing our hands when Tejas is actually deployed on your western front.

How many Tejas are in active service within your armed forces?

Dude. Pipe down with your stupidity.

Indian Air force is technologically and numerically bigger/superior than Pakistan Air Force any given day for the past 10 years. Our game is with China.

IAF field Light, Medium and Heavy aircraft.

Tejas is the Light category. To replace the ageing Mig 21.Tejas only have 4 aircrafts in its ONLY sqd. We don't have a sugar daddy with massive manufacturing capability to build us stuff quickly. JF competes here. Nowhere else.

Do let me know when this staring down happened. No, in your dreams or your ISPRs prophecies don't count.

Just because Pakistanis has a place to post should not mean you post stupid stuff and embarrass them.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Dude. Pipe down with your stupidity.

Indian Air force is technologically and numerically bigger/superior than Pakistan Air Force any given day for the past 10 years. Our game is with China.

IAF field Light, Medium and Heavy aircraft.

Tejas is the Light category. To replace the ageing Mig 21.Tejas only have 4 aircrafts in its ONLY sqd. We don't have a sugar daddy with massive manufacturing capability to build us stuff quickly. JF competes here. Nowhere else.

Do let me know when this staring down happened. No, in your dreams or your ISPRs prophecies don't count.

Just because Pakistanis has a place to post should not mean you post stupid stuff and embarrass them.

Kiddo, you being in bigger number never was and never will be in any equation as far as PAF is concerned, there are reasons why IAF has been given almighty spanking in all previous conflicts by PAF. As for you being in competition is China, that is utter garbage, you are third world country, how can you even comprehend such comparisons? Your decision makers however are not stupid like you, when they place 80-90% of your military resources on Pakistani border. Pakistan was and will be your nemesis. and for our part, we know how to put you in your place.

I agree you dont have sugardaddy, you got many sugardaddies, the yanks, Israelis even the Russians, so if you cant even put together a tin pot jet after all this support, something is seriously wrong within your country, and yes the bottom line is, the number 4. that is all you can show for last three decades.

As for putting your SUs in place, it happened during recent flair up when Modi had the itch within his lunge. And no, ISPR dont release such stuff, I happen to know these kind of things through my sources in PAF.

 

[ranadd]

Kiddo, you being in bigger number never was and never will be in any equation as far as PAF is concerned, there are reasons why IAF has been given almighty spanking in all previous conflicts by PAF. As for you being in competition is China, that is utter garbage, you are third world country, how can you even comprehend such comparisons? Your decision makers however are not stupid like you, when they place 80-90% of your military resources on Pakistani border. Pakistan was and will be your nemesis. and for our part, we know how to put you in your place.

I agree you dont have sugardaddy, you got many sugardaddies, the yanks, Israelis even the Russians, so if you cant even put together a tin pot jet after all this support, something is seriously wrong within your country, and yes the bottom line is, the number 4. that is all you can show for last three decades.

As for putting your SUs in place, it happened during recent flair up when Modi had the itch within his lunge. And no, ISPR dont release such stuff, I happen to know these kind of things through my sources in PAF.

My little buddy.

Name one engagement or conflict in which Pakistan ever won? Make sure you back it up with a non Indian or non Pakistani source. I mean those can get biased.

India is a third world country. No denying that. But still that leaves us with, what does that make Pakistan?

India has not placed 80-90% of resources in Pakistani border for sometime. And take a look at the map, there is something called Himalayas between India and China. But lets not talk about facts here. War is like a video game.

Pakistan is and will be India's enemy. And India will keep cutting it into halves.

Oh, so the staring down was in your dream. So, good fellow, this will be my last response to you. I understand you like to troll. But use some facts in trolling. Just BS means no fun.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

My little buddy.

Name one engagement or conflict in which Pakistan ever won? Make sure you back it up with a non Indian or non Pakistani source. I mean those can get biased.

India is a third world country. No denying that. But still that leaves us with, what does that make Pakistan?

India has not placed 80-90% of resources in Pakistani border for sometime. And take a look at the map, there is something called Himalayas between India and China. But lets not talk about facts here. War is like a video game.

Pakistan is and will be India's enemy. And India will keep cutting it into halves.

Oh, so the staring down was in your dream. So, good fellow, this will be my last response to you. I understand you like to troll. But use some facts in trolling. Just BS means no fun.

Sunshine, If we want talk about conflicts as a whole not just air to air combat then we can discuss this on some other forum as its a big subject. Coming back to air warfare, PAF has always dominated IAF, the killing ratio speaks for itself. Your homme, Chuck Yeager, said this about 1971 war, and I dont even want to mention as to what happened in 1965.

"The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a
three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets
and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I'm certain about the
figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and
counted the wrecks below."

I am glad your accepted you are a third world country. Most of your kind on this forum think of themselves as some sort of super power. But at same time, you want to compete with China, its like saying Pakistan is competing with America. Do you see the irony?

Again, you are full of contradiction, you want to be seen as in conflict with China but your military focus is entirely on Pakistan. Maybe expecting some brownie points with your western sugardaddies perhaps?

Check the map, there is a big chunk of land called Azad (liberated) Kashmir that we wrestled back from India. You are free to live in your delusion however.

You are free to believe whatever you like and live in lala land, I am just passing to you first hand info.

Don't mean to rain on your pride parade, but JF-17 is a very primitive plane and cannot be compared to Tejas (and definitely not to Eurofigther).

JF-17 does not even have a full fly-by-wire capability (has FBW in one of the three axes only!!!). The engine used (RD-93) doesn't have FADEC. The aircraft is essentially a 3rd or 3++ generation aircraft. Tejas is far more advanced. India has a lot of money to shop around - so Tejas sometimes may not sound as attractive as say Rafale etc to IAF.

Dont want to bulldozed your false bravado rather harshly, come back to me when this tin pot called Tejas actually start conducting CAPS over Pak-Indo border.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

How many Tejas are in active service within your armed forces?

There are 4, but the order is 123, again like I said, the second production line is coming up, with funding partly from IN.

Irony is, JFs have starred down your top line Su30s in recent flair up of hostilities. We are rubbing our hands when Tejas is actually deployed on your western front.

Great, stare down some additional Rafales, not to mention two aircraft carriers with an airwing of MIG29K, Rafale M/F18SH. Stare down the multiple SAM inductions, of which most are locally produced. And stare down the induction of more long range AWACS.

Your junk fighter is going to stretched thin on all flanks.

Kiddo, you being in bigger number never was and never will be in any equation as far as PAF is concerned, there are reasons why IAF has been given almighty spanking in all previous conflicts by PAF.

Trust me, your military planners aren't as retarded as you.

 

[ranadd]

There are 4, but the order is 123, again like I said, the second production line is coming up, with funding partly from IN.



Great, stare down some additional Rafales, not to mention two aircraft carriers with an airwing of MIG29K, Rafale M/F18SH. Stare down the multiple SAM inductions, of which most are locally produced. And stare down the induction of more long range AWACS.

Your junk fighter is going to stretched thin on all flanks.



Trust me, your military planners aren't as retarded as you.

Credit has to be given. Having been in PDF, I have respect for Pak military establishment now. They have blunders a lot, but God should be thanked that they do not consist of people like what we see here.

I think my head hurts reading these delusional rants.

 

[cerberus]

Sunshine, If we want talk about conflicts as a whole not just air to air combat then we can discuss this on some other forum as its a big subject. Coming back to air warfare, PAF has always dominated IAF, the killing ratio speaks for itself. Your homme, Chuck Yeager, said this about 1971 war, and I dont even want to mention as to what happened in 1965.

"The air war lasted two weeks and the Pakistanis scored a
three-to-one kill ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets
and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I'm certain about the
figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and
counted the wrecks below."

The paf deployed the F-6S mainly on defensive CAS missions over their own bases, but without the preferential Air superiority , the PAF was unable to conduct effective offensive operations and its attacks were largely ineffective.:107–108 The Indian Air Force's raids destroyed one USAFand one UN in Dacca while the Canada's RCAF DHC-4 Caribou was also destroyed in Islamabad alongside with the USAF's beech U-8 owned by the US MILITARY liaison chief CHUCK YEAGER .:Sporadic raids by the Indian air force continued against PAF forward air bases in Pakistan until the end of the war and interdiction and close-support operations were maintain

The PAF played a more limited part in the operations and were reinforced by F-104S from JORDAN, Mirages from an unidentified Middle Eastern ally (remains unknown) and by F-86s from Saudi Arabia.:

Their arrival helped camouflage the extent of PAF losses and the Libyan F-5S were reportedly deployed to SARGODHA AFB, perhaps as a potential training unit to prepare Pakistani pilots for an influx of more F-5s from Saudi Ara

The IAF was able to conduct a wide range of missions – troop support; air combat; deep penetration strikes; para-dropping behind enemy lines; feints to draw enemy fighters away from the actual target; bombing and reconnaissance.:107 The PAF, which was solely focused on air combat, was blown out of the subcontinent’s skies within the first week of the war. Those PAF aircraft that survived took refuge at Iranian air bases or in concrete bunkers, refusing to offer a fight.

India flew 1,978 sorties in the East and about 4,000 in Pakistan, while the PAF flew about 30 and 2,840 at both front. More than 80 percent of IAF sorties were close-support and interdiction and about 45 IAF aircraft were lost.
Source : Bowman, Martin (2016-01-30). Cold War Jet Combat: Air-to-Air Jet Fighter Operations 1950–1972. Pen and Sword. ISBN 9781473874633.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

There are 4, but the order is 123, again like I said, the second production line is coming up, with funding partly from IN.

4 after three decades of project time span. At what rate you are going to reach the magical number of 123? Maybe JFs will be in our museums in Pakistan by the time!

Great, stare down some additional Rafales, not to mention two aircraft carriers with an airwing of MIG29K, Rafale M/F18SH. Stare down the multiple SAM inductions, of which most are locally produced. And stare down the induction of more long range AWACS.

Your junk fighter is going to stretched thin on all flanks.

We will cross that bridge when your delusion somehow becomes a reality. For time being, we can only beat what is put front of us. Rest assure, JF block 3 is under construction while keeping in mind all future threats to Pakistan, not just from India.

Trust me, your military planners aren't as retarded as you.

Military planners, plan for the future. I am talking about the past aerial warfare history between Pakistan and India.

The paf deployed the F-6S mainly on defensive CAS missions over their own bases, but without the preferential Air superiority , the PAF was unable to conduct effective offensive operations and its attacks were largely ineffective.:107–108 The Indian Air Force's raids destroyed one USAFand one UN in Dacca while the Canada's RCAF DHC-4 Caribou was also destroyed in Islamabad alongside with the USAF's beech U-8 owned by the US MILITARY liaison chief CHUCK YEAGER .:Sporadic raids by the Indian air force continued against PAF forward air bases in Pakistan until the end of the war and interdiction and close-support operations were maintain

The PAF played a more limited part in the operations and were reinforced by F-104S from JORDAN, Mirages from an unidentified Middle Eastern ally (remains unknown) and by F-86s from Saudi Arabia.:

Their arrival helped camouflage the extent of PAF losses and the Libyan F-5S were reportedly deployed to SARGODHA AFB, perhaps as a potential training unit to prepare Pakistani pilots for an influx of more F-5s from Saudi Ara

The IAF was able to conduct a wide range of missions – troop support; air combat; deep penetration strikes; para-dropping behind enemy lines; feints to draw enemy fighters away from the actual target; bombing and reconnaissance.:107 The PAF, which was solely focused on air combat, was blown out of the subcontinent’s skies within the first week of the war. Those PAF aircraft that survived took refuge at Iranian air bases or in concrete bunkers, refusing to offer a fight.

India flew 1,978 sorties in the East and about 4,000 in Pakistan, while the PAF flew about 30 and 2,840 at both front. More than 80 percent of IAF sorties were close-support and interdiction and about 45 IAF aircraft were lost.
Source : Bowman, Martin (2016-01-30). Cold War Jet Combat: Air-to-Air Jet Fighter Operations 1950–1972. Pen and Sword. ISBN 9781473874633.

Tell me retard, how and when this 3 to 1 kill ration was maintained by PAF over IAF if PAF was "blown out of sky". Do you know how IAF was raped in 1965 war?

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Military planners, plan for the future. I am talking about the past aerial warfare history between Pakistan and India.

Great, India split Pakistan in half, took 90,000 of your men as POW, completely irrelevant to now and the future.

4 after three decades of project time span. At what rate you are going to reach the magical number of 123? Maybe JFs will be in our museums in Pakistan by the time!

3 decades is the forming of ADA. Like I said, the second production is coming online. There is 1 in place, another smaller assembly line. I dont know why you're under estimating HAL, because they've delivered a hell of a lot more helicopters, fighters, trainers, than your PAC.

Not to mention, LCA's modules are being outsourced to private firms, L&T, Alpha, VEM tech.

We will cross that bridge when your delusion somehow becomes a reality. For time being, we can only beat what is put front of us. Rest assure, JF block 3 is under construction while keeping in mind all future threats to Pakistan, not just from India.

What's in place is already fine for PAF, but know this, every single MIG 21/27 will be replaced by a 4th, 4th+ gen fighter, by Griphen/F16IN, Super MKI, Rafale, Tejas, etc. If you think PAF isnt looking carefully at that you're delusional. Not to mention 2 aircraft carrier airwing right in your flank, join by it's carrier group.