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Watch banned film "India's daughter" here!

I don't see why not. I've seen some equally gut-wrenching documentaries made by NDTV about social issues in India (they produce many a year) with no issue at all.

Apart from the fact that it was banned because it's against the prestige of the country, not against laws, did you see what happend with the woman that filed a case against those rapist in the whatsapp video? The same day that came up, she was threatened and her car was smached. But that's not even surprising in India, where journalists that writes stories against parties or religious groups are in danger anyway, but what's more disturbing is the increased limitation of rights, even if you don't act against the law. FB posts get deleted, because people express their views, visas terminated, Indians that voice protest are restricted in the movements and look at the bans of movies the increased censoring and bans now this ban of the docu. If an Indian female journalists would had done this docu, she would not only be stopped by the government, but also would have to face threats to her life and of her families.
We even see the same with the rape victims, that gets outcast of the society and even their families, because the shame of having even remote relation to her, can make your life difficult in one or the other way.

In this case a foreign journalist working for a foreign media outlet has used underhand means to produce such a documentary and this is all I am raising objection to.

What do you mean by that?
 
just shame on india...utter shame.

what would take people to finally start punishing rapists and pedo.. ?
 
What rule of law? Did u notice, in the end Mukesh and his lawyer says, 1st convict other accused. 1st convict the MPs in parliament who are accused of Rape, Murder.

Now temme, if govt makes it open, wont the crowd come back on streets asking for conviction of all MPs as promised by BJP before elections?

All such things are obvious.

It is their right to say that. The Law permits them that right. What is the problem here ?

BJP has already asked the states to fast track the MP and MLA cases, so they are sticking to their promise.

States told to fast-track cases against MPs, MLAs | Business Line

Can’t fast-track only MPs’ cases, speed up system: Supreme Court | The Indian Express
 
Just by that crap which you typed above, you claim that India embraces a 19th century mentality of the west. Perhaps to you but certainly not to me and those Indians who associate with me. Stick with your caveman mentality. Hopefully the rest of Indians will strive for a better benchmark. Good luck to you :D

If would have been nice if you had learned how to read, better still if you had learned to understand what you had read.

Any Indian who thinks Hindu Value systems belong in a "cave" need to be urgently liberated from his "secular western" slavery. Your time will come. All the best to you too.

just shame on india...utter shame.

what would take people to finally start punishing rapists and pedo.. ?

Ya, we are planning on collectively killing ourself so that you can feel better. :coffee:
 
Apart from the fact that it was banned because it's against the prestige of the country, not against laws, did you see what happend with the woman that filed a case against those rapist in the whatsapp video? The same day that came up, she was threatened and her car was smached. But that's not even surprising in India, where journalists that writes stories against parties or religious groups are in danger anyway, but what's more disturbing is the increased limitation of rights, even if you don't act against the law. FB posts get deleted, because people express their views, visas terminated, Indians that voice protest are restricted in the movements and look at the bans of movies the increased censoring and bans now this ban of the docu. If an Indian female journalists would had done this docu, she would not only be stopped by the government, but also would have to face threats to her life and of her families.
We even see the same with the rape victims, that gets outcast of the society and even their families, because the shame of having even remote relation to her, can make your life difficult in one or the other way.



You know if you see the documentary, the guys who really get to you are the lawyers. They are the ones making the worst kind of statements. Maybe the government & the bar council should take up that issue (the bar council has had 2 years to do it), instead they would like to ban a film where these scumbags air their opinions. Talk about wrong priorities.......
 
It is their right to say that. The Law permits them that right. What is the problem here ?

BJP has already asked the states to fast track the MP and MLA cases, so they are sticking to their promise.

States told to fast-track cases against MPs, MLAs | Business Line

Can’t fast-track only MPs’ cases, speed up system: Supreme Court | The Indian Express
So where is the way out? SC says speed up the system. Wht is govt doing in it? Can we see any increase in courts of judges to speed up the system? Can we see clear segregation of types of crimes which automatically goes into fast track?
 
So where is the way out? SC says speed up the system. Wht is govt doing in it? Can we see any increase in courts of judges to speed up the system? Can we see clear segregation of types of crimes which automatically goes into fast track?

Supreme court is partially responsible for this mess.

They want Judicial independence and Judicial power, but no Judicial responsibility. They want to push the Responsibility to the Executive.

It is the Judiciary which has failed the people of India, not the Legislature.

What the hell can Modi do ?

It is for the Judges to speed up the system. Allocate fixed time and clear the cases in those time. Indian SC is the worst in the world. US SC court provides 15 minutes for each lawyer to make their point and a ruling is then made. In India the cases in the SC goes on for ever.

Setting up fast track court is the state government responsibility.

The only solution is to make some laws that will kick some Judicial @ss.
 
I know. Their lawyers have probably told them to ignore. Poor drafting of conditions, probably won't hold up in an appellate court.

Or the government is just trying to fake the issue, I have seen an NDTV interview with the author of the docu and she stated that she showed the unedited footage in oct. 2013 to the authorities over 2 days, she even had documents of the authorities that they viewed the footage and was able to show it to the interviewer. Looks more like a desperate move of the government to get any reason to ban the movie, which already turns out to be a major failure, since they made it only more interesting to the public than it was before. Not to mention that they embarrass themselfs by saying they will not allow that it will be shown in other countries, as if they have any reasonable point even to approach foreign governments on that.
It's the same nonsense as they restricted that green peace activist to go to a conference in the UK for no valid reason, which also blasted up in the governments face, when she simply held her speech over skype. She got more attention for her cause because if that move by the government, than she could had hoped for before.
We have seen such moves of restricting freedom of speech or movement only from China in the past, now it seems that India is heading in a similar direction. :tsk:
 
Idiot it is still all over you tube and google.

Come back when you get this link removed

BBC iPlayer - Storyville - 2014-2015: 19. India's Daughter

Thanks to the stupid Govt. reaction its the most downloaded video in the world

Supreme court is partially responsible for this mess.

They want Judicial independence and Judicial power, but no Judicial responsibility. They want to push the Responsibility to the Executive.

It is the Judiciary which has failed the people of India, not the Legislature.

What the hell can Modi do ?

It is for the Judges to speed up the system. Allocate fixed time and clear the cases in those time. Indian SC is the worst in the world. US SC court provides 15 minutes for each lawyer to make their point and a ruling is then made. In India the cases in the SC goes on for ever.

Setting up fast track court is the state government responsibility.

The only solution is to make some laws that will kick some Judicial @ss.

When you have lawyers stating on camera that if my daughter went out with her boyfriend I would take her to my farmhouse and burn her how good can the Judges be?
 
The documentary had its flaws of course (bias,a clear agenda, and sensationalist tendencies) but the overall message needed to be put out there.

Like I said, it would have been better for this to have been an indian documentary. With it being a BBC documentary The perception is that india isn't addressing its own social issues and needs the foreign media to point out the flaws for India which is entirely demeaning and patronising to say the least.
The whole issue according to me is the timing and the motive of the documentary ,just when the government is cracking down on NGO's, evangalist ,women's organizations bringing in unaccounted money from the west.
The treasuries of these organizations are drying up and a documentary like this is the need of the hour and BBC gave it to them.
We know better than any english channel to deal with rape issues, if fact we are doing better than their countires and we can do better without their help or pseudo feminists help.
While I was extremely saddened to see the family's plight it did not add anything new to my existing perception of rape.Also why are the poor conditions in India shown when a mere mention of poverty could suffice to justify the case.Why not show an interview of terrorists?? "it disturbs the society". Why cant the same logic applied here.
 
Or the government is just trying to fake the issue, I have seen an NDTV interview with the author of the docu and she stated that she showed the unedited footage in oct. 2013 to the authorities over 2 days, she even had documents of the authorities that they viewed the footage and was able to show it to the interviewer. Looks more like a desperate move of the government to get any reason to ban the movie, which already turns out to be a major failure, since they made it only more interesting to the public than it was before. Not to mention that they embarrass themselfs by saying they will not allow that it will be shown in other countries, as if they have any reasonable point even to approach foreign governments on that.
It's the same nonsense as they restricted that green peace activist to go to a conference in the UK for no valid reason, which also blasted up in the governments face, when she simply held her speech over skype. She got more attention for her cause because if that move by the government, than she could had hoped for before.
We have seen such moves of restricting freedom of speech or movement only from China in the past, now it seems that India is heading in a similar direction. :tsk:

China seems to be doing better than India at ALL counts. Funny how that worked out.
 
So where is the way out? SC says speed up the system. Wht is govt doing in it? Can we see any increase in courts of judges to speed up the system? Can we see clear segregation of types of crimes which automatically goes into fast track?

Lower courts passed judgments on this care relatively quickly, the case has been stuck in SC for a year. You should be asking them first.
 
When you have lawyers stating on camera that if my daughter went out with her boyfriend I would take her to my farmhouse and burn her how good can the Judges be?

Theoretically the Judge is supposed to go by rational and Logic. :P ............ and making rulings as per the Law.

But in India, Allah malik.
 
The government's attempts to restrain the BBC from airing a documentary on rape, built around the story of the December 2012 Delhi gangrape victim (a.k.a. Nirbhaya), are pointless. It has effectively given BBC the opportunity to get higher viewership for their film, titled "India's Daughter", whose selling point is obviously the misogynist statements of the rapists who were interviewed for it.

The government’s response allows the BBC to adopt a high moral tone on how it is holding a mirror to Indian men's mindsets. Its tone is superior and nauseating: “This harrowing documentary, made with the full support and cooperation of the victim’s parents, provides a revealing insight into the horrific crime that sent shock waves around the world and led to protests across India demanding changes in attitudes towards women.”

As Indians, we should certainly not fight shy of acknowledging our own failings as a society, much less ban such films. The restraint order by a Delhi court on the screening of the film, however valid legally, demonstrates the impotence of the Indian state, and its inability to uphold its own laws, despite legislating so many of them.

The reason why the BBC documentary offends us is not its essential truth, but the ignominy of an outsider pointing it out to us. I am sure enough Muslims in India would be equally offended if we made a documentary showing how Indian Islam treated its women. The outsider's critiques are always unpalatable.

At another level, the documentary also illustrates the inability of the Indian state, and its ruling elite, to understand the workings of global power manipulations using money, media and the technology of power and influence to undermine us. The western world knows how to use India's own umpteen faultlines – of caste, gender and economic inequities - to undermine the emergence of a strong state which can implement the rule of law fearlessly. The west does not want a strong state to develop in India or else its own geopolitical agenda cannot be pursued.

Before one discusses these points, let me make my stand clear on two counts: I am against any kind of ban on media documentaries or artistic work, whatever the motives of its authors or their financial backers. Also, I hold no brief whatsoever for “sick male mindsets” that are a product of centuries of misogyny and patriarchy. Our first job as a society is to speed up the process of ending patriarchy and making boys and men develop genuine respect for women on the basis of equality and shared partnership for the benefit of society.

But we also need to understand how power equations work globally, and if we do not understand this, we are forever going to be pushed around on the basis of foreign agendas masquerading as concern for human rights. Indians often do not understand when we are fighting injustices in our own society and when we may be furthering someone else's covert agenda to undermine us.

Take the rule of law and how little we understand it. We should also understand how it will be used against us to show up our weaknesses, while the west will commit the same crimes under the veneer of their rule of law.

Here’s one illustration: Fake encounters to eliminate troublesome criminals or terrorists are illegal both in the Indian and US context. In India, fake encounters are the result of a weak state, where the police resort to it to overcome the failings of a corrupt and slow legal system and inadequate resources to gather evidence against criminals and terrorists. Whether it is Punjab, Gujarat or UP, fake encounters have been the short-cuts used to eliminate people against whom we can’t find enough legal evidence to arrest and convict.

The west will use this endlessly against us, helped, in turn, by human rights activists here. But do we know that the US directs many such extra-legal assassinations? Do we know that President Obama has himself signed scores of death warrants of people he thinks are terrorists, including American citizens? He has converted the CIA, a spy agency, into an assassination squad, which uses snipers and drones to kill enemies of the US state (read here).

The difference is this: while we will call our killings fake encounters, the US assassinations will be couched in legalities and presidential findings. This is what I call the effective use of the technology of power, where a patently illegal act can be sanctified by using verbal and technological techniques to paint it differently in India and the US.

Take another example. The Indian media and its western counterparts have talked endlessly about the Sangh’s “ghar wapsi” programme – making us cringe with shame. But what is ghar wapsi? A religious reconversion programme that’s been badly handled in front of the media. Can a liberal state ban ghar wapsi when it cannot ban religious propaganda or conversions away from Hinduism? The media painted ghar wapsi” as some kind of unmitigated evil, but did not produce one documentary on what the evangelical organisations are upto? Did the BBC produce one programme showing the “missionary mindset” and the harm it is doing to societal cohesion in India?

Once again, what is apparent is that the west knows how to use media and technology to pursue its own agendas, overt or covert. But we are unable to separate the issues in our own minds. We are poor players in the technology of power, media management and soft influence.

Now, let’s come to the BBC documentary. Consider how the author protects her own country’s laws, but how we are unable to protect ours.

First, we give a foreign reporter access to rapists - an access we would not give to our own journalists. What does this say about our kowtowing to gora skin? We will subvert our own laws to curry favour with them.

Second, the journalist involved, Leslee Udwin, gets signed consent letters from the rapists before filming their statements on rape. This shows that Udwin knows she has to respect the laws under which the BBC operates. But did she show equal concern for Indian laws beyond obtaining permissions from the home ministry? Did our own government get her to sign a legally valid statement specifying what she can do or cannot do with the interview. There may be a general letter somewhere intended to protect a babu’s backside, but it will probably be legally unenforceable against the BBC.

The facts are that Udwin sought the home ministry's permission to interview the convicts and understand their psyche. The Times of India says Udwin promised to use the footage solely for "social purposes" and give the footage to the authorities for vetting. Apparently only the edited version was shown. But the "social purpose" documentary was then sold to the Beeb. How come the babus in the home ministry did not understand that practically anything can be done in the name of “social purpose.”

The question is: When Udwin did everything to follow the law back home in the UK, why did our home ministry not do anything to protect our laws and the rights of the convicts interviewed, when the appeal process is far from over? Such damaging releases of convicts' statements can work against their appeal, still pending in the Supreme Court, as the judiciary will now feel compelled to uphold the death sentence on these "sick minds". Would the legal system in the US or UK have allowed such a prejudicial airing of a convict's views before a verdict? Would defence lawyers not be screaming mistrial and attempts to bias the judge or jury? But we happily do this without regard to the law.

The Times of India quotes feminist lawyer Indira Jaising as claiming that the broadcast of the film “would amount to violation of Article 19(2) of the Constitution, Section 153A of IPC and Section 2(c) of the Contempt of Courts Act, 1971. ‘At present, the defendant's appeal against conviction and death sentence is pending before the Supreme Court, therefore, airing the documentary would amount to gross contempt of Court,’” Jaising wrote to NDTV, which aired promos of the documentary containing the rapist’s statements.

Did the Indian home ministry not know the law before giving Udwin the right to interview convicted rapists? Now, by ham-handedly trying to prevent the BBC from airing it, it will even be accused of trying to curb freedom of speech, and shielding society from the plain unvarnished truth of “men with misogynist mindsets.” Two self-goals in one.

Udwin's interview to the Hindustan Times shows how well the foreign media establishment will use our own follies against us. Asked why she called the film "India's Daughter" when the title itself sounds patriarchal, she says: "Yes, but the victim was called India's Daughter by the press here and we are not allowed to name her in India."

Fair enough. But the media in India did not call Nirbhaya “India's Daughter" for the reason she cites. We called her India's Daughter because the idea evokes a strong cultural sense of protectiveness towards daughters in society, even though in actual practice we don't protect our vulnerable girls and women. When played abroad, India's Daughter will sound like an indictment of India and our society. The meaning of the title is subtly different in the Indian and western context. The west will use such documentaries to put us on the backfoot, questioning our intentions and undermining our national resolve to grow our defence or global clout, saying what spending money to protect your daughters.

Udwin also says that her efforts are unquestionable because "I am a rape victim myself." The assumption that a victim is best-placed to tell an objective story is questionable. Her own sense of anger might well have made her biased, but we can't say this without watching the film.

The BBC also says the film was done with the permission of Nirbhaya’s parents? Once again, such permissions mean little. Why would parents seeking justice for their child’s rape and murder not use any forum to air their views? How are they likely to know how the BBC will use the documentary? The BBC is a product of colonial attitude and funded by the British taxpayer. It loyalties will be to its audience, not India’s interests.

And is the problem our unwillingness to face “male mindsets” or something else? Do we not know what male mindsets are in India? Did we not create an entire commission under Justice JS Verma to look at gender justice? We even legislated a tough law that includes hanging for particularly vicious rape cases. (Read the Verma report here)

One reason why we have not acted against injustice as strongly as we should is the weak state, where the state finds it impossible to implement its own laws, given the pushes and pulls of a society with multiple senses of injustice. A simple law to prescribe reservations for women in parliament is held hostage to OBC and Dalit concerns over their own dis-empowerment – attempts to tackle one injustice comes up with another group’s sense of injustice.

Politicians use these fault-lines to avoid implementing something that can only have an beneficial impact over the very long term. A society split on caste or religious lines is unable to differentiate between action against criminals and actions against “our people, our caste, our religious group.” This is why a Lalu Prasad and J Jayalalithaa or Jagan Reddy, two of them convicted for corruption, continue to win elections.


Things like sex education, gender sensitisation and cleaning up the justice system are long-term solutions with no immediate political gains to anybody. Effective policing and sensitive handling of rape and sexual harassment cases may possibly be the only actions that can have visible results in the short term. But in all the anger over “male mindsets”, the inability of a weak state to take long-term corrective action is not seen as central to the issue of gender justice.

The real danger in all this breast-beating over “male mindsets” is the long-term inability of the state and society to do anything about injustice. It is only a strong state (which is different from an authoritarian state) that can apply the rule of law and make things work. This needs a state to protect human rights, and not specific community rights, whether based on caste or gender or religion.

In the UK, for years teen girls in Rotherham were subjected to sexual abuse by Pakistani Muslim gangs, but the British police failed to act for fear of being branded “racist.” In other words, even in a society where the rule of law supposedly operates, the law could not prevent injustices to women and vulnerable girls.

The lessons we should draw from the BBC’s documentary on India’s Daughter is simple: one, we have develop a thick skin to their media machinations; two, we should focus on what we have to do to correct the injustices in our system and not be distracted by western moralising; and three, we have to develop our own sophisticated systems of giving it back to them in their own coin by developing long-term studies and capabilities to show up the west’s own hypocrisies.

Right now, they can hold a mirror to us, but we cannot do the same to them. They thus have moral power over us. We have not mastered the technology of power and media to achieve a balance.
 
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