Vipers are not coming??

[airmarshal]

They are still ready to sell them in fact at a little lower price but problem is they are demanding something else in return which we won't give

Like what were they asking in return?

 

[jhungary]

True, I was trying to paint an optimistic picture.

Actually, this tender suggested the PAA AH-1Z is indeed overseas, as I said before, the 3 AH-1Z is shipped off, and I believe it is somewhere inside Pakistan, and this tender actually supported my theory.

Why?

1.) This is a new preservation tender, which mean if the viper is made (which is a fact) and still have not been delivered or is in hold off since 2017, it should ALREADY be in preservation, they don't push a new tender out if the objective (preserve these viper) is ongoing. A new tender suggested these aircraft were in used before and now (as of June 28) is no longer in use, and is destined to be stored for 3 months.

2.) If the PAA Viper is still in US, DoD would not issue a tender for preservation because both Bell/Textron and USAF have their own preservation program, USAF boneyard in Davis-Monthan AFB and Bell/Textron have their own preservation warehouse in Texas, if the plane fall under either jurisdiction, they can preserve it themselves and not issuing a new tender for it, I mean why bother issuing a tender if you are going to put it in Arizona boneyard anyway, they will, however, send PAA the bill.

New tender contract means the aircraft is outside US service area, and most probably not under US jurisdiction, which mean they are either somewhere close to Pakistan and in Pakistan control, or they are in Pakistan and under Pakistan control.

Beside, the contract slated to end the preservation end in September/October, which is roughly my source said the remaining of Viper is due to deliver to Pakistan.

 

[chauvunist]

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me !!

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We need to ban Pakistani Military persons getting medals from oversea it clouds the judgement when ordering foreign orders

Chasing crappy F16 and then humiliating cancellation
Now this Super cobra carrot

 

[Dalit]

We will wait for the official word, but if they don't come I would be least surprised.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Only total retards get kicked in their nuts twice...............Congrats to Pakistani Military high ups............when you kiss arse, you get shit

Did you miss the part where the AH1Z's were being paid for by FMF funds?

I raised this point a few months ago that the AH-1Z deal has gone south mainly because of financial matters under FMF and Pakistan Army refusal to buy them under a loan or from own funds. Chickens have come home to roost now

I would argue that the Pakistan Army was wise to not commit Pakistani funds for the AH-1Z's, especially given the temperamental inconsistent nature of the Trump Administration. The US is going to use all possible leverage to pressure Pakistan (bullying the FATF being a case in point).

 

[MIRauf]

Don't mean to sound too rude, as post above has already stated that the AH-1Z were paid by FMF, in other words tax payers like poster above, me and others in the US.

Please note: The AH-1Z were not paid by the NON-TAX Payers or the good folks that paid taxes in Pakistan, so there will not be any wheat, soybeans, or other commodity in lieu of AH-1Z.

This doesn't mean that AH-1Z will not be delivered or will be delivered since no official word has come out of the State Department and or the Pentagon, until such time is just hear say at the best.

 

[waz]

Actually, this tender suggested the PAA AH-1Z is indeed overseas, as I said before, the 3 AH-1Z is shipped off, and I believe it is somewhere inside Pakistan, and this tender actually supported my theory.

Why?

1.) This is a new preservation tender, which mean if the viper is made (which is a fact) and still have not been delivered or is in hold off since 2017, it should ALREADY be in preservation, they don't push a new tender out if the objective (preserve these viper) is ongoing. A new tender suggested these aircraft were in used before and now (as of June 28) is no longer in use, and is destined to be stored for 3 months.

2.) If the PAA Viper is still in US, DoD would not issue a tender for preservation because both Bell/Textron and USAF have their own preservation program, USAF boneyard in Davis-Monthan AFB and Bell/Textron have their own preservation warehouse in Texas, if the plane fall under either jurisdiction, they can preserve it themselves and not issuing a new tender for it, I mean why bother issuing a tender if you are going to put it in Arizona boneyard anyway, they will, however, send PAA the bill.

New tender contract means the aircraft is outside US service area, and most probably not under US jurisdiction, which mean they are either somewhere close to Pakistan and in Pakistan control, or they are in Pakistan and under Pakistan control.

Beside, the contract slated to end the preservation end in September/October, which is roughly my source said the remaining of Viper is due to deliver to Pakistan.

Thanks mate for the clarity.

US Gov is all about announcements. There is no announcement on the aircraft being withheld. The export license is valid, and FMF is from yesteryear and paid for already. This speculation stems from temporary storage solicitation on the web. The storage could be for one of many reasons, one being unavailability of transport aircraft for airlift to Pakistan. Such things happen in this business, and there should be no reason for alarm.

If or when the US decides to hold the aircraft, already paid for and under current export regime, they would make an announcement. It usually takes an all outright arms embargo for such announcements. This should clarify the situation to most readers.

In my opinion, as carrot and stick goes, this is business as usual and Pakistan and USA wrangle in the Afghan issue, give and take favours, and position themselves for the fallout.



Pakistan is not willing to go Direct Commercial Contract (DCS) or National Funds for the US purchases, as they want the US government to pay for it (FMF) or buy at USG rate (FMS). This is where the anti-Pakistan lobby in US Congress has effectively put a stop to this affair. Till the next engagement of USG Afghanistan, we have to sit tight and wait for the coffers to open again for the "friends" to become friendly again.

Thank you for this Bilal, and I did think the same thing i.e. there has been no announcement and the storage solicitation could be happening due to a variety of reasons, some of which you touched upon. @jhungary went into more detail which affirms what you are writing.

 

[Pakistansdefender]

I just want to say :
' I TOLD YOU SO'.

 

[Dalit]

One thing has been proven time and time again. The US is a highly unreliable supplier for Pakistan. It is a good thing this aqcuistion came from the FMF. Otherwise the damage would have been severe.

Let's wait and see what happens next.

 

[Evora]

There is not a single statement we come across which shows that vipers delivery is on hold not even mentioned officialy like that as in the case of F16. Our relation with USA are not as dead as it was in the past. We are still cooperating on so many forums and issues. USA needs Pakistan more than we need them. I dont think they can go that far.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Actually, this tender suggested the PAA AH-1Z is indeed overseas, as I said before, the 3 AH-1Z is shipped off, and I believe it is somewhere inside Pakistan, and this tender actually supported my theory.

Why?

1.) This is a new preservation tender, which mean if the viper is made (which is a fact) and still have not been delivered or is in hold off since 2017, it should ALREADY be in preservation, they don't push a new tender out if the objective (preserve these viper) is ongoing. A new tender suggested these aircraft were in used before and now (as of June 28) is no longer in use, and is destined to be stored for 3 months.

2.) If the PAA Viper is still in US, DoD would not issue a tender for preservation because both Bell/Textron and USAF have their own preservation program, USAF boneyard in Davis-Monthan AFB and Bell/Textron have their own preservation warehouse in Texas, if the plane fall under either jurisdiction, they can preserve it themselves and not issuing a new tender for it, I mean why bother issuing a tender if you are going to put it in Arizona boneyard anyway, they will, however, send PAA the bill.

New tender contract means the aircraft is outside US service area, and most probably not under US jurisdiction, which mean they are either somewhere close to Pakistan and in Pakistan control, or they are in Pakistan and under Pakistan control.

Beside, the contract slated to end the preservation end in September/October, which is roughly my source said the remaining of Viper is due to deliver to Pakistan.

Your post gives me hope .. thanks a lot for the clear cut response .

 

[Ultima Thule]

Like what were they asking in return?

Do more @airmarshal

 

[Falcon26]

There is not a single statement we come across which shows that vipers delivery is on hold not even mentioned officialy like that as in the case of F16. Our relation with USA are not as dead as it was in the past. We are still cooperating on so many forums and issues. USA needs Pakistan more than we need them. I dont think they can go that far.

For years no one knew the Jordan F-16s weren’t coming until your FM randomly stated it during a talk session in the US few months back.

 

[gangsta_rap]

GHQ is still stuck in the cold war mindset