Vipers are not coming??

[Cookie Monster]

Eid Mubabrak to you as well. At the moment direct embargo is not in US favour due to their continues entanglement in Afghanistan. Indirectly certain restraints have been applied. To be honest the same restraints will be faced against any other EU Provider. So we either buy what we can while developing resources from other avenues and making ourselves independant. Other option is sticking with China where the products are not matured. You have seen the latency between interest and signing of contract. Ot still signifies a reasonable assessment that in case of US/EU embargo Turkey will be able to continue to supply us. The other aspect is to have more comprehensive spares storage facilities in house ideally with limited local production of spares.
A

At the moment direct embargo isn't in favor for two reasons...
1) Pakistan is still useful(though not as much as it was during the Cold War era in comparison to India)
2) Sales mean money...defence equipment sales mean money and influence. So it's a no brainer that they are gonna sell to Pak

However I'm not taking about an embargo at the moment. I'm saying that there's a chance of such a thing during a war with India. Therefore I'm highly in favor of T129 bcuz of a way lesser chance of an embargo type situation during war. Secondly with T129 there's local production involved(to what degree I'm not sure)...but I assume the bigger Pak's order and the more money involved would play a big part in the extent of ToT and local production...so that's even more of a reason to have picked T129 over AH1Z.

The point I'm trying to make is that there are definitely pros and cons for going with either AH1Z or T129...but I personally would have picked T129 over AH1Z taking into account the current geopolitical standing/relations of Pak/US vs Pak/Turkey. It could very well be that PA knows something I don't and their choice of AH1Z was indeed a wiser a choice...I'm just expressing a personal opinion of mine.

 

[waz]

So, it's you say the deal is on hold, then the deal is on hold? And no, you are right and not the security clearance holding Textron employee and not an USAF officer who hold security clearance that is even higher than me and hold briefing to the United States president (I already have the third highest in the chain with TS/SCI)?

And you still not answer any of the point I made.

I am done here.

Best to ignore my friend, he obviously hasn't got a clue about your experience or contacts. He believes in conspiracy theories.

 

[mosu]

Is this confirmed?

 

[ADIL SHERDIL]

It was bound to happen. Don't blame it on military where was our foreign minister yeah I remember we didn't had one for last 4 year and so. If we had some one lobbying there we wouldn't have to face this disgrace. Don't just blame generals tbh American stuff is very good that's the reason y we tend to procure tested platforms

 

[BHarwana]

I think Viper are not coming there is a story saying Viper are under US embargo

Source is below.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1008346411417600000

https://twitter.com/x/status/1007080379365421056

I think this is a big mistake for USA we might make our own Attack helicopter just like when they blocked F-16 we got JF-17.

Can any member confirm this story?

 

[jhungary]

I think Viper are not coming there is a story saying Viper are under US embargo

Source is below.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1008346411417600000

https://twitter.com/x/status/1007080379365421056

I think this is a big mistake for USA we might make our own Attack helicopter just like when they blocked F-16 we got JF-17.

Can any member confirm this story?

All I know is this.

Textron assembly plants is NOT in Fort Worth TX, their plant is in Amarillo Texas, 550 km away.....The only thing between Bell/Textron is located in Fort Worth is Bell Headquarter. Which is located 3255 Bell Helicopter Blvd, Fort Worth, TX 76118...

Unless you are telling me bell build their chopper in the parking lot at the above address, there aren't anything they own in FW can build the viper.

I wouldn't take what he said seriously to begin with, seeing how he spelled embargo wrong...

 

[Falcon26]

Don’t you guys have media that can ask your foreign ministry to confirm such stories?

 

[araz]

Don’t you guys have media that can ask your foreign ministry to confirm such stories?

Media of an illeiterate state where whispers on the net are taken as gospel truth will only cause more problems. Believe me they do not know the current situation. If given half a chance, they will simply spew venom. We need to wait for the next 6 months to see whether they are arriving or not. There is no current embargo placed on Pakistan and they are needed for our war on Terror which would be a justifiable reason to send them from the US perspective. Just lets wait and see. Either case they are a bonus if they come and if they dont come, nothing will be lost.
Regards

 

[waz]

I think Viper are not coming there is a story saying Viper are under US embargo

Source is below.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1008346411417600000

https://twitter.com/x/status/1007080379365421056

I think this is a big mistake for USA we might make our own Attack helicopter just like when they blocked F-16 we got JF-17.

Can any member confirm this story?

These are twitter feeds, the second being Indian lol ! Anyone can write anything.
Let's wait.

 

[BHarwana]

These are twitter feeds, the second being Indian lol ! Anyone can write anything.
Let's wait

Agree the Journalist who tweeted has not given any source for this info so it is not reliable.

 

[TOPGUN]

They will come watch and see !!

 

[jhungary]

Just to clarify, in case someone else tag me on any sort of news that Viper is held off by the American.

I am not going to pretend I am expert in military hardware acquisition in this part of the world, I am telling you right now, I AM NOT.... What I said here is what I think is logical based on what people told me.

For most part, US does not have a reason to withhold the Viper, the political atmosphere have not much changed since 2016 when Pakistan sign that deal. Which mean there are nothing American could "punish" Pakistan for. There aren't any major terrorist attack in the US that can trace back to Pakistan or any relationship toward Pakistan since 2016, which mean there are no reason to withhold these helicopter to begin with.

Human right issue are more or less the same for Pakistan in 2016 and 2018, which mean if human right is an issue, US would not considering selling those viper to Pakistan back in 2016 to begin with.

As for political blackmail, either by staying in US camp or for Afghanistan issue, you need to ask yourself, isn't it more efficient if Pakistan have those chopper and US withhold those part that those chopper sorely needed? Other than just withholding the chopper completely? You can simply ask for a refund or even forfeit those deposit and go buy something else and didn't waste much time for the latter, but if US completed the transaction with Pakistan and America come around and withhold those spare parts and missile, which would put Pakistani government in a more "Disadvantageous" position, don't you think? Being having those chopper but cannot actually use it.

Now, I am not saying my source is always right, I can be wrong, however, my point being I am gauging a piece of information with critical thinking and logic, that's how useless data turn into useful information. Think about it, if the deal is off, shouldn't Pakistani government would have know by now? or they are okay on paying whatever amount upfront and wait for something that will not ever receive forever? I mean either the American is that kind of a stateman that can play Pakistan that way, or you are giving too little credit to the Pakistani government.