Vikramditya & the IAC Vikrant Threat To Pakistan Waters

[Darth Vader]

Yes they are threat to Pakistan but Pakistan has invested in Carrier Killers as above member too has mentioned. For now these should be a threat to india's billion$ ACC's.

But I think in future Pakistan should try getting one.

It Will be OverKill FOR Pakistan we cant afford it nor we need it instead of buying 1 we cant buy way more frigates and destroyers which in long run can be more capable

 

[SQ8]

And women, I hope !

Which means heres a glass to you being out there once more my Pakistani Don Juan brother !

Achaaa Oscar eik question : How effective could mobile Land Based Missile Batteries be against the Aircraft Carrier & more so against Surface Vessels ?

No, the Pind wali khatoon is unforgivable.. With women.. I hold grudges that would make India's problem with Hafiz Saeed look like friendly disagreement.

As for Land based missiles, they are effective as long as they can get to the Carrier and surface vessels and be provided with targeting information. Silkworm batteries are a famous example.. and the father of the Brahmos.. the P-800 is an example of an effective system like that today.

 

[Armstrong]

No, the Pind wali khatoon is unforgivable.. With women.. I hold grudges that would make India's problem with Hafiz Saeed look like friendly disagreement.

As for Land based missiles, they are effective as long as they can get to the Carrier and surface vessels and be provided with targeting information. Silkworm batteries are a famous example.. and the father of the Brahmos.. the P-800 is an example of an effective system like that today.

Oh Allah Khair kareiiii !

Yaraaa but wouldn't a mix & match of the C-802/3, C-400AKG , Babur, Ra'ad & a squadron of Mirages or Jf-17s at Gwadar or Pasni along with a SPADA 2000 or one of those Medium Ranged HQ series be able to make for a decent Blockade Denial Ability for our forces ?

 

[SQ8]

Oh Allah Khair kareiiii !

Yaraaa but wouldn't a mix & match of the C-802/3, C-400AKG , Babur, Ra'ad & a squadron of Mirages or Jf-17s at Gwadar or Pasni along with a SPADA 2000 or one of those Medium Ranged HQ series be able to make for a decent Blockade Denial Ability for our forces ?

For a while yes. The Babur and Ra'ad are both not yet capable of being used against shipping. The VPAs with their exocets are already dedicated to that role. When and If the JF-17's replace the F-7 squadron at Masroor they can undertake missions with both the C-802 and CM-400AKG. As such, the 5 P-3C Orions that we will have eventually will also be able to provide support with their Harpoons..
So it is still a respectable deterrent force. But the simply problem is, that it will be facing overwhelming odds(in case the Indian military planners play it right and not take it overly cautious)

 

[Storm Force]

Sending p3 orions and mirage 5 with cruise missles against a carrier with 24 mig29k on board is risk. Firstly u run the risk of fuel shortage or u wil need refullers. The carrier may be constantly moving yet retain a radius of 400km from pak shores. More importantly the mig29k bvr danger is huge...like I said earlier bigger more potent mmrca wil be better like j11. Or super hornets ....

 

[Dillinger]

Sending p3 orions and mirage 5 with cruise missles against a carrier with 24 mig29k on board is risk. Firstly u run the risk of fuel shortage or u wil need refullers. The carrier may be constantly moving yet retain a radius of 400km from pak shores. More importantly the mig29k bvr danger is huge...like I said earlier bigger more potent mmrca wil be better like j11. Or super hornets ....

That is a given (albeit you need to furnish details in a better manner), but what @Oscar, @Capt.Popeye and me have been trying to clear up is as follows. Attacking an AC is akin to striking at a target within a dense ADGE, it is indeed risky and the chances of success depend upon many factors (flight profile adopted, ability to catch the CBG with surveillance). On the other hand defending against a determined air-attack is also not without its challenges, the chances of success depend upon many factors (ability of on-board AEW&C assets to detect low altitude intruders, ability of the CBG's defense system wrt dealing with a saturation attack). What we are trying to get across is that a lot of posters here need to look past their binary mode of looking at things and try to incorporate all the variables involved.

As such if I were to state that at a considerable distance off the shore of Pakistan, limiting the Fulcrums to a maritime and shore attack role, the AC would be quite safe and would have the requisite operational space within which to avoid detection by PN's aerial assets and set up an effective BARCAP- I would be largely correct.

IF @Oscar were to state that if the AC closes in and begins to be employed as a platform for launching deeper strikes into Pakistan, as it nears the engagement envelope of shore based over the horizon radars and the airspace in and around the Pakistani littorals the threat to the AC will be very high- he would be largely correct.

Now these contexts are super simplified, meant to convey the basic idea, but I thing you'll get the gist.

@Armstrong Why are you meandering around here and not on Naswar...

 

[GURU DUTT]

Oh Allah Khair kareiiii !

Yaraaa but wouldn't a mix & match of the C-802/3, C-400AKG , Babur, Ra'ad & a squadron of Mirages or Jf-17s at Gwadar or Pasni along with a SPADA 2000 or one of those Medium Ranged HQ series be able to make for a decent Blockade Denial Ability for our forces ?

salaam bhai jaan

well you will need new seakers and totally new gidence/radars in your Babu/Raad combo to make them an effective ASM while C-802/3 &C-400AKG can be threats if you could bring them close (say at least 200Km radius) to the CBG which again will have multi layeres ASEA based Radar shield backed my a huge innoventorry of LR/MR & SR missiles and CWG systems and backed by heli borne AWACs and a Squad of MIG29Ks with there own BVR, HARM & ALCMs..

and about your Gadwar & Pansi JF-17 will be already engaged by the land based assets(Pune/baroda/bangluru) of IAFs.. MKI s, M2K s , Jags & in future Rafale - FGFA combo not to forget all pakistani airspace is already scanned/tracked by indian ground and aerostat based radar systems

as for your Spada 2000 , HQ series well all owr airial assets have fairli most modern EW suits and they carry a wide variety of AA , SA , ASM & ARM missiles

so there is hardli PN & PAF can do to counter naval blockade onli thing you can do is make peace with india and that good for both nations

 

[nomi007]

So much trust on your anti ship missile. Many variables need to be considered and factor those in and it is not so easy. When situation demands sure it would be put to use but lets pray that day never comes. A basic objective of procuring such platforms is to deter the enemy form doing any misadventure. So in a way you could see it as a platform which deters the enemy attacking. And at the end of the day isn't it the only thing we want - PEACE. So dont wish for something that could be harmful for the whole region.

we trust in ALLAH not in weapons sir
your
Vikramditya lacks air defence system and it is easy to hit a big ship with march 4+ speed missile
proof
Livefist: Vikramaditya Done, Russia Wants To Help With New Vikrant
 

In-fact IMO, we will use these 2 AC's only to launch deep strikes into pakistan (In case of full scale war) from the least secured border of Baluchistan on Iranian Border.

If you look at the map above, then you can realize that these AC's will give us Unique edge in case we plan to attack pakistan from two sides, without even worrying about Mid-Air Refueling of Fighter jets. In-fact we can simultaneously launch coordinated Air Offense from both Arabian sea (INAF , 60+ Fighter Jets)and mainland India (IAF).

And a coordinated offense from east and south will surprise the PAF with Already scattered resources.This is the only scenario i can think of about our Ac's getting used against PN, other-then that our surface fleet of western command is enough for one on one fight considering the current strength of PN.



@Abingdonboy @Dillinger @Vinod2070 @Capt.Popeye

Your views on above scenario ?

sir u are going to attack on Pakistan not Somalia

 

[GURU DUTT]

we trust in ALLAH not in weapons sir
your
Vikramditya lacks air defence system and it is easy to hit a big ship with march 4+ speed missile
proof
Livefist: Vikramaditya Done, Russia Wants To Help With New Vikrant
 

sir u are going to attack on Pakistan not Somalia

well sir "Vikrmaditya" as you think does have the best 3D/4D + ASEA based 400KM+ multi layered radar shield with a huge innoventorry of LR/MR&SR Sam batteries thanks to the multiple assets gaurding it like corvetts/cruisers & destroyers + there are 24 MIG29Ks with 850KM+ fighting radius withowt extrnal feul tanks and the deadli arsenell of AA/SA/ARM missiles & stand off wepons they carry that will neutralize any threats from your devine PAF if it ever tries to be adventureous while they will be supported by a bunch of Heliborne K31s AWACS

first tell me how will you neutralize them before having a chance to fire your supa-dupa ASMs at INS Vikramaditya

the hard fact is all you could do is hope that you never come in such a situation as IAFs Greenpines and other radars backed by MKIs + MIG29s & M2K9s & Jags will not let your F-16s and JF-17 venture even owt of there airbases and your dreaming of taking on CBGs

 

[Capt.Popeye]

we trust in ALLAH not in weapons sir
your
Vikramditya lacks air defence system and it is easy to hit a big ship with march 4+ speed missile
proof
Livefist: Vikramaditya Done, Russia Wants To Help With New Vikrant
 

sir u are going to attack on Pakistan not Somalia

LOLLL; then its time to disband your Army and turn all its soldiers into Mullas !!!!!
Kiyani can then become the Grand Mufti.

sir u are going to attack on Pakistan not Somalia

Is there so much difference?

 

[MKI 30]

we trust in ALLAH not in weapons sir
your
Vikramditya lacks air defence system and it is easy to hit a big ship with march 4+ speed missile
proof
Livefist: Vikramaditya Done, Russia Wants To Help With New Vikrant

Are you acting dumb?

A AC never ventures out alone. It is well protected by a group of ships both above and under the surface. So first you have to breach the robust defence shield and even after that the chances of missile actually hitting the target is not 100% as the carrier can get mobile at good speeds.

And you are talking as if Pakistan is readying its fleet to attack the Carrier on its way to India. LOL

Please note it would not remain a sitting duck as you assume it to be and somewhere near 2017 the BARAK-8 system would be installed on the ship in addition to the CBG which you so conveniently forget.

 

[IND151]

Will just ask/try and buy the DF 21 ASBM, with its long range it will keep the Indian AC far away from Pakistani shore for them to be effective..

ASBM demands efficient Nox and several satellites permenatly providing surveillance of certain area; A report suggests if China wants to constantly monitor all SCS 24x7' it will require 18-20 sats.

Oblivious now you will know that ASBM is hyped weapon.

 

[akand bharat]

well sir "Vikrmaditya" as you think does have the best 3D/4D + ASEA based 400KM+ multi layered radar shield with a huge innoventorry of LR/MR&SR Sam batteries thanks to the multiple assets gaurding it like corvetts/cruisers & destroyers + there are 24 MIG29Ks with 850KM+ fighting radius withowt extrnal feul tanks and the deadli arsenell of AA/SA/ARM missiles & stand off wepons they carry that will neutralize any threats from your devine PAF if it ever tries to be adventureous while they will be supported by a bunch of Heliborne K31s AWACS

first tell me how will you neutralize them before having a chance to fire your supa-dupa ASMs at INS Vikramaditya

the hard fact is all you could do is hope that you never come in such a situation as IAFs Greenpines and other radars backed by MKIs + MIG29s & M2K9s & Jags will not let your F-16s and JF-17 venture even owt of there airbases and your dreaming of taking on CBGs

YOU COMPLETLY OWNED HIM BROTHER

 

[Nassr]

It is indeed surprising that whenever warfare is being discussed in the South Asian ambiance, conventional balance is the only factor discussed. South Asia crossed the Nuclear Rubicon a long time ago and the environment which was tilted earlier in favour of conventional superiority has been superseded by the equation which is now balanced through nuclear deterrence. In the current and future environment nuclear factor determines the extant of conventional superiority and its application is determined by the extant of nuclear thresholds.

The strategy of choking the sea lanes of communications through use of ACCs of AC Battle Groups is a bygone in South Asian environment. The symbolism of possessing an ACC remains a mere symbolism in the future warfare between India and Pakistan. India can however use this capability for selective coercive application against target countries at high seas during the peace time, against non-nuclear littoral states for force projection, fighting piracy and provision of logistical support during humanitarian disasters etc.

This however does not stop the technology bugs from discussing hi-tech platforms which essentially remain technology demonstrators in possession of those who think that India becomes a world power by possessing a few big boats in seas dominated by much stronger extra-regional navies.

 

[Dillinger]

we trust in ALLAH not in weapons sir
your

Into divination much, @Oscar? Seems like someone is out to validate your post on the "Has the army learnt its lesson" thread.