Vietnam ordered stealth destroyers P28 of India

[Vyom]

the chinese won´t be amused if India supports Vietnam military buildup, especially the Navy. those destroyers if they come would be the spearhead in the SC sea. I am curious to know if India ignores chinese concern?

Give no Jack to the Chinese.. every country acts in self interests.. hell if Vietnam takes support from USA to keep itself secure it should be taken. National Security and Safety of citizens and territory is the foremost, its amoralistic.

 

[Shinigami]

the chinese won´t be amused if India supports Vietnam military buildup, especially the Navy. those destroyers if they come would be the spearhead in the SC sea. I am curious to know if India ignores chinese concern?

the title is wrong, the deal is for stealth corvettes although it may be modified into a mini- destroyer.

it was a shock to read that india will sell six stealth destroyers (kolkata class) to vietnam, not only are they ridiculously expensive, they would even change the power balance of east asia.
in fact i believe india has just 3 of them with 4 more (Visakhapatnam class) on the way

 

[Loafer]

We should hand over the retiring Rajput class Destroyers to Viets. They will get some experience in capital ships.

 

[Viet]

India is developing its own class of conventional submarines heavily influenced by Scorpenes, but with AIP and VLS for Brahmos and Nirbhay. Vietnam should think about similar class of submarines too.

@Viet & @Carlosa

carlosa is a fan of subs, while I all for destroyers.

actually the Chinese has a navy that is some 10 times bigger than ours. but their current military budget of $210 billion, and increasing, I won´t be surprised if in 5 years, we face a navy that is 20 times bigger than we can ever field at sea. on paper, we have no chance now, and less chance tomorrow and the times to come. what we need a wonder. AIP subs with VLS for Brahmos and Nirbhay could be the wonder we need

 

[Skull and Bones]

carlosa is a fan of subs, while I all for destroyers.

actually the Chinese has a navy that is some 10 times bigger than ours. but their current military budget of $210 billion, and increasing, I won´t be surprised if in 5 years, we face a navy that is 20 times bigger than we can ever field at sea. on paper, we have no chance now, and less chance tomorrow and the times to come. what we need a wonder. AIP subs with VLS for Brahmos and Nirbhay could be the wonder we need

During 2011-12, I was involved in one of the spin off project for developing Fuel cell for AIP during my internship at DRDO. Since then, their prototype have matured a lot.

 

[MKC]

We should hand over the retiring Rajput class Destroyers to Viets. They will get some experience in capital ships.

Rajput class destroyers may be expensive to operate as they are heavy & old.

 

[Loafer]

Rajput class destroyers may be expensive to operate as they are heavy & old.

That is also true. Maybe we can subsidize it? It would mount to few millions per year.

 

[MKC]

That is also true. Maybe we can subsidize it? It would mount to few millions per year.

I didn't talk about initial cost which most probably will be cost of weapons & sensors but I was talking about operating costs.

 

[Loafer]

I didn't talk about initial cost which most probably will be cost of weapons & sensors but I was talking about operating costs.

I am talking about that only. Repair maintenance and fuel costs. Plus the additional sailors and manpower needed.

 

[Carlosa]

India is developing its own class of conventional submarines heavily influenced by Scorpenes, but with AIP and VLS for Brahmos and Nirbhay. Vietnam should think about similar class of submarines too.

@Viet & @Carlosa

Good point. Even the Kilos that VN is getting could have an upgrade stretching the hull in order to add the AIP system. Subs need to have a mid life upgrade in order to overhaul the hull due to metal fatigue, so that would be a good opportunity to add the AIP.

It seems like the next VN purchase of subs will be from Italy (S-1000) or the new Swedish type 26, but nothing is confirmed yet.

@Viet

carlosa is a fan of subs, while I all for destroyers.

actually the Chinese has a navy that is some 10 times bigger than ours. but their current military budget of $210 billion, and increasing, I won´t be surprised if in 5 years, we face a navy that is 20 times bigger than we can ever field at sea. on paper, we have no chance now, and less chance tomorrow and the times to come. what we need a wonder. AIP subs with VLS for Brahmos and Nirbhay could be the wonder we need

Subs my man, subs. Considering where technology is today, only subs can hide. As submariners like to say: there are subs and everything else are just targets.....

 

[Penguin]

Wow. This is Amazing.

This could be the Modified Project 17A frigate with a displacement of 6,500 tons. Maybe 7000 tons.

This is not a P17 or P17A based ship. See the double stack arrangement, indicating similar propulsion to P15 and P15A (COGAG) rather than CODOG. See double bridge. See weapons layout, sensor fit.

P28 will get BARAK 8 during next mid refit, it was officially reported a while back. If BARAK 8 is installed, then there is fair chance it will be installed with MF star to increase lethality. BRAMHOS is confirmed but I believe it will be 8 only. I haven't heard of LW series on Kamorta class so far honestly.

Barak 8 AND Brahmos on a p28? Fat chance. Where would these be fitted? What systems would have to be dropped to accommodate? BS

I have already given you the power rating, what more do you require ?

Shivalik has 2 16PA6-STC engine which gives it a total power of 10,296 kW and the ship weights 6,200 tons. Do you beleive it can go at 30 knots ?

Kamorta has 4 12PA6-STC engine which gives it a total power of 15,552 kW and the ship only weights 3,400 tons.

And you want to believe it can only go at 24 knots ?

You want to believe "sources" more than your common sense ?

P17 Shivalik
Installed power:

• 2 × Pielstick 16 PA6 STC Diesel engines, 15,200 shp (11,300 kW)
• 2 × GE LM2500+ 33,600 shp (25,100 kW)

Propulsion: boost turbines in CODOG configuration.
(Top) Speed:

• 32 knots (59 km/h; 37 mph)
• 22 knots (41 km/h; 25 mph) (diesel engines only)

P28 Kamorta
Propulsion:

• 4 × Pielstick 12 PA6 STC Diesel engines
• CODAD, DCNS raft mounted gearbox

(Top) Speed: 25 kn (46 km/h; 29 mph)

The implication is that is 25kn with all four diesels up and on.

 

[Carlosa]

This is not a P17 or P17A based ship. See the double stack arrangement, indicating similar propulsion to P15 and P15A (COGAG) rather than CODOG. See double bridge. See weapons layout, sensor fit.


Barak 8 AND Brahmos on a p28? Fat chance. Where would these be fitted? What systems would have to be dropped to accommodate? BS.

Not a fat chance or BS at all. Installing Barak 8 on P28 class is part of the official upcoming upgrade, they'll go on the space at the sides of the hangar, 16 missiles on each side of the ship. You can see the picture in this article: https://defencyclopedia.com/2015/09...sis-of-indias-deadly-anti-submarine-corvette/

The picture mentions Mica since that was the original option, but it has been changed to Barak 8 now. Picture link: http://i.imgur.com/hVn01k2.jpg

There is plenty of space for 8 Brahmos in the spot where they have the 2 RBU-6000s. The RBU-6000s are not that important.

 

[Penguin]

Not a fat chance or BS at all. Installing Barak 8 on P28 class is part of the official upcoming upgrade, they'll go on the space at the sides of the hangar, 16 missiles on each side of the ship. You can see the picture in this article: https://defencyclopedia.com/2015/09...sis-of-indias-deadly-anti-submarine-corvette/
[/IMG]
The picture mentions Mica since that was the original option, but it has been changed to Barak 8 now.

There is plenty of space for 8 Brahmos in the spot where they have the 2 RBU-6000s. The RBU-6000s are not that important.

Mmm, I'm referring the BOTH Barak-8 AND Brahmos together.

The space at the sides of the hangar were originally for 2 sets of 8 Barak-1 (i.e. 8 missiles on each beam, for a total of 16 missiles).

Consider that Barak-1 is 98kg, just over 2m long (2.1m) with a missile body diameter of 17cm and a span of 68.5cm, whereas Barak-8 is 275kg, 4.5m long, has a body diameter of 22.5cm and a span of 94cm.

That means the VLS for Barak-8 is larger than for Barak-1, not just in length but also in deck footprint (area).

It may be not so easy to fit these larger VLS on the flank positions, not in the last place because of the X-shape of the hull: this forces a VLS inboard, close to the rear mast, and then if the deck footprint is larger, there may be an issue. All this assuming that the length can be accommodated, without unduely interfering with the hangar space and facilities (4.5m eats into 2 decks, rarther than 1). Which is not a given.

Weight would also go up from 16 x 98kg =1568 kg to 16 x 4400 kg, just for the missiles. The larger VLU will likely also be heavier. So you're looking at adding 5 tons easily high in the superstructure. Add to that the installation of MF-STAR. I foresee potential topweight issues.

Barak 1 VLSs

Pics such as the one below suggest a single 8 cell vls for Brahmos may well fit the space taken up by 2 RBU6000

RBU-6000 and magazine/reloader

But Brahmos is 8.5m long, so the VLS will be at least that long. The Russian 3R-14UKSK-Kh Ship General-Purpose Firing System (SGPFS) used for Brahmos holds missiles up to 9.6 m long. So, that is easily 4 decks deep, if not 5. Whereas your RBU-6000s and magazine/reloader take at most 2 or 3 decks. That too may be more dificult.

http://concern-agat.ru/en/productio...-14uksk-kh-ship-general-purpose-firing-system

 

[Penguin]

X-shaped hull.

 

[MKC]

This is not a P17 or P17A based ship. See the double stack arrangement, indicating similar propulsion to P15 and P15A (COGAG) rather than CODOG. See double bridge. See weapons layout, sensor fit.
The implication is that is 25kn with all four diesels up and on.

This is P15B Vishakhapatnam-class destroyer, I can't know that by picture but can know by googling.

Barak 8 AND Brahmos on a p28? Fat chance. Where would these be fitted? What systems would have to be dropped to accommodate? BS

There will be VL Barak 1/MICA/Maitri on P28A or may be Barak 8. BrahMos can be there in place of RBU-6000.
There will be BrahMos/Nirbhay on Next Generation Missile Vessels (about 2000 tonnes) which are going to be much smaller than Kamorta-class & almost all of specifications for both are same except ASW capability of P28A removed vs AShM/Land attack capability added & aviation facility removed but I still think not much difference compared to size.
I think RBU-6000 using a lot of space.