Used F16's - EDA 50 ~ 100 Available

[Bilal Khan 777]

Sir,

You start with thoughtless comments---and end with a more thoughtless comment---.

This issue is beyond your capability to understand---. Your rhetoric and smart talk is just to make you feel good--so be happy in the lala land.

MK, we all have our feel good moments, let him have his

 

[Blue Marlin]

There were exploratory discussions between Pakistan and Norway roughly 7 years ago for a proposed sale of ex-Norwegian f-16s, but that fell through largely because Norway maintains an arms embargo on numerous countries, Pakistan included.

Cyprus, Algeria, Botswana, Colombia, Egypt, the Philippines, Iraq, Yemen, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Lebanon, Macao, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Taiwan, Ukraine and Zimbabwe, these are the countries Norway does not export military equipment too. Sales to China are also restricted, but not completely embargoed.

I can't foresee any current scenario that would see Norwegian F-16s being sold to Pakistan so ex-Jordanian birds remain the best bet. Ours are likely to go to Romania or end up in long-term storage and they are being phased out.

^
AIM-120 and AIM-2000. Norway doesn't use Sidewinder, but has signed a buyers agreement for AIM-9X Block II.

norway is scrapping their fleet.
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/as-f-35-comes-online-norway-to-scrap-f-16-fleet


if romania declined a deal to buy used f16's from the usa, the chances of them buying some of europes oldest f16 is not gonna happen. they will buy new f16.

 

[帅的一匹]

it was a done deal. but then canceled due to the "Pakistan History's worst financial crisis".

I understand brother. It's a regret, we will try best to help Pakistan improve economy. CPEC is a must.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

Stock was rejected by Polish Air Force as upgraded cost make it equivalent new Plane 52 block cost.

If this the case for us too, then obviously useless.
If the cost after gradation is very economical price then would be appreciated.

 

[Khafee]

Stock was rejected by Polish Air Force as upgraded cost make it equivalent new Plane 52 block cost.

If this the case for us too, then obviously useless.
If the cost after gradation is very economical price then would be appreciated.

Depends, if after the upgrades does PAF get Aim-9X & APG-83 or not.

 

[RealNapster]

I understand brother. It's a regret, we will try best to help Pakistan improve economy. CPEC is a must.

Inshallah.

 

[volatile]

Nice thread after some time ,to start with and try to put my bias a side .

Facts
1. We need to induct/retire ~200 jets by 2020 .
2. Our Enemy India have already 4/4++ Gen Jets in large numbers (Mirage 2000/Su30 MKI) .
3. Current Infrastructure for F16 is there .
4. Thunder peak Production rate 16-20 planes/year (64-80)
5. F7P / F7 PG`s / Mirages are irrelevant very soon with the inception of modern fighters in IAF .
6. US pressure on weapon sale (EDA or 3rdparty sales ) can get plus hard to get upgrades SABER
7. J10B/C is available and will take 2-3 years for induction but lethal platform strings free as well as AESA must
8. Surplus F16 will be available *** 4600 built and operational 3900 still needs to retire
9. Structural upgrades for F16 air frame is there and already studies being done for 12,000 flying hours
10 . PAF hopes for 6th Gen as solution to cater future needs
11. J31/5th Gen destined to replace legacy fighter
12. Kill switch issue
13 . COIN operations F16`s are best and proven
14. F16 fear factor over Indians
15. Rafales are coming to South Asia by 2020

PAF VS IAF
2020
Jf17 - additional 65-80 on top of 75+ Jf17 = 150 , SU-30 (275+) with availability rate of 60% (200)
F16 - 75 + , Mirage + rafale Induction 85+
Not including F7/Mirages , Mig 29 (60+)
Teja (?)

Proposed option

JF17 - 150 (block 3 100 , block 2 50 )
F16 -75 + Additional 25 -40 (as we need to replace sooner or later these F16`s as well one day so try to keep it as low but as effective to avail economies of scale (the concept here is a blend of economies of scale and product life cycle management) make F16 - 100 not more or less but all block 50/52 +
J10C/SU35 start inducting these birds in small numbers to replace F16`s in coming decades

for future program J31/Invest on PAF own vision by 2025 .

Cost
From the cost point of view assume cost for Jordanian F16 (please correct me we pay 75 Mil $ + for a squadron so cost wise its effective solution) . Even cheaper than F17 at times , For maintenance we managed pressler amendment and right now mood in Washington is changing again actually its funny we always think this is battle of civilizations but it's not every country has to work for its own and its not necessarily that it is always Win /Lose relationship .I have worked with many Americans as well as Europeans they are always into Win/Win its matter of how you deal with them ,If we play smart we can get SABER upgrade as well .

 

[Khafee]

Nice thread after some time ,to start with and try to put my bias a side .

Facts
1. We need to induct/retire ~200 jets by 2020 .
2. Our Enemy India have already 4/4++ Gen Jets in large numbers (Mirage 2000/Su30 MKI) .
3. Current Infrastructure for F16 is there .
4. Thunder peak Production rate 16-20 planes/year (64-80)
5. F7P / F7 PG`s / Mirages are irrelevant very soon with the inception of modern fighters in IAF .
6. US pressure on weapon sale (EDA or 3rdparty sales ) can get plus hard to get upgrades SABER
7. J10B/C is available and will take 2-3 years for induction but lethal platform strings free as well as AESA must
8. Surplus F16 will be available *** 4600 built and operational 3900 still needs to retire
9. Structural upgrades for F16 air frame is there and already studies being done for 12,000 flying hours
10 . PAF hopes for 6th Gen as solution to cater future needs
11. J31/5th Gen destined to replace legacy fighter
12. Kill switch issue
13 . COIN operations F16`s are best and proven
14. F16 fear factor over Indians
15. Rafales are coming to South Asia by 2020

PAF VS IAF
2020
Jf17 - additional 65-80 on top of 75+ Jf17 = 150 , SU-30 (275+) with availability rate of 60% (200)
F16 - 75 + , Mirage + rafale Induction 85+
Not including F7/Mirages , Mig 29 (60+)
Teja (?)

Proposed option

JF17 - 150 (block 3 100 , block 2 50 )
F16 -75 + Additional 25 -40 (as we need to replace sooner or later these F16`s as well one day so try to keep it as low but as effective to avail economies of scale (the concept here is a blend of economies of scale and product life cycle management) make F16 - 100 not more or less but all block 50/52 +
J10C/SU35 start inducting these birds in small numbers to replace F16`s in coming decades

for future program J31/Invest on PAF own vision by 2025 .

Cost
From the cost point of view assume cost for Jordanian F16 (please correct me we pay 75 Mil $ + for a squadron so cost wise its effective solution) . Even cheaper than F17 at times , For maintenance we managed pressler amendment and right now mood in Washington is changing again actually its funny we always think this is battle of civilizations but it's not every country has to work for its own and its not necessarily that it is always Win /Lose relationship .I have worked with many Americans as well as Europeans they are always into Win/Win its matter of how you deal with them ,If we play smart we can get SABER upgrade as well .

Good Effort, Appreciate it.

 

[Tolkien]

Nice thread after some time ,to start with and try to put my bias a side .

Facts
1. We need to induct/retire ~200 jets by 2020 .
2. Our Enemy India have already 4/4++ Gen Jets in large numbers (Mirage 2000/Su30 MKI) .
3. Current Infrastructure for F16 is there .
4. Thunder peak Production rate 16-20 planes/year (64-80)
5. F7P / F7 PG`s / Mirages are irrelevant very soon with the inception of modern fighters in IAF .
6. US pressure on weapon sale (EDA or 3rdparty sales ) can get plus hard to get upgrades SABER
7. J10B/C is available and will take 2-3 years for induction but lethal platform strings free as well as AESA must
8. Surplus F16 will be available *** 4600 built and operational 3900 still needs to retire
9. Structural upgrades for F16 air frame is there and already studies being done for 12,000 flying hours
10 . PAF hopes for 6th Gen as solution to cater future needs
11. J31/5th Gen destined to replace legacy fighter
12. Kill switch issue
13 . COIN operations F16`s are best and proven
14. F16 fear factor over Indians
15. Rafales are coming to South Asia by 2020

PAF VS IAF
2020
Jf17 - additional 65-80 on top of 75+ Jf17 = 150 , SU-30 (275+) with availability rate of 60% (200)
F16 - 75 + , Mirage + rafale Induction 85+
Not including F7/Mirages , Mig 29 (60+)
Teja (?)

Proposed option

JF17 - 150 (block 3 100 , block 2 50 )
F16 -75 + Additional 25 -40 (as we need to replace sooner or later these F16`s as well one day so try to keep it as low but as effective to avail economies of scale (the concept here is a blend of economies of scale and product life cycle management) make F16 - 100 not more or less but all block 50/52 +
J10C/SU35 start inducting these birds in small numbers to replace F16`s in coming decades

for future program J31/Invest on PAF own vision by 2025 .

Cost
From the cost point of view assume cost for Jordanian F16 (please correct me we pay 75 Mil $ + for a squadron so cost wise its effective solution) . Even cheaper than F17 at times , For maintenance we managed pressler amendment and right now mood in Washington is changing again actually its funny we always think this is battle of civilizations but it's not every country has to work for its own and its not necessarily that it is always Win /Lose relationship .I have worked with many Americans as well as Europeans they are always into Win/Win its matter of how you deal with them ,If we play smart we can get SABER upgrade as well .

We will have 40 Tejas by 2020 and also why are you assuming avalibilty rate for Su-30 MKI only.
All 4th generation fighters have availability rates between 60-75%.

 

[volatile]

We will have 40 Tejas by 2020 and also why are you assuming avalibilty rate for Su-30 MKI only.
All 4th generation fighters have availability rates between 60-75%.

Please check again i have already assume 200 Plus means in between this . MY analysis are based on facts and at the moment Teja`s program is balanced between rollback and some inductions may be so i have ignore Teja`s as well as PAF legacy fighters like F7` and Mirages . Nothing personnel .

@Khafee Sir appreciated for your comments as well as rating

 

[Tolkien]

Please check again i have already assume 200 Plus means in between this . MY analysis are based on facts and at the moment Teja`s program is balanced between rollback and some inductions may be so i have ignore Teja`s as well as PAF legacy fighters like F7` and Mirages . Nothing personnel .

@Khafee Sir appreciated for your comments as well as rating

Then you should also include servicibiliaty rates of JF-17, F-16, MiG-29.
Also F-7 & Mirages are old aircraft whereas Tejas are new 4th generation.

 

[flamer84]

Well PAF could go for these EDA birds, 50~100. New ones were available, as long as PAF paid for them. These upgraded birds could be a game changer.

Forum - What is your opinion?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Poland shoots down used F-16A/B acquisition

• 23 MARCH, 2017
  
• BY: BARTOSZ GLOWACKI
  
• WARSAW

Poland has ruled out purchasing second-hand Lockheed Martin F-16A/Bs to expand its air force, citing excessive modernisation costs.

“We are not going to buy used older versions of the F-16,” deputy minister for national defence Bartosz Kownacki told a parliamentary committee examining the modernisation of the country’s armed forces on 22 March.

In January, Kownacki had indicated that Warsaw was considering the acquisition of 50-100 used F-16s, or new F-35s.

A week later, the defence minister Antoni Macierewicz added that the ministry was not ruling out the purchase of more F-16s “depending on the conditions that would eventually be agreed with the US side”.

Kownacki says that Poland continues to analyse various options as it looks to expand its air force fleet, as well as cope with the retirement of Soviet-built types such as the RAC MiG-29 and Sukhoi Su-22. However, he says that studies preclude the acquisition of used F-16s. “The analysis of purchasing of F-16A/B aircraft were carried out by the Ministry of National Defence, the general staff of the Polish armed forces and the armament inspectorate, and after that, it was clear that this was not the right direction," he says.

“The cost of upgrading second-hand aircraft would be high, and their capabilities would be small.”

Deputy commander in chief of the Polish armed forces Gen Jan Sliwka stresses that Poland had been “surprised” by how much Romania paid to upgrade a batch of F-16A/Bs acquired from Portugal.

“It cost more than the price of the same number of new aircraft,” he says.

"We could say that the cost of acquiring used a F-16 would be bigger than buying a new one and that is why we will not go in that direction," says Kownacki.

Warsaw has yet to decide whether to acquire new F-16s or the F-35, although Kownacki notes the high cost of the latter.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...FGFDN-2017-0329-GLOBnews&sfid=70120000000taAm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry to say it like this but it looks like the Polish DM is an idiot.Romania paid 800 mil$ for 12 F16's,including MLU,training,weapons,spares,simulators and modernising airfields.

 

[Sinnerman108]

18 New, which might have expired.

These are used A/B which and given their qty will require a separate approval. Nonetheless it will definitely strengthen the Pak -US relationship, something uncle sam needs to seriously think about.

@CENTCOM Here's an opportunity for you, on a silver platter. Lets see what you make of it.

@MastanKhan Your opinion please!

Imagine this.

Su-35, built on western precision machinery.
The airf-rame, engine and avionics all redone on swiss machines.

Building a total of 200+ planes to be used by more than 5 countries !

Word born.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/u-a-e-to-build-russian-warplane-as-mideast-tensions-rise.479447/

 

[lovepakaramy]

Hi,

Assalam o alaikum,
I am big fan of this PDF. i had my old id but lost that.
--
i do not understand when this typical Pakistani mind set will end and our Pakistani brother will move forward.
world is going for the most advance equipment but PAF and PAF PDF fan boy still moving around This So called Best fighter jet in the world "F SOLLA".

Uncle sam is in now india's hand. we will never get what we are xpecting.
you are not getting any advance equipment with this jet. so to kyun F16 ki tasbeeh parhty rahty hain yahan kuch log?

i donot know wen we will stop crying about financial issues -

Our all weather friend/brother China is supporting us, Pakistan's economy is getting better day by day just because of china and than why still we are tilting toward US.
we have best option available J10b/c and china can give us - we just need to ask them once.
but still running after af soola. why?

i donot anything about Fighter jets etc. but i want my Air force to be best of best.

3 SAAL SE EK HI BAT EK HI BAT KA RONA...
stop crying and move forward. plzzzzzz

 

[khanasifm]

Looks like paf f16 fleet will follow mirage with paf buying old aircraft to Leo fleet operational and expand by one or two more sqn ideally it will like another block 62 plus Sqn.