usa makes war with pakistan?

[cactuslily58]

The US has only attacked AQ/Taliban targets - and most analysts assume with the implicit approval of the GoP.

What we are referring to is an attack on Pakistani Government assets - the military, nuclear facilities etc. That is a threshold the US is not close to crossing.

Even in the bombing of the FC post, the US has gone out of its way to state that it did not deliberately target the post, and has initiated a joint investigation into the incident and argued for better communication to avoid such incidents - indicating IMO that it is not a line it wants to cross at this point.

As far as sanctions go, what exactly will they accomplish?

How much of the part highlighted in red & green do u ACTUALLY believe ? Is this the 1st time US has hit targets in Pakistan ? What did they say each time ? Does the GOP sanction /allow engaging of its troops & citizens by outside forces ? Will they not do it again ? Lets face it, once Uncle Sam has paid Pakistan for the services rendered , he does not give a damn how anyone feels & the noises anyone makes provided his interests are met and / or there is justifiable reason / intelligence to do it.

All the above may also be seen in the light that the Gen in Islamabad owes his existence & survival to Uncle Sam.

As far as sanctions go,Patriotism apart, remember the condition of the economy before 9/11 ?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

How much of the part highlighted in red & green do u ACTUALLY believe ?

Is this the 1st time US has hit targets in Pakistan ? What did they say each time ? Does the GOP sanction /allow engaging of its troops & citizens by outside forces ? Will they not do it again ? Lets face it, once Uncle Sam has paid Pakistan for the services rendered , he does not give a damn how anyone feels & the noises anyone makes provided his interests are met and / or there is justifiable reason / intelligence to do it.

This has been the first time a military target like an outpost has been hit.

Again, the premise of a war against Pakistan centers around the US attacking military and government forces, institutions, and facilities - this incident is the first time the US has done so, and it has made all the right noises in terms of not repeating it and conducting a joint investigation of the event.

What they have done before is attack militant and terrorist targets, which is different from attacking the Government, as I said in my last post.

All the above may also be seen in the light that the Gen in Islamabad owes his existence & survival to Uncle Sam.

You are confusing two issues here - one is the attack on Taliban and AQ targets, for which some analysts have said there is tacit approval from the GoP. The other is the so far only attack (that I know of) on a GoP asset, and the US has, like I said before, gone to great lengths to clarify that it was unintentional, and offered a joint investigation into it, as well as recommendations to increase communications to avoid such a situation again.

Now, if such events keep reoccurring, then there would be some validity to your argument, as of now ir is a one off incident.

As far as sanctions go,Patriotism apart, remember the condition of the economy before 9/11 ?

Patriotism had nothing to do with my comment.

It was a simple question - what will the US accomplish with sanctions, if things come to a head?

 

[ejaz007]

Sanction have never been the solution to a problem. Infact sanctions at times become blessing in disguise.
Take the example of Zimbabwe it is under sanctions and criticized for its actions but nothing is working ever thought why. Because world has lost its influence by imposing sanctions. Zimbabwe has already lost and there is nothing more it can loose so it doest care what world thinks. Government of Zimbabwe does what it wishes to do merely because world powers have used the last option first and are left with no cards to play except attacking.
Now coming to Pakistan. Pakistan of 2008 is different from Pakistan of 1980's. It has healthy foreign reserves of 12 billion as against 300 million in 1998. It was under sanction throughout 80's and 90's and it did not crash as was expected. In fact in some areas it did quite well. For example we wont have JF-17's if sanctions were not imposed. We still would be flying 60-70 F-16 and would have been happy with it. We still would be using US, French or British equipment and not thinking about indiginous production. We still would be worried about US aid and not thinking about investment instead of aid. We still be receiving foreign remittances through hundi and not through legal channels. Our foreign remitances from overseas Pakistanis alone amount to around 3.5 billion dollars or perhaps more.
So in short Pakistan won't suffer the way some believe.
As far as military option is concerned the only possibility I see is of air strikes been conducted on selected targets to eliminate our nuclear and missile capability but that too is slim. At present US is stuck badly in Iraq and Afghanistan and opening another front seems unlikely. Iran is also considered a greater threat than Pakistan so its their number not ours. Atleast not yet.

 

[cactuslily58]

I agree on the point that military strikes are quite out of the Q. While non military actions are later overlooked in light of national interests, direct military action is not forgotten at least by us Asians. Despite everything, India has not forgotten 1962 or the presence of the 7th Fleet in the Bay of Bengal in Dec '71, these events will forever temper thoughts & relations.

The repercussions of a Military strike are too severe, not coz Pakistan is a Nuclear Power but in so doing US would almost irrevocably burn its bridges with the only ' friend & ally' it has in these parts not to mention the turbulence & repercussions in the Muslim world ( & oil prices).

Secondly, there is no comparison with Pakistan & Zimbabwe & there must never be.Even at its worst Pakistan can & will never reach that stage. If it were to hypothetically ever reach that stage, internal / regional pressures which are very strong will almost tear it apart.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Just to clarify - hypothetically, both military actions and sanctions against Pakistan would be in pursuit of greater cooperation from Pakistan or/and destroying AQ capabilities.

Currently, the democratically elected GoP is not pursuing a more aggressive policy against the Taliban because of domestic compulsions - the electorate is in favor of dialog, and there is a lot of anti-American sentiment, which will only end up increasing as Pakistanis perceive the US as imposing a second round of "unjust sanctions".

Therefore sanctions do nothing to bring about a change in Pakistani policy, so long as that policy is determined by the electorate.

The best bet for the US to get short term cooperation is to prop up someone who will tow the US line completely, but then you continue to alienate the electorate, and cause instability through perpetuating the rule of a deeply unpopular and undemocratic leader.
That is what the US has done in Egypt and Algeria, and the results are not pretty at all.

The best solution is thinking long term, and keeping up enough pressure (quietly) on the GoP to make sure it doesn't capitulate to the militants entirely in FATA (and hope that it sees reason and acts strongly on its own), while developing and improving the relationship with the Pakistani nation and its democratic and civil institutions, rather than just the military.

The US will achieve nothing in Pakistan, long term and unless it undermines the very values it purports to support, with strong-arm tactics.