Does the USA want to destroy Pakistan

[VCheng]

The implication is that America either wants a subservient Pakistan that follows its orders, or broken weaker states formed from Pakistan

The correct conclusion is that Pakistan does only what serves Pakistan's interests as it sees them. As does USA.

 

[omegared]

exactly
which is why US gave 500 million for f-16 maintenance
also why Pak is still in the FATF list
also why Pak is still a MNNA

They also took our money for F16 and gave us corn instead,
Since then they have not been particular helpful when it comes to F16s,
Dragging feet as much as possible and being a hindrance more than a help.
Even now after getting their way with regime change, they gave peanuts of allowing maintenance of existing F16s.
They blocked the sale of Turkish Helicopters with USA engines.

 

[VCheng]

They also took our money for F16 and gave us corn instead,

Because Pakistan decided to "have a blast" party instead, if you remember.

 

[omegared]

This all was allowed once the generals followed the orders of Washington

There are interviews online of Americans themselves admitting to removing elements within the ISI and military that were against serving American interests.

It was also very well explained in a book named "No exit from Pakistan: America's tortured relationship with Islamabad"

You Nailed it, we should at least show some caution with the Americans.

So you expect USA to just give Pakistan billions and billions and then let Pakistan do whatever it wishes? If Pakistan turns down US assistance, it is then free to do as it pleases. That is how the world works in international geopolitics.

They gave us billions, but we lost many more billions .
We never had a choice, it was stand with us or against us,
Or we will bomb you back into the stone age.

They never let Pakistan do what it wishes,
When one leader tried, he was warned he would be replaced, then he was.

Because Pakistan decided to "have a blast" party instead, if you remember.

Please clarify, I'm lost.

 

[VCheng]

They gave us billions, but we lost many more billions .
We never had a choice, it was stand with us or against us,
Or we will bomb you back into the stone age.

They never let Pakistan do what it wishes,
When one leader tried, he was warned he would be replaced, then he was.

Then why did not Pakistan turn down those billions?
That choice was only given after 9/11.
Pakistan has always been free to follow its national interests.
And it still is.

Please clarify, I'm lost.

Pakistan was told very clearly not to detonate a nuclear bomb. But Pakistan was free to do as it wished. The rest is history.

 

[Corruptistan]

Pakistan and the Pakistani institutions and so-called Pakistani elite is "made in the West" and a Western invention mostly. From the very beginning to this day. Nothing has changed.

So the answer is obviously a no.

However what they want is a reliable/allied nation that puts its own national interests to the side in order to serve the Western interests first and foremost. Which we saw in Afghanistan under Musharraf and the failed "war on terror". That and Pakistan moving away/not allgning fully with China.

Anyway nobody, whether China or West, want the collapse of a nuclear armed and almost 250 million big nation. Combined with the state of Afghanistan, this is one of the last things that anybody wants to see.

And the corrupt political mafia dynasties and the neutrals don't care who they are backing (although they and their families have always preferred the West) as long as outside ties can help them maintain status quo.

 

[VCheng]

Pakistan and the Pakistani institutions and so-called Pakistani elite is "made in the West" and a Western invention mostly. From the very beginning to this day. Nothing has changed.

Does anyone force Pakistani elite to go to the West? They are free to go where they wish to go. It is their own choice, not anyone else's.

 

[Zornix]

The US has given Pakistan BILLIONS of dollars of aid and basically sat back and watched while Pakistan acquired nukes, so yes, the US indeed does want to destroy Pakistan.

 

[Corruptistan]

Does anyone force Pakistani elite to go to the West? They are free to go where they wish to go. It is their own choice, not anyone else's.

No, which is exactly my whole point.

Pakistan is much more closely tied, on almost every front, and has always been so since its merger as a nation state, with the West, than it has been/is/will be, with say China.

For starters, how many Pakistanis on PDF are based let alone born and breed in China, compared to the West?

Which language are we using to communicate? English or Mandarin.

Anyway I am just stating the obvious.

The US has given Pakistan BILLIONS of dollars of aid and basically sat back and watched while Pakistan acquired nukes, so yes, the US indeed does want to destroy Pakistan.

Some more hard truths.

This mythical idea of Pakistan (at least the Pakistani elites that have ruled the country from 1947 until today) somehow being anti-West, is one of the biggest myths out there. Pakistanis love the West and almost everything Western. To the point that millions of us are based in the very same West.

 

[VCheng]

No, which is exactly my whole point.

Pakistan is much more closely tied, on almost every front, and has always been so since its merger as a nation state, with the West, than it has been/is/will be, with say China.

For starters, how many Pakistanis on PDF are based let alone born and breed in China, compared to the West?

Which language are we using to communicate? English or Mandarin.

Anyway I am just stating the obvious.

And then there is CPEC. And Pakistanis are free to study in China and learn Mandarin. It is their choice what to do,. Clearly.

 

[Corruptistan]

And then there is CPEC. And Pakistanis are free to study in China and learn Mandarin. It is their choice what to do,. Clearly.

Exactly. And the Pakistani elites that have been ruling the country since 1947 until today and most of the Pakistani people lucky/able to afford to leave Pakistan, have long ago made their choices pretty clear. The West is the preferred destination, not China. I don't see that ever changing to be frank.

But if somehow the combined West turn hostile to the same Pakistani "elites", I am sure that they would do everything in their power to maintain their grip of the country and if that means selling out to China instead of the US, they will do just that.

 

[omegared]

The correct conclusion is that Pakistan does only what serves Pakistan's interests as it sees them. As does USA.

The Correct conclusion is Pakistan is easily coerced to do the bidding of the USA and rarely follows it own interest.

Then why did not Pakistan turn down those billions?
That choice was only given after 9/11.
Pakistan has always been free to follow its national interests.
And it still is.

So when they forced us to follow their bidding,
But its Pakistan fault, as they should have rejected the Peanuts?

 

[VCheng]

Exactly. And the Pakistani elites that have been ruling the country since 1947 until today and most of the Pakistani people lucky/able to afford to leave Pakistan, have long ago made their choices pretty clear. The West is preferred to the China. I don't see that ever changing to be frank.

But if somehow the combined West turn hostile to the same Pakistani "elites", I am sure that they would do everything in their power to maintain their grip of the country and if that means selling out to China instead of the US, they will do just that.

It is all up to what Pakistan and Pakistanis decide to do. It is totally up to them, no one else.

 

[Abid123]

"Destroy" is not the right world. Following the invasion of Afghanistan part of their goal was to destabilize Pakistan. This is the reason why the CIA funds terrorist groups in Balochistan.

 

[VCheng]

The Correct conclusion is Pakistan is easily coerced to do the bidding of the USA and rarely follows it own interest.

So when they forced us to follow their bidding,
But its Pakistan fault, as they should have rejected the Peanuts?

There is no coercion here. Pakistan was, is and will remain free to do whatever it wants to do. Blaming any one else is simply dishonest.