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US wants India's help in fighting Baitullah Mehsud: Holbrooke

I for one is a strong advocate of putting Indian army in afganistan. Not only to fight the terrorist treath, but it expands Indians influence in the region, especially towards Pakistan. And also by doing so, puts Pakistan on edge of not responding accurately to the mumbai attacks as well as stoping the proxy war that is being waged for years. Here is blogger with the same sentiments.

However, the threat of sending Indian troops to Afghanistan would do a decent job of keeping Pakistan off-balance. And, at least for the moment, that is what New Delhi and Washington want, to intimidate Pakistan into giving up its militant proxies. Time will tell if the Indians actually put the Afghan option into practice, but the Pakistanis are certainly keeping watch.

Free Article for Non-Members | STRATFOR
 
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I for one is a strong advocate of putting Indian army in afganistan. Not only to fight the terrorist treath, but it expands Indians influence in the region, especially towards Pakistan. And also by doing so, puts Pakistan on edge of not responding accurately to the mumbai attacks as well as stoping the proxy war that is being waged for years. Here is blogger with the same sentiments.

Quote:However, the threat of sending Indian troops to Afghanistan would do a decent job of keeping Pakistan off-balance. And, at least for the moment, that is what New Delhi and Washington want, to intimidate Pakistan into giving up its militant proxies. Time will tell if the Indians actually put the Afghan option into practice, but the Pakistanis are certainly keeping watch.

Free Article for Non-Members | STRATFOR

I say let the Indians come in Afghanistan and let them feel strong as we let US and Nato.
Then Ditch them so hard that they wont even have chance to escape .

Look India is not US neither Sovietunion and neither it has that versatile milletery hardware neither booming economy as the US or Nato has to support such kind of milletary expansion without the will of reagional players China , Iran & Pakistan.
 
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Indian Army In Afghanistan? A God sent -- and God Speed, bring them in ASAP.

Pakistan's problems in Afghanistan will be solved by this, this is why I don't think it will happen, though I wish it would and ASAP:cheers:
 
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I for one is a strong advocate of putting Indian army in afganistan. Not only to fight the terrorist treath, but it expands Indians influence in the region, especially towards Pakistan. And also by doing so, puts Pakistan on edge of not responding accurately to the mumbai attacks as well as stoping the proxy war that is being waged for years. Here is blogger with the same sentiments.

I think you are being a bit too optimistic do you think Indian soldiers will be splashed with rose petals and red carpet to welcome them to take on terrorists if America the most advanced nation is having a hard time to control Afghanistan, i don't think you shining Hindustani army will stand a chance and before you think of putting Pakistan cornered sorry it will take a couple of nukes to wipe the smile of your face. what has this got to do with Mumbai you need to answer questions of why is your government is funding Baitullah mehsud your pet dog and supporting insurgency in Baluchistan to destabilize Pakistan you cant have it both ways.
 
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Indian Army In Afghanistan? A God sent -- and God Speed, bring them in ASAP.

Pakistan's problems in Afghanistan will be solved by this, this is why I don't think it will happen, though I wish it would and ASAP:cheers:

And How so Mr. Muse?
 
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Jeypore

Are there any peoples who like foreign soldiers on their soil? -- See, it's a structural problem -- it's built into what Faujis are and what not just civilians but tribal society in which various ethnicities are not competing for advantage but rather a brutish competition for Power.

In such a situation, various vacuums are created and will be filled. Such a act will hasten the general acceptance that it may be more advantageous to consider Afghanistan as a land mass than as referring to a Nation state.
 
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Jeypore

Are there any peoples who like foreign soldiers on their soil? -- See, it's a structural problem -- it's built into what Faujis are and what not just civilians but tribal society in which various ethnicities are not competing for advantage but rather a brutish competition for Power.

In such a situation, various vacuums are created and will be filled. Such a act will hasten the general acceptance that it may be more advantageous to consider Afghanistan as a land mass than as referring to a Nation state.

First of all my views are biased towards India in term it's involvement in Afganistan. India's larger role in Afganistan will affect Pakistan and there future strategies. You are mentioning that Afganistan is state/country, in my view it is not. Majority is still control by the talibans. In 1996, if you remember, when the talibans were in control. India did not consider taliban power of Afganistan, only three countries did at that time, they were Pakistan, saudia Arbia, and UAE.

Likewise, today for Karzia gov't, India is strategic importance, and for India it is a gateway to energy rich central Asia, since China is beating India on this already. I find nothing wrong in india playing a larger role in Afgainstan, but most probably this will not happen because we truly have a very weak gov't, who believes in playing soft power role towards afganistan and pakistan then actual dedications of eliminating terrorist threat to Inida.
 
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Oh we know that BM is your paid goon! So we will just be sending him home to Bharat Mata!

We do not want India destroyed! Just suffer some more like its already doing at the hands of car bombings, Muslim Riots, Christian killings etc etc etc. BM will just the fuel to the fire in your backyard, like make it a bit more interesting!

And please, we are much better off here in Pakistan then the homeless bastards sleeping on your footpaths!!

epool the homeless are everywhere and if you have roamed in downtown manhattan you would know that US is not free of it too ..... and anyways being homeless is inherent to every misfortunate and they definitey do not deserve to be called names for it .......

as for what is better ...... its true that at times the ghetto mentality of Indian muslims and lack of education or the will to educate them selves has led them astray at times, yet at other times, they have maintained their identity and loyalty to their homeland which is India and enjoy rights of any other citizen including violent protests which you call the riots ...

the condition India is presently needs improvement and the same is coming slowly yet steadily. US too has 10-15% of its own kids extremely malnourished ... a number likely to significantly enhance due to latest economic downturn and layoffs and dependency on food stamps which may not exactly adress malnourishment ...
 
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H2O3C4Nitrogen


If India entered Afghanistan it will comit sucide for its forces As Indian forces neither match that of the Soviets nor to The westren Forces, A true fact based on counter insurgency and gurilla warefare skills & capability .


Ah well here even US will beg to differ with your perception with regards to skills which India has in insurgency and jungle warfare (in latter at times considered second only to Vietnam) with US forces undergoing exposure in CIJW (Counter Insurgency & Jungle Warfare School) Vairangte, Mizoram which is the home of Indian Army jungle warfare and counter insurgency training. IA has over 50 years of exposure in CI grid and is successfully running operations in largest deployment in CI environment today in J&K and over 2 decades of exposure in fighting Pakistan based groups (the same trainers who trained the people in Afghan war acted here) and not landing in a situation of Soviets .....

The Hindu : Other States / Mizoram News : India, U.S. begin military exercise in Mizoram

Both American and Nato forces are entageled in the most deadliest Gurilla war in which failure is inevitable .

If you look at the objectives given to US-NATO forces in Afghanistan, they seem to be winning. The objective was to ensure a stable central government and allow developmental activities to progress by providing maximum security .... while you will undoubtedly argue that they dont control 70% land etc etc and are engaged in daily fire fights, the very inherent character of CI grid allows for the same and is the key to reversing the insurgency. By providing a relatively safe space for development to progress, the political objective is achieved and that means its a victory and not a defeat. Any military objective is an extension of the foreign policy and the political will. Your victory or defeat are measured on parameters of attainment of your objectives or the failure to do so. If you read about NATO forces mandate they have succeeded to a much larger extent than was expected by majority of people

American wana exit Afghanistan and for that they want to hand this mess to some reliable reagional partner which is India . They didnt made Strategik nuclear deal or offerd its Patriot Missile defence system to India for no reason. It formed the basis to engage Delhi to provide its forces in afghanistan so that the Coalition Forces could get exit ticket out of Afghanistan.

US will not be exiting nor NATO ..... whether India enters or not remains to be seen ...... but if state of pakistan is imminently going to collapse, you may find IA being inducted and it has the necessar infrastructure and forces to sustain combat operations there.

The ball is in India's court and now its up to her to decide that weather to take such a huge gambel of sending its forces to afghanistan in return of red hot US milletary and Technological and Deplomatic assistance or not .

That is to be decided upon how Pakistan manages in next few months and not on US largesse ...... the only aspect of US which India needs right now is cooperation ......and US has been very cooperative and supportive.



Conditions are to some extent Feasable for Indian forces to enter afghanistan as it did enjoyed good relations with Afghanistan . That is the reason why US is ready to talk to some talibans .
To lay the foundations for India in Afghanistan at the same time having some kind of Influence in the Reagion through Indian Presence.
The upcoming elections in Afghanistan will be vital for this plan to be executed



India would not like to place troops until and unless PA totally fails at the task at hand and there is imminent threat of shift of focus into Kashmir and India ...... US will also ensure that this does not happen ....... whether PA or GoP or you like it or not ...... today PA has no option but to fight or Pakistan is doomed and then there shall be entry of foreign troops into Pakistan, howsoever high the casualty rate or length of induction may be ..... for non nation here can allow nukes to fall into unscrupulous hands
 
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I for one is a strong advocate of putting Indian army in afganistan. Not only to fight the terrorist treath, but it expands Indians influence in the region, especially towards Pakistan. And also by doing so, puts Pakistan on edge of not responding accurately to the mumbai attacks as well as stoping the proxy war that is being waged for years. Here is blogger with the same sentiments.

jeypore

while a rambo approach seems to fit in with our image of being a power, any nation with ambitions to be a reasonable power has to be sensible and crafty. IA should not and would not enter afghanistan until and unless Pakistan fails.

today the PA is fighting on our behalf and unwittingly is our biggest ally and the war is being fought in Pakistani cities and towns ..... not on Indian land ..... the collateral damage is Pakistani not Indian ..... the blood being bled is again not Indian ..... sad as it may be, we must commend the common Pakistani soldier who is defending his homeland today and his right to live the life he is living.

entry of IA into afghanistan will lead to:

1. Unification of all variable groups/tribes into one which is not wanted.

2. Loss of a reason for justification of PA officers to men on why ops are being conducted agaisnt whom they consider their bretheren ..... thus weakening the war effort of PA

3. general sympathy for the groups within indian muslims who may see the intervention as support of indians for the christian world .... something which will give a purely political move a religious overtone
 
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I can state this quite clearly, the Day India enter's Afghanistan, that is the day Pakistan's problems vanish overnight. India is not stupid, she knows it is in her interest to keep remote control but not full on engagement.

Keep in mind that nations far more developed and long standing members of NATO are not willing to committ additional troops to Afghanistan. The French are pulling out, the British are pulling out, the Italian's are pulling out, the Germans have reduced troop numbers, the Polish ?(well they only have a few hundred troops based there).

The only serious players are the British and US, with the British shutting down from Bagram and the US taking over at Camp Charlie that leaves a very large area open for the Taliban to move around in.

It is widly known that the Afghan National Police Force is heavily corrupt and invloved with the Taliban War Lords in the region, the Army is weak and cannot operate without US covering their *** outside Kabul.

Lack of airial cover leaves ground troops vulnerable to a very battle hardened and numerically superior force. The Karzai government has failed to woo the hearts of Afghan's outside Kabul and the ordinary man in places such as Kunar (hence the very large US troop commitment there and S2 can fill you in on that side of things).

The US with all its resources, experience, technology and cunning, cannot seem to qwell this band of rabble. And the reason lies in the power of the "poppy", we have a saying in Pakistan regarding Afghan's (ye agar charas or hafeem oga saktey hain to phir challi ka kya kam) (translation= if these guys can grow opium then who should they bother selling corn).

And it is the blunt truth... The Taliban need resources and funds, so do the poor villagers. Well now the Taliban have struck a very cosy deal with the Farmers and Villagers, grow the poppy and pay us religious tax (call it jagar tax/protection money) if you may and we will ensure the Feringi (westerners) don't bother you.

Trust me my indian friends, we have been dealing with these snakes for a very long time, longer then you all have been in cahoots with the NA... So trust us when we say, this aint no cakewalk.

Anyway, if you do come along for the ride... Hope you enjoy it... :D
 
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"Keep in mind that nations far more developed and long standing members of NATO are not willing to committ additional troops to Afghanistan. The French are pulling out, the British are pulling out, the Italian's are pulling out, the Germans have reduced troop numbers, the Polish ?(well they only have a few hundred troops based there).

The only serious players are the British and US, with the British shutting down from Bagram and the US taking over at Camp Charlie that leaves a very large area open for the Taliban to move around in."


This is the current ORBAT for ISAF-

Order of Battle ISAF-Feb. 2009

IIRC, there are 28 battalion-sized battlegroups in-country. You can see by region who, what, and where specifically. Nobody of consequence is departing before the Dutch and Canadians in the final one-third of 2010.

That's fifteen months away. Until then, you'll see a GROWTH in troops and trainers to the extent that they can be sustained. Remember, their log line competes with the log line of a growing ANA and ANP.

This is reflected in operations at hand now. Heretofore, the Brits had NEVER been south of Garmsir town. EVER. In a province that, by itself, produces two-thirds of Afghanistan's opium and is adjacent to Baluchistan that has been impossible for them. They've been utterly engaged in Sangin, Musa Qala, Lashkar Gar and Garmsir.

That's changed. For the first time ever, they've run a significant reconnaissance-in-force well into Garmsir district. One look at google will tell you how extensive the lands CONTROLLED by the taliban are from Garmsir south to the Pakistani border.

Totally. So too the Canadians in Kandahar. By themselves, these provinces account for 75-80% of Afghanistan's opium.

I think controlled is fair. If ISAF has never been there, how else can it be? That's now changed and it promises to be a very hot spring, summer, and fall in Helmand and Kandahar.

The hottest yet.

Here too is where the fight is...other than the Kabul-Jalalabad corridor and it's approaches and it's a much different fight. Almost claustrophobic in those tight Hindu Kush valleys.

Not so in the south. Wide-open spaces needing a helluva lot more troops. They'll be getting them.

By August, R.R., we expect 825 C-17 sorties monthly in Kandahar. At 23,000 ft. that 5300 miles hauling 65 tons. One in-flight refuel and that plane is stateside to Kandahar non-stop.

I think it equates to a ton of supplies per American soldier in Afghanistan.

What happens after 2010 is hard to say. Even the Dutch have said they won't rule out another location within Afghanistan. I think that we'll be there longer than most Pakistanis can imagine.

Finally-the ANA by every account I've read is respected as an army. Our trainers are satisfied with their work to date. More encouraging, so too our combat commanders in adjacent locales.

They're good if limited by a non-existent log chain and no aviation of note, etc. AND they'll be growing as quickly as is feasible.

ANP? Who really knows? If it can be turned, corruption anywhere in Afghanistan can also be defeated.

JMHO.:agree:
 
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Spot on white_pawn. Whilst Taliban/AQ are a grave threat, we all know that the Americans are here to exploit and destroy each and every country in the neighbourhood. After all, it were these same Americans that created the menace of Mujahideen. Both problems need to be addressed on an equal stance. The Americans aren't spending billions of dollars for spreading democracy for free. The Americans are fulfilling the role of devious a snake by choosing sides when it suites them. They are only here to loot forcefully. I'm sure the Indians understand this as well. The Indians shouldn't fall for short-term gains and greed. Everyone knows that the American offers are tempting like drugs, but also attached with a zillion strings. If the Indians are really interested in a peaceful region they should extend their hand and act in the best interest of the region. The Indians need to show character and lead by example. The Indians like all other regional countries have a lot more at stake for having a peaceful region. Differences will have to be put aside and all parties involved will have to work towards prosperity for the region as a whole. Not an easy task, but nonetheless one that serves everyone equally. Hostility will lead to no good and the region including India will suffer. However, I seriously doubt that the Indians would ever sacrifice and put their short-term benefits aside for the sake of the region. It will require extraordinary measures and courage.

baburCM sir,
your completely right, because there are certain issues between most of the countires in the region here, but as mentioned by your if the issues are kept aside for some time the all the countires work towards stabality and peace in the region will increase mutual understanding between countries and the issues will get the sorted out in no time.

And this is was some western countries dont want to happen, bcoz this will be against their intrest.
 
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epool the homeless are everywhere and if you have roamed in downtown manhattan you would know that US is not free of it too ..... and anyways being homeless is inherent to every misfortunate and they definitey do not deserve to be called names for it .......

as for what is better ...... its true that at times the ghetto mentality of Indian muslims and lack of education or the will to educate them selves has led them astray at times, yet at other times, they have maintained their identity and loyalty to their homeland which is India and enjoy rights of any other citizen including violent protests which you call the riots ...

the condition India is presently needs improvement and the same is coming slowly yet steadily. US too has 10-15% of its own kids extremely malnourished ... a number likely to significantly enhance due to latest economic downturn and layoffs and dependency on food stamps which may not exactly adress malnourishment ...

Hellfire! I partially agree with your assessment above. My response was not to degrade the conditions of the homeless in India but was mainly to counter the ''self-righteous/ holier-than-thou'' comments from Torpedo! Further discourse on your assessment above will tend to throw the discussion on a tangent to the subject at hand! So let us have this chat some other time and in another thread!
 
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This is a difficult war but, please, let's not resort to hyperbole when describing NATO's experience.


sir --- we all have an interest to see Afghanistan stabilize!! Guerilla warfare needs to be fought using guerilla tactics. At present, this is not happening.

The drugs and weapons business is still flourishing in Afghanistan. It is having detrimental impact on other countries like Pakistan and even Iran. More importantly, the ransoms -extortions and drugs cash is funding the terrorism. This is just like the situation in Mexico --where the cartels are causing serious law & order (and humanitarian) problem.

America needs to learn something here. They need to learn that their recent language regarding Pakistan is not appreciated. I cant ever remember in my youth that even the elite people are becoming critical of USA. Americans also need to understand that they cannot keep flip-flopping on issues. I also blame the western media for failing to give Pakistan's side of the story.

Now they are making Afghanistan look like Pakistan's victim. As if we are the villains (we meaning the people). They are saying we are radicalized this and that. It's all garbage, but the story sells.



While there have been 1,065 Coalition deaths, let's remember that's over seven and one-half years and countless troops who've been actually deployed.

Pakistan has lost over 1,600 soldiers. And to add to it, we have bomb blasts in our cities. You are in a luxurious position. You can just pack up and leave whenever you want. America is not under threat. But South and Central Asia is.

We've great respect for our opponent. He uses the tools at hand to great effect. But there is true assymetry.

I dont respect them. They fight like cowards. The only guerilla force I respect is Hezbollah. Because they are honourable fighters. Nationalists defending the holy motherland. Not bearded whack-jobs who woke up one day and decided they have moral authority to dictate --and at the same time spread their drugs and hatred.

fucck that.


i just wish those Goddam bloody soviets never marched into Kabul decades ago, thats all i can say.


Tough opponent? Yes. Battle conditions exacerbated by near-unique terrain and social/cultural multipliers?

absolutely.....

and for centuries, Afghanistan has never treated invaders well. Local support is so compulsory to win the war.




I don't underestimate my opponent. Please don't underestimate us nor overestimate the effect this enemy has upon our troops. They're soldiers and, collectively, we're losing LESS than one company per year in KIA. Sad but eminently bearable and hardly hellish.

i understand.

All i ask is that you dont view the ground realities using Western eyes. View it through our eyes as well.

We also have our own national interests and obligations. I am upset that Obama administation prefers to flip flop on issues, and is clearly showing indian bias.

Whether you like it or not, india is not our friend. They neednt be our enemy, but they are not our friend. Therefore, if American decide to even make mention of indian troops/missions in Afghanistan, it will not go down well in Islamabad or Rawalpindi.


and you can trust me on that....:coffee:
 
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