US wants India's help in fighting Baitullah Mehsud: Holbrooke

[Hellfire]

This needs no cooments and debate .
Get some education abt GeoPolitical Environment of this reagion.

what a lameduck rebuttal ..... have seen better attempts in a position of nontennability of positions.

 

[IceCold]

frankly pakistan is in no position today either militarily or economically to bargain ....... and US would rather twist who needs to be and not who is not required to be

Such a huge understatement but then again what more could we expect. I'll suggest take H2O3C4Nitrogen's advice seriously.

 

[Hellfire]

Such a huge understatement but then again what more could we expect. I'll suggest take H2O3C4Nitrogen's advice seriously.

well that can be a point of view ..... but it cant be the reality facing Pakistan today. Its a question of white washing the facts and turning a blind eye to whats happening within your own country. In the name of "peace" you have conviniently handed over Swat, Fata and now Buner on a platter to the radical thought processes which threaten to destroy the very fabric of Pakistan as it was known. I know you will say imposition of Sharia is a logical extension and no compromise as the existence of same within the state of Pakistan is not new. But do you really want to delude yourself with the same for is it not Sharia per se that has been accepted but their interpretation which devalues the very basic of human values and dignity that an average citizen of Pakistan has come to take for granted and cherished?

Deep within even the GoP realises that inspite of its bold attempts to put up a brave front, its very existence as an administration is now being challenged and it finds itself increasingly unable to cope with this menace that threatens to engulf the cities and towns of Pakistan with militants attacking at will and with impunity! It also faces the dilemma of having to take economic assistance in order to mitigate the effects of an already troubled economy reeling under the dual impact of global financial problems and increased levels of violence and loss of investor confidence in Pakistani economy and balancing it with the desires of a radical group which is anti to the very nations which are crucial for Pakistan's economic survival in the present time.

If you think by using terminology of geopolitics etc, you become a person who appreciates the nuances of the same then you are sadly mistaken. It takes a deep and educated understanding on factors influencing geopolitical affairs and the influence or potential thereof a nation can weild on affairs around it.

The only strong point Pakistan has today, is its importance in containing the threat posed by this rabid ideology which is threatening the very nature of Islam and its teaching as millions of educated Muslims know it, and to kowtow to the same just because you dont have the guts to take them onwill be the tragedy that millions will have to pay for with their life and rights to life.

 

[IceCold]

well that can be a point of view ..... but it cant be the reality facing Pakistan today. Its a question of white washing the facts and turning a blind eye to whats happening within your own country. In the name of "peace" you have conviniently handed over Swat, Fata and now Buner on a platter to the radical thought processes which threaten to destroy the very fabric of Pakistan as it was known. I know you will say imposition of Sharia is a logical extension and no compromise as the existence of same within the state of Pakistan is not new. But do you really want to delude yourself with the same for is it not Sharia per se that has been accepted but their interpretation which devalues the very basic of human values and dignity that an average citizen of Pakistan has come to take for granted and cherished?

Deep within even the GoP realises that inspite of its bold attempts to put up a brave front, its very existence as an administration is now being challenged and it finds itself increasingly unable to cope with this menace that threatens to engulf the cities and towns of Pakistan with militants attacking at will and with impunity! It also faces the dilemma of having to take economic assistance in order to mitigate the effects of an already troubled economy reeling under the dual impact of global financial problems and increased levels of violence and loss of investor confidence in Pakistani economy and balancing it with the desires of a radical group which is anti to the very nations which are crucial for Pakistan's economic survival in the present time.

If you think by using terminology of geopolitics etc, you become a person who appreciates the nuances of the same then you are sadly mistaken. It takes a deep and educated understanding on factors influencing geopolitical affairs and the influence or potential thereof a nation can weild on affairs around it.

The only strong point Pakistan has today, is its importance in containing the threat posed by this rabid ideology which is threatening the very nature of Islam and its teaching as millions of educated Muslims know it, and to kowtow to the same just because you dont have the guts to take them onwill be the tragedy that millions will have to pay for with their life and rights to life.

First of all it wasn't given on platter as you always like to put it but for a very different reason People did not wanted army over there, they said they will take care of the mess, however that is not important at this time. Moreover as for the Sharia law, it was something people of SWAT wanted, and hence we went according to the public wishes and not because taliban wanted it.
The problem with people like you sitting out side is that you cannot and will not understand the complexities involved in those areas. They have always been semi autonomous from the existence of Pakistan and there never has been a problem until now. GOP and the army has to go with the popular wishes in that area. You cannot win a war where the local population does not support you and in order to gain their support, one has to make sacrifices and that is exactly what we are doing, and there are numerous articles/news stating where such strategy has worked, people stood up against the Talibans and started supporting PA even took arms them selves to drive Taliban out(now don't come up with why are the locals being armed).
The problem occurs when a US drone comes in and attacks, kills maybe one or two terrorists and more civilians in the process in the name of collateral damage and that is counter productive to what we have achieved so far. People who would support the PA otherwise are strongly against such strikes and hence back to square one taliban gain popularity.
You know it is very easy to sit outside and access the situation based on internet and media and then make a mind of your own, however reality is far from what you have in your mind. I don't expect you to understand, you never will, however don't expect us to share your vision either.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

look their are ample ways i can proov same for india which you can for Pakistan but to me its simply childish and unproductive and waste of time and energy. Plz dont engage in a battle of earning points to proove each other countries bad and unable to govern it self .
Both Pakistan and India have many loopholes from which many Global Powers sneak in and try to play with the Govs of both countries .
I felt so bad that india they couldnt mustered up courage to host IPL there but you know that for every action there is a reaction and it were the Indian Cricket fans who considered Cricket as their Religion suffered in the end.
PLZ wake up dont allow yourself to be USED by some superpower half a million miles away for the sake of its tyrany from your borders instead contribute towards the establishment of friendly relations with countries which surround you.
This is how europe recovered after the 2nd world war If they can then why cant we.

 

[Hellfire]

First of all it wasn't given on platter as you always like to put it but for a very different reason People did not wanted army over there, they said they will take care of the mess, however that is not important at this time. Moreover as for the Sharia law, it was something people of SWAT wanted, and hence we went according to the public wishes and not because taliban wanted it.
The problem with people like you sitting out side is that you cannot and will not understand the complexities involved in those areas. They have always been semi autonomous from the existence of Pakistan and there never has been a problem until now. GOP and the army has to go with the popular wishes in that area. You cannot win a war where the local population does not support you and in order to gain their support, one has to make sacrifices and that is exactly what we are doing, and there are numerous articles/news stating where such strategy has worked, people stood up against the Talibans and started supporting PA even took arms them selves to drive Taliban out(now don't come up with why are the locals being armed).
The problem occurs when a US drone comes in and attacks, kills maybe one or two terrorists and more civilians in the process in the name of collateral damage and that is counter productive to what we have achieved so far. People who would support the PA otherwise are strongly against such strikes and hence back to square one taliban gain popularity.
You know it is very easy to sit outside and access the situation based on internet and media and then make a mind of your own, however reality is far from what you have in your mind. I don't expect you to understand, you never will, however don't expect us to share your vision either.

In summation, the rule of law and writ of Pakistan in form of GoP and PA does not extend to these areas ? Now the movement of Talibs in to Haripur has been reported ..... what of that? Again the people want that interpretation to dominate? kindly do clarify as an outsider what I fail to understand of this "wish" of the common people.

 

[Hellfire]

look their are ample ways i can proov same for india which you can for Pakistan but to me its simply childish and unproductive and waste of time and energy. Plz dont engage in a battle of earning points to proove each other countries bad and unable to govern it self .
Both Pakistan and India have many loopholes from which many Global Powers sneak in and try to play with the Govs of both countries .
I felt so bad that india they couldnt mustered up courage to host IPL there but you know that for every action there is a reaction and it were the Indian Cricket fans who considered Cricket as their Religion suffered in the end.
PLZ wake up dont allow yourself to be USED by some superpower half a million miles away for the sake of its tyrany from your borders instead contribute towards the establishment of friendly relations with countries which surround you.
This is how europe recovered after the 2nd world war If they can then why cant we.

which superpower used India in IPL hosting? This will not be a delusion also for that needs an external stimuli. Here there is an absence so its pure hallucination. The reason was the corporates were to face losses which were too large to be ignored by IPL governing body and so they moved as central government was unable to provide for adequate secuirty forces for these which were coinciding with general elections .... now if you cant comprehend this aspect and corelate it with events then I cant help you. Its no geopolitic here!

 

[batmannow]

batmannow:

Sir.

A.let me clear your mind a bit,most of the timmes PA keep secret, its opreational activities,from our political authority , you can name it ! all the opreations against "soviet forces", even the "kargill war" & its whole opreational activities never been discussed with the prime minster thn?
he was told about the basics but , not all opreational activities!

I did point out that to be the case. A military op is planned and executed based on political directive in demoracies. But then as I pointed out PA has history of undermining it so SOP may differ there, a statement you have concurred with I see. As for information to PM of Afghan war, let me refresh you that at the time it was a military dictator who was in power (someone known as Gen Zia-ul-Haq) so the question of not telling the PM about anti-Soviet operations is irrelevant and if you mean to say information was withheld from the General then you are far off course. Also you claim facts of Kargil being similar. Well Gen Musharraf claimed to have kept the PM abreast of situations at every minute. So either you dont know what you are saying or he does not know. As for your iminent defense in terms of emplacement of your weapons/type of force employed etc, that even the Brigade Commander is not told when he gives a task to a CO of a unit to achieve.



so therefore your , info about PA is very wrong.

actually no. I did highlight the probability of PA not acting under political directive.

its good to have you on fourm , your are a educated , & somehow logical brain but , many of your knowledge is purly bassed on the the things , which you read on line or , from the books.

thank you for the compliments sir. yes am pretty well read but not online. you are welcome to initiate a military discussion where we can discuss concept of operations in any sector you choose to. Am sure you shall find am able to keep up to quite an extent.


remember i asked you , a question ? did ever been to a SOS( special opreation school), you never gave any answer ?

if you want to discuss any training school of special or regular forces, name that and we can discuss.


i asked that question just because , i felt that your , info IS BASSED on the books or the articals , its surly not a info FROM a EX/ARMED forces , my dear sir!

I did say am not going to claim what am not. Am a dotor by profession and my profile defines me fully.

using all the combat skills with "lighiting speed & perfect accuracy" within a given time limit & to take enemy by surprize called "special opreation"? i guss , we are not disscussing political leadership & its role?
let me explore you, something !

I agree but my point was political directives leading onto discription of military objectives.

i had faced your special forces , in special kargill war!your '70 Infantry Brigade" or "9 Mahar Regiment"what really happeed in "Point 5090-metres in Dras(tiger hill)" or in "Point 5300-metres and 5329-metres in the Batalik sector" just find the people from above mentioned brigades or Regiments & try to learn something trully practical instead.
IT WAS JUST 5 UNITS OF PAKARMY, WHO YOU GUYS WERE FIGHTING , WITH 4 DIVISIONS OF IA?

Ok what part of 70 Infantry Bde/9 MAHAR is SF sir? Both are regular infantry formations. What arm exactly were you in sir? Please please do not say infantry.

Also am sure you dont really need a lengthy discussion on mountain and high altitude warfare and the ratio needed to be achieved to successfully attack a prepared defensive position in a terrain where no defilade is available to the attacking troops. In addition you really dont want me to sit and explain to you the reasons why this high ratio has to be achieved for extremely slow moving troops who are attacking a feature.

In the last of my posts in this thread i did mentioned that , they got the moves but still they lack in "speed & accuracy"

really sir? then why are you sitting below the glacier in Siachen till date in spite of being at war with India over it since 1984 whiile having an advantage of supplies coming by road right till base camp while India does air maintenance from Pratapur? why have not the "crack" PA troops managed to dislodge IA from features which have hardly 7-10 men each (section level) defending, till date?


what you think , INDIAN SPECIAL FORCES are better trained & better equiped thn of US SPECIAL FORCES fighting in afghanistan?
dear , sir
I am really not underestimating the capabillities of INDIA SF's, nor i am undermining thier skills , but its MISSION IMPOSIBLE for them , with no knowledge of languages, no know how of roads links, its only putting , those brave mans in the jaws of death with no way out.

actually you are now beating a tactical retreat dear sir.I am quite aware of Indian 9 SF ops in Chitral region during Kargil itself .......so really please enough with what you have given out. You cant really differentiate a bit between specialised forces/regular forces, then you go on to obfuscate things by claiming PA antecedants


i hope you understand, politics US needs someone's shoulder to fire the shots in afghanistan, where after all the B1's B52's, PREDATORS , f-22 , deep bunker busters bombs , MARINES CROPS, money bribes everything! they are lossing why?

and again you make the mistake of a novice ..... air power employment in high altitude is severely restricted by operating ceiling of said ACs as Kargil proved with shooting down of Mi-17, Mig-21, Mig27 leading to higher employment of ACs for protection and reducing the accuracy. Cost per weapon/benefit obtained for Paveway kits is too high for frequent employment in moutainous terrain.

i can asure you that our SSG wasnt involved , in any of terrorists activities in INDIA, I guss , both RAW & ISI never send thier armed forces personels , for the activities you had mentioned, with poverty leveling highst levels in both countries, its ezy to find poors to do the job , without any diplomatic difficulties, & prooflessness?

am sure they were not involved in 1965/71 also


It also shows , how much is your mind effected from the day to day bias articals & the cheap books, with antipakistan & antiISI propaganda.

Thanks for vote of faith[/QUOTE]

dear doctor, hellfire sir!

Q.Ok what part of 70 Infantry Bde/9 MAHAR is SF sir? Both are regular infantry formations. What arm exactly were you in sir? Please please do not say infantry.

Also am sure you dont really need a lengthy discussion on mountain and high altitude warfare and the ratio needed to be achieved to successfully attack a prepared defensive position in a terrain where no defilade is available to the attacking troops. In addition you really dont want me to sit and explain to you the reasons why this high ratio has to be achieved for extremely slow moving troops who are attacking a feature.

A.Special forces misused:
An operation launched by a Special Forces team under the 8 Mountain Division ground to a halt on a mountain feature called Sando Top when they were engaged by Pakistan’s Special Services Group. The Indian troops were found to be lacking in key equipment and the tasking was also questionable. Other SF units, which were deployed, were used as regular infantry battalions to capture features, a role they are neither equipped nor tasked for. This led to higher casualties and misuse of a strategic force.


Q.Well Gen Musharraf claimed to have kept the PM abreast of situations at every minute. So either you dont know what you are saying or he does not know.

plz prove the under line section , with good links!
i stand by , what i had said before, i guss reading books from rtd. genrals will never leed you in to reality, you need to be there, on the ground ,in the action! my friend.
And for this purpose , you need tobe in the army, your info is qiute good but, still you are far from the real battle field, i guss you can , change your profession & can join bollywood easily, with lots of money & fame. i guss , bollywood need your kind of educated producers, story makers.

Q.let me refresh you that at the time it was a military dictator who was in power (someone known as Gen Zia-ul-Haq) so the question of not telling the PM about anti-Soviet operations is irrelevant and if you mean to say information was withheld from the General then you are far off course.

A. Let me enlight your educated but illinformed mind that, at the time of "late shaheed president of pakistanGen Zia-ul-Haq", there was a primminster & his name was ?

Muhammad Khan Junejo
The Independent | News | UK and Worldwide News | Newspaper
by
AHMED RASHID
Friday, 19 March 1993


Khan Junejo, politician: born Sindhri, Sanghar District 18 August 1932; Prime Minister of Pakistan 1985- 89; President, Pakistan Muslim League 1986-93; married; died Baltimore 17 March 1993.
IN 1985 when Muhammad Khan Junejo, a virtually unknown landlord and politician, was picked to become Prime Minister of Pakistan by President Zia ul-Haq .
Junejo was born in Sindhri, a small village in District Sanghar in rural Sind where his family were the largest feudal landowners and his father a chief of the Junejo tribe. He studied at St Patrick's School in Karachi and then joined the Agricultural Institute at Hastings, in England, where he got a Diploma in Agriculture. He began his political career at the age of 22 when he followed his father's footsteps and was elected president of the Sanghar District Council in 1954. He joined the Muslim League Party and remained a loyal member all his life. He was elected a member of the then West Pakistan Provincial Assembly and during the martial law of President Ayub Khan in the 1960s he held several ministerial posts. He was minister for West Pakistan railways from 1965 to 1969.

Gen.Zia, who had banned political parties, allowed non-party elections to take place in February 1985, when Junejo was elected from his home seat. Gen.Zia then chose Junejo to be his prime minister, presuming that such a nondescript politician, who had no charisma and was barely known, would provide little opposition to Gen.Zia in ruling the country.

Sworn in as Prime Minister on 23 March 1985, Junejo immediately insisted that martial law be lifted and political parties be allowed to function. Martial law was lifted on 30 December 1985 and Gen.Zia finally allowed political parties in the assembly. Junejo faced his biggest political challenge when Benazir Bhutto, leader of the opposition Pakistan People's Party (PPP), returned from exile in London in 1986 and addressed massive rallies in which she promised to topple the government. Junejo handled the challenge with great skill, refusing to crack down on the PPP as Gen.Zia wanted him to do.

Differences with Gen.Zia and the army increased as Moscow announced its decision to withdraw Soviet troops from Afghanistan. Junejo summoned all political parties to a Round Table Conference, throwing Pakistan's weight behind UN efforts to mediate a Soviet withdrawal, even though Gen.Zia opposed the plan and wanted to use the Pakistan army to secure a Mujahedin victory in Afghanistan. Despite Gen.Zia's objections, Junejo's government signed the UN-sponsored Geneva Accords on Afghanistan in April 1988. On 29 May 1988 as Junejo landed in Islamabad from a trip to China, Gen.Zia announced that he had dismissed the government and dissolved the national and provincial assemblies. For a short time Junejo was held under house arrest.

After Gen.Zia's death in a plane crash in August 1988, fresh elections were held in which Junejo lost his seat in a humiliating defeat by a PPP candidate. However, he won his seat in the 1990 election and continued to head the Muslim League Party, despite attempts by the present Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif, to take over the post. Junejo's faction of the Muslim League, which has always kept its distance from Sharif, is at the centre of the present political struggle between Sharif and President Ghulam Ishaq Khan over the controversial Eighth Amendment to the Constitution, which gives the President the power to dismiss the Prime Minister.
Junejo was impeccably honest, a strict disciplinarian and a conservative Muslim who kept his wife at his village home and never allowed her to join him in public. He had five children died Baltimore 17 March 1993.his son & a daughter still doing politics.


SO, THERE FORE! MY DEAR & EDUCATED , BUT ILLINFORMED FRIEND!
plz stop typical indian stlye , lectures on the subjects , which you never know ?


well about your special forces going to afghanistan , for combat!
seriously , dont let them die without funrels.

plz learn !

INDIA: Kargil Exclusive - War Against Error
DakBangla Occasional BlogsSaturday, February 19, 2005
Kargil Exclusive - War Against Error
SAIKAT DATTA

http://dakbangla.blogspot.com/2005/02/india-kargil

+ Was the army right in carrying out the assessment? There is one school of thought that the army should not have identified and recorded its mistakes since it shows the force in poor light. Conventional wisdom is that there should not be a post-mortem of any recent operation. But many senior officers feel that a candid assessment was necessary. They feel that only such an exercise and a keenness to learn can help a professional army to make a course correction and keep it fighting fit in this millennium. +

The Indian army was shocked and awed by the Kargil war. Five years on, its internal assessment report lists the blunders it made, and steps to avert them in the future.

Revelations of the Secret Report

* Senior commanders reached late. There were lapses in command and control.

* There was total intelligence failure

* It was presumed that an overt nuclear posture would guarantee peace

* The army was in low intensity conflict mode and unprepared for a conventional war

* There was a sense of complacency. It was assumed there would be no incursion across difficult and harsh terrain.

* Senior officers were physically unfit. And there was lack of initiative at the JCO-NCO level.

* Northern Command was stretched and troop levels were not adequate

There are passages in the history of a nation that are etched in its collective memory forever.

The battle fought on the icy heights of Kargil between May and July 1999 is one that will not be easily forgotten by India. Five years after a war in which 474 officers and men lost their lives, there has been much introspection in the country's security establishment on what went right, and what went wrong, in Operation Vijay.

The decision to take a dispassionate look at the war and to record its history and disseminate it among top generals of the army was taken two years ago when Gen N.C. Vij took over as army chief. He had witnessed the conduct of the war at close quarters as the Director General of Military Operations (DGMO). Gen Vij decided to put together an internal assessment documenting the crucial lessons from that war, culled mostly from top secret operational notes with the military operations directorate.

Such an assessment, it was felt, would help the army's senior commanders to learn "valuable lessons of the art of war"—a war that was fought in recent times and won, albeit after paying a heavy price.

The soul-searching made the army take a hard look at the many blunders that were committed during the Kargil operations—the critical failures which happened at various levels. Senior commanders failed to deliver, the intelligence set-up proved ineffective, battalions were led by people too old to climb razor-edge peaks in sub-zero climes, rifles that were introduced midway through the war created problems and the delay in deploying air power during the conflict prolonged the war.

Each blunder had a lesson in it too. The army establishment was of the view that there was no point in hiding the truth under the "top secret" veil. It would be better to acknowledge the failures, take corrective measures, and move on. Outlook is the first in the media to study the 250-odd page report. In it, for the first time, the defence establishment officially acknowledges the army's failures and also puts on record what it has done to ensure that such lapses don't occur in the future. Here is an exclusive peek into the army's internal assessment of the Kargil war.

Complacency And Intelligence Failure[/B]

According to the army's own assessment, one of the biggest lessons of the Kargil war was that there "was a sense of complacency among the officers and men". It was believed at the command level and on the ground that the "terrain was so difficult that there would not be any incursions". The army's "winter posture" had led to vacating a few critical posts. This was coupled with the fact that nearly "a 130 km stretch between Turtuk and Zojila had no sensors". The "winter air surveillance operations (WASO)" is described as "at best, not very effective."

The ongoing peace process, kicked off by the Lahore bus ride of then Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee, and the fact that both India and Pakistan had gone "overtly nuclear" led the army top brass to believe that war was a distant possibility.
The assessment also recognises another factor that caused much heartburn within the army's higher echelons—the fact that there were no inputs from the Research & Analysis Wing (RAW).

It was the agency's task to gather foreign intelligence. While RAW did manage an "intelligence scoop by intercepting a call between Gen Pervez Musharraf and his chief of staff", there were no initial inputs on the extent of incursions into Kargil. The fact that there were "no ground sensors" on the 130 km stretch also adversely affected the army's ability to preempt the incursions. It has also been put on record that Military Intelligence was unable to "analyse certain inputs". For instance, there were reports of "large-scale animal transport movements on the Pakistani side of the LoC".However, military intelligence summarised that these were undertaken to replenish ammunition for the Pakistani artillery regiments.Later, it was learnt that this was part of the 'Kargil plan'.

Lessons:
A range of new technology has been introduced, including regular flights by unmanned aerial vehicles. The army pressed for a fence on the Line of Control to effectively check infiltration. With a drop in infiltration, the senior commanders can keep their troops readied for conventional operations. It was also decided that winter posts would not be vacated. A Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA) was created along with the National Security Council secretariat and Military Intelligence was refurbished and "strengthened" by then army chief General S. Padmanabhan.Defensive Mindset
The army has acknowledged the fact that its formation and senior commanders were so involved in counter-insurgency operations that when the first reports of an incursion came in, few believed that this was a Pakistani gamble to "take possession of the strategic heights". The army was in Low Intensity Conflict Mode ("LICO-ised"). Coupled with this "defensive mindset", it took more than two weeks for the army top brass to recognise that this was an unusual occurrence. "While initial reports reached the Military Operations Directorate on May 8, only two battalions were dispatched to the area" (the sector manned by the 121 Kargil Brigade). On May 17, the army received aerial reconnaissance pictures and was finally able to gauge the extent of the incursions and on May 20 orders were issued to the Bareilly based 6th Division to move up.
The assessment dwells on the "delay in the introduction of the air force for operations in the Kargil sector". It also notes the fact that a legitimate worry had been expressed by the then chief of air staff, A.Y. Tipnis, that introduction of air assets could "escalate the conflict". With the three chiefs unable to come to a decision, and the Cabinet Committee on Security headed by then Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee indecisive, air power was finally introduced only on May 25.
Lessons:
The army ordered that additional formations would be rotated in the north and be kept in battle preparedness. An elaborate exercise was undertaken to ensure that formations raised to deal exclusively with counter-insurgency operations would also be tasked to support and, if necessary, undertake conventional operations. The army underlined the need for a decision-making process to be institutionalised and "perhaps the appointment of a chief of defence staff could help resolve any similar dilemmas in the future".

Missed Gauging The Strategic Environment

There was an "interim government" in India which emboldened the Pakistani army hierarchy to assume that it would be "indecisive" and not be in a position to tackle with the exigency. With political instability, the Indian army should have been on high alert. But it was not. According to the assessment, Pakistan's army hierarchy was "banking on the fact" that since it was also "overtly nuclear" India would not want a full-fledged war.

There were also fears in the Pakistan army that the ongoing Lahore peace process in February 1999 could "dilute Pakistan's stand on Kashmir".

This gave "further impetus to their plans to occupy strategic heights in the Kargil sector". Finally, the stated policy of the Indian government, up to the conclusion of the Bangladesh war in 1971, was that if there were any incursions across the LoC then the Indian armed forces had the right to cross the international border. Since then there has been no stated policy on this. The BJP government went in for a policy of restraint for diplomatic gains. This forced the army to take on virtually impossible objectives like high mountain peaks which were "found to be unsound militarily".In one such operation Major Vikram Batra was killed.
Lessons:
The security set-up has been revamped—the National Security Council secretariat was established which now publishes a security review. Drawing extensively on inputs from intelligence agencies, it looks at economic and political factors. The review is disseminated within the security establishment in the hope that it can prevent "another Kargil".

Seniors Unfit, Juniors Lax

The assessment points out that with an older profile of "commanders at the battalion and brigade level", the army was literally gasping for breath. Two commanding officers of infantry battalions were moved out as they were physically unfit to deal with the demands made by the rugged terrain, high altitude and the rigours of war. The report also points out that equivalent Pakistani commanders were "younger by three to four years."

A sizeable proportion of the 474 killed during the war were young commissioned officers (lieutenants and captains) who had just passed out of the Indian Military Academy and had joined their respective units. The high casualty rate among them has been largely attributed in the assessment to the "severe lack of initiative in the junior leadership", specifically among Junior Commissioned Officers (JCOs) and Non-Commissioned Officers (NCO) who are platoon commanders. They were also found to be averse to taking risks. Finally, if the war was won, the report says, it was due to the "courage and leadership of the young (commissioned) officers" who "carried the bulk of the burden".

Lessons:
On Army Day last year, the partial implementation of the Ajai Vikram Singh Committee report was announced by Gen Vij. The government finally gave the clearance in December 2004 for its full implementation, allowing a host of younger officers to assume command of battalions. In the last two years, army headquarters has been working furiously to establish an academy for NCOs to motivate them and to hone their battle-craft.

Lack Of Fire Power

In retrospect, the army's own conclusion is that as the war broke out it did not have adequate troops in the region to "tackle the emerging threat". The Indian troops maintained a "defensive posture" and were not "adequately poised" to deal with "conventional operations". It did not have "committed and trained force levels" to deal with Pakistan. An internal study by the army had also established that in the mountains the Indian Army needs to maintain force levels in the ratio of 9:1 vis-a-vis Pakistan to retain its upper hand in conventional operations. This, obviously, was not the case during Kargil.

Operation Vijay also brought out that "overwhelming firepower from heavier calibre guns" proved decisive. While the majority of the Indian army's artillery regiments had guns of a lower calibre, it was the 155 mm Bofors Howitzers that performed magnificently. Greater firepower could have shortened the war and cut down casualties.

Lessons:
Kargil and to an extent Operation Parakram led to the authoring of the Indian army's first doctrine under the chairmanship of Gen Vij.

The army top brass recognised that in future there would be "short wars", that the army needed the "immediate ability to go to war" and it would be fought in the "backdrop of terrorism" as well under the cloud of an "overt nuclear threat". On the ground, army headquarters has also ensured that to maintain "adequate force levels" a formation from the Bareilly-based 6th Division would now be permanently located in the north and would "train and deploy elements to keep them battle-ready."

Even the Kargil Review Committee had noted that it is yet to be recognised in spirit by the ministry of defence "that acquisition takes a long time to fructify." The "long-standing requirement" of weapon-locating radars was sorely felt and the army ordered "up-gunning from 105mm and 130mm to a higher calibre of 155mm of its artillery regiments."

Northern Command Stretched

The report points out that "the Udhampur-based Northern Command was stretched" and unable to "cope with the emerging threat of war." While it had to oversee live operations in the mountains in and around Kargil, it also had to maintain vigil on the LoC and the international border. Consequently, it was also engaged in counter-insurgency operations. There was a need to "rationalise the command and the control structure". The Srinagar-based 15 Corps was found to be inadequate to control operations east of the Zojila Pass which led to the debacle. "In the initial stages, the corps had only one division to deal with the exigency."

The report also recognises the fact that due to "operational urgency" troops had to be rushed to forward areas without acclimatisation. Acclimatisation is mandatory for all troops before being inducted into high-altitude areas.

Lessons:
Cleared by the government in January this year, the new South-West Command will help rationalise this anomaly and enable quicker deployment and immediate commencement of operations. The army also created the Leh-based 14 Corps with three divisions to beef up its presence in the Kargil sector.

Misuse Of Special Forces

An operation launched by a Special Forces team under the 8 Mountain Division ground to a halt on a mountain feature called Sando Top when they were engaged by Pakistan's Special Services Group. The Indian troops were found to be lacking in key equipment and the tasking was also questionable. Other SF units which were deployed were used as regular infantry battalions to capture features, a role they are neither equipped nor tasked for. This led to higher casualties and misuse of a strategic force.

Lessons:
None. The army continues to misuse the Special Forces. In fact, now it has expanded and diluted their capabilities further. In future wars India will have to do without any real Special Forces capability.

Was the army right in carrying out the assessment? There is one school of thought that the army should not have identified and recorded its mistakes since it shows the force in poor light. Conventional wisdom is that there should not be a post-mortem of any recent operation. But many senior officers feel that a candid assessment was necessary. They feel that only such an exercise and a keenness to learn can help a professional army to make a course correction and keep it fighting fit in this millennium.



posted by DakBangla


need more?

 

[Hellfire]

batmannow

Dear Sir

plz prove the under line section , with good links!

ah your good links will be your own choice. am sure if you were to google you shall find plenty of them claiming Nawaz Sharif was aware of operations planned to be executed by April 1999.

Musharraf and the truth about the Kargil war with India

just an example. You can find more "good" links if you google.

i stand by , what i had said before, i guss reading books from rtd. genrals will never leed you in to reality, you need to be there, on the ground ,in the action! my friend.
And for this purpose , you need tobe in the army, your info is qiute good but, still you are far from the real battle field, i guss you can , change your profession & can join bollywood easily, with lots of money & fame. i guss , bollywood need your kind of educated producers, story makers.

and I told you my info is not online previously and definitely not from reading books alone. i have certain amount of "exposure" and we can leave it at that. did say its upto you to decide. my info is better than for a person who is well read and a great googler. am sure if you were to go through some of my posts of previous and in future were to follow, you shall realise the same. on the other hand, I certainly have not made myself look like a dunce whilst claiming Kargil antecedants and then making the gaffe of questioning the rationalisation of ratio of troops employed by an attacking force in a mountainous and high altitude region - a query which as ex-PA you should know the answer to (for referrence you can refer to US Army FM 3-97.6 pertaining to operations in the mountains, something your officer corps uses quite frequently)

Am sure my profession presently is adequate and I do make plenty of money at that too


Q.let me refresh you that at the time it was a military dictator who was in power (someone known as Gen Zia-ul-Haq) so the question of not telling the PM about anti-Soviet operations is irrelevant and if you mean to say information was withheld from the General then you are far off course.

A. Let me enlight your educated but illinformed mind that, at the time of "late shaheed president of pakistanGen Zia-ul-Haq", there was a primminster & his name was ?


I see a pattern of transferrence. Its a defensive mechanism by which a person tries to shift focus onto something which is not unpleasant to him (in laymans terms)

now by highlighting above, you mean to say that the said General was sharing power with his Prime minister as also there existed two centers of gravity in the government of the day? how much will you deviate and deflect sir? Is it not so that the Gen was the supreme and ultimate authority in Pakistan that time and as such he has to be in the know of things? Please do say no !!!:

SO, THERE FORE! MY DEAR & EDUCATED , BUT ILLINFORMED FRIEND!
plz stop typical indian stlye , lectures on the subjects , which you never know ?

do you seriously equate me with your grasp of things as basic as moutain warfare (being ex-PA)? Please be kind enough not to. You are in a league far beyond and of its own yourself sir. And what arm did you serve in? SSG?Infantry?


well about your special forces going to afghanistan , for combat!
seriously , dont let them die without funrels.

they, for your info, are already there. my coursemate was posted to wireless experiment unit of IA there (name given to SIGINT troops of IA) after commissioning from IMA there in 2003 itself. so am sure am quite aware of troops disposition there.

plz learn !

definitely I shall but not mountain warfare from you. have suddenly developed an aversion for the same especially if a Kargil veteran will teach and yet asks such degenrate questions on force structure and time equations.


And as proof you post a blog? I mean this is too good. I can post millions of same pointing out that ISI is behind terror in India etc. Its redundant. For your info please do go through this

Kargil Review Committee Report


Its the reporting of Kargil Review Commitee ... something my father was a part of and I am very much aware of .... the Kargil, how why and when.

Indian media falsified claims of casualties only for the ones occurring on night of May3-4th when 3 Indian posts fell with over 70 killed (no doubt a brilliantly executed op by PA). This I know and was aware of immediately. The news was picked up by Star TV and Zee News after Pakistan claimed 3 posts as captured. However Initially it was denied and then only 15 or so casualties were acknowledged which was to cross to over 130 in about another 7 days .. spacing was definitely done to minimise impact of casulties on Indian public.



need more?

yes to professional ideas and objective posts from a service member, no to BS anmd crap from some one claiming to be one. its your decision again what you want to be

 

[batmannow]

batmannow

Dear Sir

plz prove the under line section , with good links!

ah your good links will be your own choice. am sure if you were to google you shall find plenty of them claiming Nawaz Sharif was aware of operations planned to be executed by April 1999.

Musharraf and the truth about the Kargil war with India

just an example. You can find more "good" links if you google.

i stand by , what i had said before, i guss reading books from rtd. genrals will never leed you in to reality, you need to be there, on the ground ,in the action! my friend.
And for this purpose , you need tobe in the army, your info is qiute good but, still you are far from the real battle field, i guss you can , change your profession & can join bollywood easily, with lots of money & fame. i guss , bollywood need your kind of educated producers, story makers.

and I told you my info is not online previously and definitely not from reading books alone. i have certain amount of "exposure" and we can leave it at that. did say its upto you to decide. my info is better than for a person who is well read and a great googler. am sure if you were to go through some of my posts of previous and in future were to follow, you shall realise the same. on the other hand, I certainly have not made myself look like a dunce whilst claiming Kargil antecedants and then making the gaffe of questioning the rationalisation of ratio of troops employed by an attacking force in a mountainous and high altitude region - a query which as ex-PA you should know the answer to (for referrence you can refer to US Army FM 3-97.6 pertaining to operations in the mountains, something your officer corps uses quite frequently)

Am sure my profession presently is adequate and I do make plenty of money at that too


Q.let me refresh you that at the time it was a military dictator who was in power (someone known as Gen Zia-ul-Haq) so the question of not telling the PM about anti-Soviet operations is irrelevant and if you mean to say information was withheld from the General then you are far off course.

A. Let me enlight your educated but illinformed mind that, at the time of "late shaheed president of pakistanGen Zia-ul-Haq", there was a primminster & his name was ?


I see a pattern of transferrence. Its a defensive mechanism by which a person tries to shift focus onto something which is not unpleasant to him (in laymans terms)

now by highlighting above, you mean to say that the said General was sharing power with his Prime minister as also there existed two centers of gravity in the government of the day? how much will you deviate and deflect sir? Is it not so that the Gen was the supreme and ultimate authority in Pakistan that time and as such he has to be in the know of things? Please do say no !!!::

SO, THERE FORE! MY DEAR & EDUCATED , BUT ILLINFORMED FRIEND!
plz stop typical indian stlye , lectures on the subjects , which you never know ?

do you seriously equate me with your grasp of things as basic as moutain warfare (being ex-PA)? Please be kind enough not to. You are in a league far beyond and of its own yourself sir. And what arm did you serve in? SSG?Infantry?


well about your special forces going to afghanistan , for combat!
seriously , dont let them die without funrels.

they, for your info, are already there. my coursemate was posted to wireless experiment unit of IA there (name given to SIGINT troops of IA) after commissioning from IMA there in 2003 itself. so am sure am quite aware of troops disposition there.

plz learn !

definitely I shall but not mountain warfare from you. have suddenly developed an aversion for the same especially if a Kargil veteran will teach and yet asks such degenrate questions on force structure and time equations.


And as proof you post a blog? I mean this is too good. I can post millions of same pointing out that ISI is behind terror in India etc. Its redundant. For your info please do go through this

Kargil Review Committee Report


Its the reporting of Kargil Review Commitee ... something my father was a part of and I am very much aware of .... the Kargil, how why and when.

Indian media falsified claims of casualties only for the ones occurring on night of May3-4th when 3 Indian posts fell with over 70 killed (no doubt a brilliantly executed op by PA). This I know and was aware of immediately. The news was picked up by Star TV and Zee News after Pakistan claimed 3 posts as captured. However Initially it was denied and then only 15 or so casualties were acknowledged which was to cross to over 130 in about another 7 days .. spacing was definitely done to minimise impact of casulties on Indian public.



need more?

yes to professional ideas and objective posts from a service member, no to BS anmd crap from some one claiming to be one. its your decision again what you want to be

hellfire;dear sir!

Indian media falsified claims of casualties only for the ones occurring on night of May3-4th when 3 Indian posts fell with over 70 killed (no doubt a brilliantly executed op by PA). This I know and was aware of immediately. The news was picked up by Star TV and Zee News after Pakistan claimed 3 posts as captured. However Initially it was denied and then only 15 or so casualties were acknowledged which was to cross to over 130 in about another 7 days .. spacing was definitely done to minimise impact of casulties on Indian public.


THANKS for accepting the truth, from my part !
i guss, what ever information you are trying to explore here are mostly from, your father , well for this purpose, i would like to salute him , for his debriefings to you, but as a ex-PA we arent allowed to do so.

can you ask him , more info about 199 indian soldiers , who were shot in thier eyes by a PAKARMY SNIPER, i realy like to know about them , cause i was there , but we cant really know about the reality, me & my fellow companymen , we counted 400, with every bullet we fired , but what we got is 199.

let me ,add a bit & confrim the bravry by a young indian officer, who we captured with his patrol party 5 of soldiers,Lt. Saurabh Kalia of 4 JAT Regiment of the Indian Army , he was a brave soul!
I with my 2 ssg soldiers, we traped them & later they led down thier weapons, & remaind under investigation !
this is one more example of my tactical marvel of military professionalism." , moutain warfare (being ex-PA)?

well, i never said that , INDIAN ARMY isnt in afghanistan?
i said it wouldbe very ,unresponsible to let these brave mens , doing MISSION IMPOSIBLES in afghnistan! i certnly , know that your SoF were thier to gurd your 18 consulates(terrorist training camps), after a deadly attack on them by talibans.

i am sure , they are doing a great job by gurding ,18 Indian consulates & training terrorists against ISI.
But at the same time , i am certnly sure that , indian SOF cant be doing , counter insurgency opreations in afghanistan, & GOI will not be letting the lives of those brave mens, on another misadventure,which they arent trainned for ?


ah your good links will be your own choice. am sure if you were to google you shall find plenty of them claiming Nawaz Sharif was aware of operations planned to be executed by April 1999.

well, i never said that gen. musharaf hided everything from the primminster (NAWAZ SHARIF), I SAID YOU HE, TOLD THE PRIMMINSTER about the mission ,but not the ALL OF opreational activities, & plans?

you mean to say that the said General was sharing power with his Prime minister as also there existed two centers of gravity in the government of the day? how much will you deviate and deflect sir? Is it not so that the Gen was the supreme and ultimate authority in Pakistan that time and as such he has to be in the know of things? Please do say no !!!

mohammad khan junejo was a very , noble & very much very vibriant prime minster of his times, that,s why , he was sacked by GEN. zia -ul- haq! because he was insisting , the president of pakistan, for the investigations of "OGRI CAMP" incident! yes if he can know the "OGRI CAMP", surlly he had the knowledge of things , in the era of GEN . zia-ul- aq? he was the second most informed person at that time! really you know very well. enough of your knowledge


And as proof you post a blog? I mean this is too good. I can post millions of same pointing out that ISI is behind terror in India etc. Its redundant.

well, this blog wasnt enough ? yes it wasnt!
i can get it , from other sources, but the result would be same? right!

Indian media falsified claims of casualties only for the ones occurring on night of May3-4th when 3 Indian posts fell with over 70 killed (no doubt a brilliantly executed op by PA)

yes to professional ideas and objective posts from a service member, no to BS anmd crap from some one claiming to be one. its your decision again what you want to be.

for that , part i think you should be on some midecal fourm , not on a defence fourm , dear doctor, i was what ,i was but its over for now?
its incredible to see a doctor , clamming to be a professional & expert of mountain warfare ?
a query which as ex-PA you should know the answer to (for referrence you can refer to US Army FM 3-97.6 pertaining to operations in the mountains, something your officer corps uses quite frequently)

dam i know it! dont try to play doc!

by the way, i was a part of NLI!

 

[Zaheerkhan]

What's funny is that Pakistan managed to bring Baitullah Masud into the fray..when they ought to get hold of Mullah Omar, if they want progress in Afghanistan!!!

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

which superpower used India in IPL hosting? This will not be a delusion also for that needs an external stimuli. Here there is an absence so its pure hallucination. The reason was the corporates were to face losses which were too large to be ignored by IPL governing body and so they moved as central government was unable to provide for adequate secuirty forces for these which were coinciding with general elections .... now if you cant comprehend this aspect and corelate it with events then I cant help you. Its no geopolitic here!

If sirilankan team is being attacked in Pakistan then same can happen in india. Its a lame excuse that you are making . IPL was shifted coz many in india feared that Pakistan will take revenge after wat india did to sabotaje PAK-SIRILANKA cricket series .

Indian Intelligance agencies masterminded the attack on sirilankan team its an open truth which nobody can deny.
There is a bloody game going on btw the ISI & RAW and on that front it was RAW which broked the rules of the game by sabotaging the cricket series. But eventually in the end it were poor indian cricket fans which have been deprived from viewing cricket in their own country. The worldcup is near . Many experts thought the Indian agencies used the unrest in Pakistan and the tamil tiger war in Sirilanka to deprive these countries from hosting the Planed cricket matches in their own venu. But such a move is bound to fail becauze If you can groome one BaitullahMehsud here than there can be ten like him in India. MOD EDIT: UNNECESSARY AND OFF TOPIC

 

[Hellfire]

batmannow


dear sir!


THANKS for accepting the truth, from my part !

you are very welcome. am willing to accept what is true as true and what is not as not.


i guss, what ever information you are trying to explore here are mostly from, your father , well for this purpose, i would like to salute him , for his debriefings to you, but as a ex-PA we arent allowed to do so.

actually contrary to your guess work, its very much not so. IA also has same policy so nothing coming my way for use on net from those areas .... what is posted is out of my limited experience ........

can you ask him , more info about 199 indian soldiers , who were shot in thier eyes by a PAKARMY SNIPER, i realy like to know about them , cause i was there , but we cant really know about the reality, me & my fellow companymen , we counted 400, with every bullet we fired , but what we got is 199.

now this is new. can you provide link so can read about him to gain more knowledge to flaunt? seems he has beaten Vasilley zaitsev, ludmilla pavlichenko, billy singh and almost caught up with simo hayha, yet remains unknown which is unfair ..... no doubt he may have got the kills of a higher count .... but the number is too absurd for kills ...... its not correlated and as for true indian casualties [KIAs] its what the official figure as the bodies were flown to palam airport and there was a media presence there to record the same.


let me ,add a bit & confrim the bravry by a young indian officer, who we captured with his patrol party 5 of soldiers,Lt. Saurabh Kalia of 4 JAT Regiment of the Indian Army , he was a brave soul!

i reserve my comment on this

I with my 2 ssg soldiers, we traped them & later they led down thier weapons, & remaind under investigation !

apart from being a tall and false claim [radio intercepts confirmed presence of about 2 section worth of troops in the area of bajrang post at the time] even if i was to humor your contention, a ratio of 3:5 in mountains is not a great ratio which highlights your speedy and accurate skills. on the contrary I would say it was pretty ordinary as a force of 5-12 people on a hill top can tie down over a coy worth of troops.(am sure being nli/SSG you can appreciate this)

this is one more example of my tactical marvel of military professionalism." , moutain warfare (being ex-PA)?

congrats that is why your rationale of questioning need for deployment of forces ...... and negating the linear threat posed ........

well, i never said that gen. musharaf hided everything from the primminster (NAWAZ SHARIF), I SAID YOU HE, TOLD THE PRIMMINSTER about the mission ,but not the ALL OF opreational activities, & plans?

yet you chose to argue over this point where in my first post was that the military operations/parameter is defined by political objective (even Kargil was with a political objective and NOT military) yet you continued arguing over what...?

mohammad khan junejo was a very , noble & very much very vibriant prime minster of his times, that,s why , he was sacked by GEN. zia -ul- haq! because he was insisting , the president of pakistan, for the investigations of "OGRI CAMP" incident! yes if he can know the "OGRI CAMP", surlly he had the knowledge of things , in the era of GEN . zia-ul- aq? he was the second most informed person at that time! really you know very well. enough of your knowledge

i agree to your assesment of his .... and this is in continuation of above .... so answered above, my point stands. gen zia could not have been out of loop of ANYTHING!!!!

well, this blog wasnt enough ? yes it wasnt!
i can get it , from other sources, but the result would be same? right!

yet you chose to post a blog. next you shall quote the India Doctrine as proof for RAW involvement. get real sir


for that , part i think you should be on some midecal fourm , not on a defence fourm , dear doctor, i was what ,i was but its over for now?
its incredible to see a doctor , clamming to be a professional & expert of mountain warfare ?

can you highlight my post where I have claimed to be that? anywhere sir? if your ability to comprehend is limited by your high altitude exposure ..... then it cant be helped can it?



a query which as ex-PA you should know the answer to (for referrence you can refer to US Army FM 3-97.6 pertaining to operations in the mountains, something your officer corps uses quite frequently)

dam i know it! dont try to play doc!

by the way, i was a part of NLI


and yet you gave such a poor account of your understanding of the basic ops. while you can now deviate and do a pitch and roll [something I suspect is GoP position] as evident till now ....... I am not the one trying to 'play' as you say ...... and for once either you were with nli or ssg decide and confirm for if you were in nli then you cant claim ssg or if ssg you cant be nli at the time ... so either you were on deputation or not ......


anyways am tiring of this ...... the closing lines are yours .....


regards

 

[Hellfire]

If sirilankan team is being attacked in Pakistan then same can happen in india. Its a lame excuse that you are making . IPL was shifted coz many in india feared that Pakistan will take revenge after wat india did to sabotaje PAK-SIRILANKA cricket series .

Indian Intelligance agencies masterminded the attack on sirilankan team its an open truth which nobody can deny.
There is a bloody game going on btw the ISI & RAW and on that front it was RAW which broked the rules of the game by sabotaging the cricket series. But eventually in the end it were poor indian cricket fans which have been deprived from viewing cricket in their own country. The worldcup is near . Many experts thought the Indian agencies used the unrest in Pakistan and the tamil tiger war in Sirilanka to deprive these countries from hosting the Planed cricket matches in their own venu. But such a move is bound to fail becauze If you can groome one BaitullahMehsud here than there can be ten like him in India. The vast Indian muslim population and the unjust killings of innocent muslims by the BERHAMIN class hindus can bring hell in your country .

sir it has still not answered my query of who do you mean by being a superpower ... and how has that got to do with terrorism and hosting of crikcet in exclusively Indian venues and excluding srilanka and pakistan? and where does this muslim-brahmin thing come?

 

[Torpedo]

I request you to consider the following answers without being prejudiced.

If sirilankan team is being attacked in Pakistan then same can happen in india. Its a lame excuse that you are making . IPL was shifted coz many in india feared that Pakistan will take revenge after wat india did to sabotaje PAK-SIRILANKA cricket series .

General Elections in India are far bigger and more important phenomenon than IPL. Yes, there were fears, but not for IPL - for elections. Its far more easy to protect a game series than to protect the election procedure. So, Pakistan still has a chance.

Indian Intelligance agencies masterminded the attack on sirilankan team its an open truth which nobody can deny.

Nobody can prove, for that matter!

There is a bloody game going on btw the ISI & RAW and on that front it was RAW which broked the rules of the game by sabotaging the cricket series. But eventually in the end it were poor indian cricket fans which have been deprived from viewing cricket in their own country. The worldcup is near . Many experts thought the Indian agencies used the unrest in Pakistan and the tamil tiger war in Sirilanka to deprive these countries from hosting the Planed cricket matches in their own venu.

Firstly, Pakistan was never in position to host the World-Cup. Go through the news BEFORE 3/3.

Secondly, GoP has officially denied any evidence pointing towards India for attack. So, better get over your emotions.

But such a move is bound to fail becauze If you can groome one BaitullahMehsud here than there can be ten like him in India.

Is there any study or its just a ill-wish?

The vast Indian muslim population and the unjust killings of innocent muslims by the BERHAMIN class hindus can bring hell in your country .

Your statement is self-contradictory. If Hindus are killing Muslims for decades, how come Muslim population claims more and more percentage in the total Indian population?