US Senate warns Obama on Rouhani in letter signed by 76 lawmakers

[Falcon29]

They are hypocrites, we know. We are trying to tell Mr. @Hazzy997 but he won't listen.

Both sides are hypocrites in some cases. Such as when he said we fought with their weapons, a lot of the weapons are our production and from the black market.

None of us are perfect. I wish to see more parties like Hamas emerge. We eventually will genuinely care for each other.

He does not even need to look at the Iranian users here who are just the common Joe without any political influence inside Iran anyway. A large portion of them are also political/war refugees or sons of such people living abroad. What those Mullah's have been doing in the Arab world since 1979 speaks for itself and luckily the vast majority of Palestinians already know this very well but they can at least just take advantage of the crap that Iran sends once in a while anyway.

Anyway they are in a desperate situation so they would probably even say yes to the Israeli opposition if they shipped a few weapons here and there once in a while and somehow I can't blame them. But as always you have to look at the greater picture and know your enemy.

Exactly. You can't blame us. And we've also made lots of mistakes before but learn from our mistakes. You can't start from scratch though, we need to move on.

 

[al-Hasani]

Fatah shouldn't be taken serious, they have drastically different views which can be solved, but, what's preventing them is one of their sponsors doesn't want Hamas involved in a reconciliation deal. Unless, Hamas gives up its foundation and loses its independence and turns into a ineffective organization which will get the boot from the US and Israel.

And it's okay, we arabs have a hard tone, it's natural and that's we have dialogue with each other anyways. No hard feelings.

Anyway don't get me wrong. I support the Palestinian right to defend themselves military if necessary but what I am saying to you as a Palestinian and Palestinians as a people being fellow Muslims and Arabs and more or less neighbors is that you should fight the right wars like Prophet Muhammad (saws) did and other great Muslims in history. Or non-Muslims for that matter. The first rule. Know your battles. Besides truly uniting because nobody else will unite you other than yourself.

Let us just assume, hypothetically speaking, that Hamas in Gaza somehow acquires fighting jets, helicopters, navy ships etc. and uses such advanced weapons against Israel. Let us just say that they are able to target Tel Aviv. What would an reply from Israel be? Or the international society? What would happen with the Palestinian fight for independence? I mean is that not the best scenario to get your hand on such weapons and use them against Israel?

I mean what are you goals? Do you want Israel not to exist and if yes what should the Palestinians do with the Jews? We must be realistic. I am interested to hear your thoughts.

Regarding what I wrote earlier in the post it seems I was completely spot on - well I know Iranians here and elsewhere so I did not exactly invent the wheel so to speak. What do you say about such attitudes? Remember when I said that you want see this attitude from fellow Arabs?

And just slogans? They fought Israeli aggression with our weapons, not yours. You can't answer Israeli aggression by 'symbolic gestures' and 'peaceful' means.
Have you ever wondered why Israel advances in to Eastern Jerusalem on a daily basis, but has no interest in Gaza? Is it because of their love for Gazans? or ineffectiveness of Mahmoud Abbas policies of Fatah movement? Or Yasser Arafat before him?

You make some pathetic postings. Did I ever tell you that?

I prefer U.S. hegemony over Arab hegemony, as Saudis always like to remind Iranians, why be more Arab than Arabs themselves? Let them deal with Israel themselves? As far as I'm concerned Israel could have anywhere between Nile to Euphrates, neither Nile nor Euphrates is ours to fight for, let the Arabs deal with them.

I'm sorry but I couldn't care less. Iran is more important than anything else to me. Remember the country comes first! And its not in our interest to **** with superpowers.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/iranian-defence/267981-no-sanctions-please-join-2.html#post4588556

Users who thanked that post:

Abii, kollang, Serpentine and 3 others thanked this.
iranigirl2, Esfand, SOS Brigade

All of the 6 users who thanked that Iranians post are Iranian users themselves aside from that Esfand Indian who happens to speak Persian.

Stop prentending that you care about Palestinians, Arabs and Sunni Muslims. When we Arabs and Muslims thought that some of you Iranian members here could not get more pathetic. We read you like an open book. I do at least so no need to fool people here and play with them emotionally and use them for political and strategical gains.

I have saved this post in case I see more pathetic claims from you Iranians here and fake support for us Arabs and Muslims.

Serperntine: Sure it was only "that part" you agreed with. You don't think that I know your postings by now and can say 2+2 is 4?

Anyway even if you indeed cared about Palestinians, Arabs and Sunni Muslims then you are still only a minority among Iranians here and in real life. That is a fact.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

You are always whining. So what do you suggest? We give Hamas Shahab-3 missiles? Or Mig-29 jets? Even those unguided missiles were smuggled to Gaza with lots of trouble and hardness.

Israel got out of Southern Lebanon because Hezbollah increased the price for them to stay there. They were losing forces in there and couldn't take the burden anymore. You know how Israel works, even one dead soldier is too much for them.

You didn't say, what are you suggesting? Peace talks? Abbas and Arafat tries it for decades, how did that work out?

I don't like saying it, but Israel did get out by it's own, this is a fact. As for Gaza, they got out of it due to the burden on it's security and economy to keep such a crowded area under it's occupation, so there is no need to arms as they won't get back. As for Lebanon, almost for the same. They kept Golan and Shabaa farms though.

In short, Israel can't live forever like this, isolated and outcasted, everything says it. There will be a day when they will make peace and establish a Palestinian state, otherwise war will be inevitable started by them or us. It's our issue, and we don't need others to make it wore by using it to achieve their own goals.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

I get it.

The point I based my argument upon is merely political. Over the last 3 decades, Iran had never shown a single sign of unity when it came to KSA. From the very first day of the birth of the Republic, Iran was very hostile to us, wanting to destroy our country. KSA has never and will never be an aggressor against any nation.

If Iran is willing to pursue its nuclear ambitions, then the mullahs must realize that everything will come at a price. It isn't in KSA's interests to side with an A or B state in this conflict, and I wouldn't bother seeing an arm race being sparked out tbqh. For now, we hadn't seen any glimpse of hope that the INTL community could reach an agreement with Tehran, all what we could count on is to wait and see.

What you just said is MUSIC TO PAKISTANI EARS.

We support Islamic countries solidarity and Unity.

UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.

AS SIMPLE AS THAT.

Iranians and Arab Brothers should stop seeing each other as ENEMY because the only people who benefit from this stance are our real Enemies. I am sure our love for our Brothers is stronger than some minor rivalries.

 

[Falcon29]

@al-Hasani, here people don't believe in these kind of weapons. Advanced weapons of these kinds won't give us victory. Such as the jets, or a navy. It's effective in modern wars between modern nations. For us, that's not what we want. I can be specific to you of what weapons are needed here in Gaza. If you can be more specific with your questions regarding this I will reply. And you are being specific with the others. Which I will answer here.

First, Hamas can target tel aviv. The difference between us and Hezbollah is we have the guts do target tel aviv and did it 6 times along with Jerusalem. People here take risks, because they have nothing to lose. And the international society honestly doesn't have good will towards us. And doesn't respect us and in general Muslims. This makes people here feel powerless. That's why Hamas has the support it still has.

A fight for independence has already started, it isn't going to be a all out declaration of war at one random point in time. It starts with self dependence. And declaration to faith. Faith produces these men who will fight for their identity and self determination.

And yes, in this state I don't believe israel should exist. That doesn't mean we want Jews exterminated. Contrary to media perceptions, we aren't bloodthirsty. With Jews, we will accept them. Or they can move to any neighboring nation or go back to Europe. We are unlike them, Jews live here in Gaza. Many people here are married to Jews, also contrary to allegations that now Jew lives in Gaza. People here are tolerant and Palestinians are more reasonable than people think.

My goals, aren't easy to define. One person can't create his own goals. But, currently, any goal of liberating Palestine is unrealistic. But, the goal is to keep our people confident in their culture and be steadfast. Just this alone can achieve much. It's our strongest weapon.

 

[al-Hasani]

@al-Hasani, here people don't believe in these kind of weapons. Advanced weapons of these kinds won't give us victory. Such as the jets, or a navy. It's effective in modern wars between modern nations. For us, that's not what we want. I can be specific to you of what weapons are needed here in Gaza. If you can be more specific with your questions regarding this I will reply. And you are being specific with the others. Which I will answer here.

First, Hamas can target tel aviv. The difference between us and Hezbollah is we have the guts do target tel aviv and did it 6 times along with Jerusalem. People here take risks, because they have nothing to lose. And the international society honestly doesn't have good will towards us. And doesn't respect us and in general Muslims. This makes people here feel powerless. That's why Hamas has the support it still has.

A fight for independence has already started, it isn't going to be a all out declaration of war at one random point in time. It starts with self dependence. And declaration to faith. Faith produces these men who will fight for their identity and self determination.

And yes, in this state I don't believe israel should exist. That doesn't mean we want Jews exterminated. Contrary to media perceptions, we aren't bloodthirsty. With Jews, we will accept them. Or they can move to any neighboring nation or go back to Europe. We are unlike them, Jews live here in Gaza. Many people here are married to Jews, also contrary to allegations that now Jew lives in Gaza. People here are tolerant and Palestinians are more reasonable than people think.

My goals, aren't easy to define. One person can't create his own goals. But, currently, any goal of liberating Palestine is unrealistic. But, the goal is to keep our people confident in their culture and be steadfast. Just this alone can achieve much. It's our strongest weapon.

I am a bit tired and it is late here. I will return some time tomorrow if I get the time. But there is one thing you have to tell me. Am I correct when I say that you said that Israel cannot be defeated militarily right now? If such advanced weapons are not needed then why would lesser weapons be needed? You are not going to defeat Israel and chase them to exist as you want to with light weapons. History has shown that until now.

I know that that are Christian Palestinians in Gaza in the thousands and more on the West Bank. I know Palestine and Palestinians very well. Oh, I also never implied that you wanted to exterminate all Jews it was just a question of what you would do with the Jews in case of Israel being defeated.

The fight against Israel has existed for nearly 90 years. My point was that you should know your battles, unite, see the conflict from a bigger perspective and don't have unrealistic ideas because ultimately it will hurt Palestine, Palestinians and the whole region.

If you want to obtain your goals you need the backing of all Palestinians or at least well above 90% and not just one group, I am afraid.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

@al-Hasani

Yes, sure they will do just that, LOL. I am sorry but I don't trust them and thankfully our government does neither. Nor the Arab world by large or Sunni Muslim world. Don't fall for so-called comments here when the same individuals thank posts about not caring about Palestine and having nothing against Greater Israel. One of them the same individual and moderator you are exchanging sweet words with.

A- I never said we should or can trust them in any way.

B- I don't appreciate Iran's involvement in Syria and elsewhere in the Arab World.

C- I'm not an attorney for how the Muslim World perceive Iran.

D- I have always been rationalistic regarding Iran.

E- As a Saudi, It isn't the best of our interests to go to war with any nation, if the Israelis are keen on taking a military action then be it, so is the US.

What does this tell you?

It tells me if we were attacked by any country, we will bring it upon their heads, granting a first class ticket to hellfire to their people .

You know the Arab masses are too easy to fool. A few good words here and there and they all follow suit. Must be due to our codes of honor, great hospitality and trust. Unfortunately this is also our achilles heel on certain aspects.

I'm not actually an expert to observe how the mentality of 300 million people is being looked upon.

Look, if the international community attacks Iran it will be without our involvement. We don't even need to be dragged into this

Now you're talking.

 

[Pakistanisage]

I get it.

The point I based my argument upon is merely political. Over the last 3 decades, Iran had never shown a single sign of unity when it came to KSA. From the very first day of the birth of the Republic, Iran was very hostile to us, wanting to destroy our country. KSA has never and will never be an aggressor against any nation.

If Iran is willing to pursue its nuclear ambitions, then the mullahs must realize that everything will come at a price. It isn't in KSA's interests to side with an A or B state in this conflict, and I wouldn't bother seeing an arm race being sparked out tbqh. For now, we hadn't seen any glimpse of hope that the INTL community could reach an agreement with Tehran, all what we could count on is to wait and see.

Iranians would not dare to attack KSA even in their wildest dreams. An attack on KSA is an attack on Pakistan and rest of the world's Sunni Muslims. Even if Iran becomes a nuclear power which is unlikely today, attacking KSA with nukes will be Suicide for Iran and I don't think they are suicidal.

In any event, Pakistan will always stand steadfast as an ally of KSA, no matter what.

 

[Falcon29]

I am a bit tired and it is late here. I will return some time tomorrow if I get the time. But there is one thing you have to tell me. Am I correct when I say that you said that Israel cannot be defeated militarily right now? If such advanced weapons are not needed then why would lesser weapons be needed? You are not going to defeat Israel and chase them to exist as you want to with light weapons. History has shown that until now.

I know that that are Christian Palestinians in Gaza in the thousands and more on the West Bank. I know Palestine and Palestinians very well. Oh, I also never implied that you wanted to exterminate all Jews it was just a question of what you would do with the Jews in case of Israel being defeated.

The fight against Israel has existed for nearly 90 years. My point was that you should know your battles, unite, see the conflict from a bigger perspective and don't have unrealistic ideas because ultimately it will hurt Palestine, Palestinians and the whole region.

If you want to obtain your goals you need the backing of all Palestinians or at least well above 90% and not just one group, I am afraid.

Ok good night bro, yes we can defeat israel, but not in numbers. Defeating israel doesn't mean destroying their fleet and causing them mass casualties. That's not our taste of victory.

We like advanced weapons, but not in forms in which israel has a qualitative edge over and we know they can make a joke out of our arsenal if it consists of these kind of weapons that are contrary to urban/guerrilla warfare. Or whatever you may want to call it. Things like ammo, new, high quality rifles. And a wide assortment of rockets and missiles and anti armor weapons. If necessary anti air weapons but with this we can be effective. They lack quantity here. And in some cases quality.

If Hamas takes control of the West Bank, you can see things change and change fast. I won't get into it though.

But, let me tell you one thing, don't underestimate the military organizations here. A lot of like comparing our wars with the 2006 war in which Hezbollah had many advantages, also advantages in topography, intelligence, weapons, ground support, communication systems and more training and resources. You also should consider how long israel has been targeting Gaza and how much they put into gathering intelligence on groups here. Israel also came in preparing for a long time and came to restore their deterrence. And Gaza was under a blockade and a siege. People really don't consider the factors or appreciate what the resistance achieved in 2012 in such a short period after the 2009 war. They really managed to get things together and they did more to israel than some people imagine. It isn't about what's on paper. If Ahmed Jabari only knew what Gaza did for him.

Consider this with Israel's military prowess which greatly exceeds ours. This is a achievement.

Just some thoughts and not specifics but these are thoughts were you can dig deeper and understand it makes sense. Being able to be effective against israel is more difficult in Gaza than Lebanon. People need to take that into consideration.

 

[al-Hasani]

Ok good night bro, yes we can defeat israel, but not in numbers. Defeating israel doesn't mean destroying their fleet and causing them mass casualties. That's not our taste of victory.

We like advanced weapons, but not in forms in which israel has a qualitative edge over and we know they can make a joke out of our arsenal if it consists of these kind of weapons that are contrary to urban/guerrilla warfare. Or whatever you may want to call it. Things like ammo, new, high quality rifles. And a wide assortment of rockets and missiles and anti armor weapons. If necessary anti air weapons but with this we can be effective. They lack quantity here. And in some cases quality.

If Hamas takes control of the West Bank, you can see things change and change fast. I won't get into it though.

But, let me tell you one thing, don't underestimate the military organizations here. A lot of like comparing our wars with the 2006 war in which Hezbollah had many advantages, also advantages in topography, intelligence, weapons, ground support, communication systems and more training and resources. You also should consider how long israel has been targeting Gaza and how much they put into gathering intelligence on groups here. Israel also came in preparing for a long time and came to restore their deterrence. And Gaza was under a blockade and a siege. People really don't consider the factors or appreciate what the resistance achieved in 2012 in such a short period after the 2009 war. They really managed to get things together and they did more to israel than some people imagine. It isn't about what's on paper. If Ahmed Jabari only knew what Gaza did for him.

Consider this with Israel's military prowess which greatly exceeds ours. This is a achievement.

Just some thoughts and not specifics but these are thoughts were you can dig deeper and understand it makes sense. Being able to be effective against israel is more difficult in Gaza than Lebanon. People need to take that into consideration.

Thanks for the answer 7abibi. I will try to be back tomorrow or in the upcoming days. It is a very complex matter.

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

There are some rational politicians in Iran, but I'm not sure that we could trust the hard-liners. I don't think Iran would risk a confrontation with KSA.

Iranians would not dare to attack KSA even in their wildest dreams. An attack on KSA is an attack on Pakistan and rest of the world's Sunni Muslims. Even if Iran becomes a nuclear power which is unlikely today, attacking KSA with nukes will be Suicide for Iran and I don't think they are suicidal.

In any event, Pakistan will always stand steadfast as an ally of KSA, no matter what.

 

[al-Hasani]

Iranians would not dare to attack KSA even in their wildest dreams. An attack on KSA is an attack on Pakistan and rest of the world's Sunni Muslims. Even if Iran becomes a nuclear power which is unlikely today, attacking KSA with nukes will be Suicide for Iran and I don't think they are suicidal.

In any event, Pakistan will always stand steadfast as an ally of KSA, no matter what.

@Yzd Khalifa

Then we largely agree. I have never talked about attacking any country though, only if attacked. All I am saying is just based on facts. In a perfect world we would all live without any problems but that is not the reality and thus we need to be realistic and act accordingly. Notice that I am speaking about governments specifically and not the people. Well, we know that the Mullah's are only second to Israel when it comes to unpopularity in the Arab and Muslim world. This is not a surprise, I would say.

I just did not understand how you could not have any objections about the Mullah's getting an atomic bomb knowing their history in our Arab and Muslim world since 1979 and the effects of that = arm race in the Middle East. I also wondered how you could be so sure of them only doing it due to energy needs. In any way it is not in our interest and we know what our reaction would be and the regions reaction. I am also sure that Turkey will not look back silently either.

Look, I am not totally against real cooperation between KSA and Iran or the Arab world as a whole. But nothing tells me that the current Mullah regime can be trusted. I can't think of anything that proves me wrong. There is a Islamic rivalry between our two worlds (Arab world and Iran) although we are much more numerous, powerful, much bigger, richer in terms of resources etc. but it's not about power. It's goes back to pre-Islamic times all the way back to the Semitic and Indo-Iranian rivalry even. Some serious reconciliation are needed to ever fully consider Iran as a partner that can be trusted.

I don't think that there is any need of further elaboration and I prefer to say things like they are rather than use false diplomacy as some of our Iranian friends used here in the case of Palestine before I exposed them. We don't want to step back on that level.

I am openly declaring that the current fake wannabe Arab Iranian Mullah's are no friends of KSA or the Arab/Muslim world. Does that mean that I consider all Iranians - itself just a nationality and not an ethnic group, as copies of their rule? Of course not. But unfortunately a lot of them have views which I would consider as harmful to our interests. Let us just face it.

 

[The SiLent crY]

He does not even need to look at the Iranian users here who are just the common Joe without any political influence inside Iran anyway. A large portion of them are also political/war refugees or sons of such people living abroad. What those Mullah's have been doing in the Arab world since 1979 speaks for itself and luckily the vast majority of Palestinians already know this very well but they can at least just take advantage of the crap that Iran sends once in a while anyway.

Anyway they are in a desperate situation so they would probably even say yes to the Israeli opposition if they shipped a few weapons here and there once in a while and somehow I can't blame them. But as always you have to look at the greater picture and know your enemy.

@atatwolf

Come here sweetie , I've recently found your soul mate in this forum .

 

[The SiLent crY]

I get it.

The point I based my argument upon is merely political. Over the last 3 decades, Iran had never shown a single sign of unity when it came to KSA. From the very first day of the birth of the Republic, Iran was very hostile to us, wanting to destroy our country. KSA has never and will never be an aggressor against any nation.

You do need to read the history to see who was hostile , Who supported Iraq during the war started 1 year after the revolution , Who gave Iraq it's territory to attack Iran in Persian Gulf , who attacked Iranian fighters , Who murdered hundreds of Iranian pilgrims in mecca , Who supported the Jundollah in sistan etc .

 

[Yzd Khalifa]

You do need to read the history to see who was hostile , Who supported Iraq during the war started 1 year after the revolution , Who gave Iraq it's territory to attack Iran in Persian Gulf , who attacked Iranian fighters , Who murdered hundreds of Iranian pilgrims in mecca , Who supported the Jundollah in sistan etc .

It was none other than Khomini who did this to us.