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US fighter jet downs Syrian plane in Raqqa province

Poking the Russian bear out of hibernation is not an outcome you guys want. It seems you forget Russia has enough nukes to blow up entire planet earth multiple times, now let that sink in IF you're able to comprehend that. Now lets have a contest to see who's ding dong is bigger and better?!
Russia came out of hibernation in 2008 in order to annex South Ossetia from Georgia. At present, Russia is engaged in Ukraine (where it is supporting rebels in the South) and Syria (where it is supporting Assad regime).

What do you expect from US in the light of Russian advances in different fronts? Sooner or later, US would offer resistance:

1. US imposed economic sanctions on Russia in 2014 in response to its intervention in Ukraine and Russian economy has take a hit consequently.

2. Now it seems that US is becoming proactive in its efforts to restrict options for Assad regime and Russia in Syria in order to protect SDF.

Talk about nukes is easy in a forum; they did not prevent COLD WAR and subsequent dissolution of USSR. Russian nuclear doctrine is defensive - to prevent efforts for 'regime change' in Russia.

US have fielded state-of-the-art systems in space, land and sea to track missile launches and their flight paths in real-time. These systems swiftly alert US to strategic developments in any part of the world and respond in kind, if necessary. Therefore, not easy to threaten US with nuclear strikes. Americans have also developed the capability to intercept ICBMs recently and this capability will only grow in the future.
 
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Americans are different from us but we do respect them and hope the same , we will get from them. Relations are visible with the treatment of the immigrants specially in EU , where United states of America is actually incharge and defending soveriginity of many small nations who are aware of the wider policy but try to be stubborn instead of accepting thier big mistakes which are really unforgiveable.
Dude Saudis are different from us too.
He don't want accept that and at same time he is blaming me for seeing them same as Americans.
The respect is mutual.

ISIS has attacked the US/NATO, this gives US/NATO Casus Belli to attack ISIS in Syria and Iraq.
Casus Belli: "an act or event that provokes or is used to justify war"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casus_belli

When Syria attacks forces aiding the US in their efforts against ISIS,
it is called "Casus Foederis", again an act of war by Syria.

You defend the legitimacy of the Assad regime. I question that, most of the world question that.
I also question that the Iranian government is a true reflection of the will of the Iranian people,
since only pro Mullah politicians can be allowed to be elected.

I do not think that KSA is a model of democracy either
The fact that US is selling all arms to KSA does not mean that Sweden do it.
We only sell things like AWACS, and not fighters, guns or ammo.
Germany refused to sell Leopard tanks to KSA.

You claim there is no proof of Sarin attacks, while medical personell in Turkey has clear evidence of Sarin.
There are proof of the Syrian Army using chemical weapons as reported by UN.
It is not denied by anyone that the Syrian Air Force made a strike at the time of the release of the gas.
Russians know that the US can track all airplane movement over Syria.
The US claims they have recordings discussing the gas attack beforehand.

That the US/NATO is crushing dictators does not need to result in disaster.
The problem is that the Middle Eastern countries consistently fail to produce
leaders of the stature of Nelson Mandela.
My guess is that 90% of all Iraqis killed in Gulf War II and afterwards has been killed by other Iraqis.
That is a problem which noone cares to think about, when they are busy blaming the West.
The US did not force Iraqi Shias to adopt sectarian policies against Sunnis.

In the quest to put blame on the West, I see a lot of people putting up
a rosy shade when mentioning dictators, when in truth dictators KILL.
The PREY on their citizens, and you have people here say that they were
not so bad, which is dishonouring the victims of the dictators.

If not doing that, then they go on about the US/the West created Al-Qaeda/ISIS/Taliban/
blew up the Twin Towers/Make false flag terrorist attacks in London.
This ignores both facts and common sense.

The Facts:
The US supported, trained and armed the Mujahedin against the Soviets.
Once the Soviets left, the US left, without occupying Afghanistan.
Some Mujahedin were Muslims coming from other countries.

Usama bin Laden, one of these, created Al-Qaeda recruiting such foreigners which
had no longer a quest in Afghanistan.
UBL was pissed off, when KSA did not listen to his offer that he could defend KSA
from Iraq, when Iraq invaded Quwait.

The Taliban became a force AFTER the US left Afghanistan.
They received training inside Pakistani Madrases,
and the US is convinced the Pakistan ISI was involved.
The US forced Pakistan to join the War on Terror,
but the US has never seen that Pakistanis acted as true allies.

The core of ISIS is the Sunni regim of Saddam Hussein.
It has been recruiting inside Iraq/Syria but also within Muslim communities in the West.

Your racist posting seems to have been removed, after my report.
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It is not at all confusing.
Chill man
I am so tired
I hope you stay in same side ten years later and don't blame your current position then.
 
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Muslims seem to be growing out of touch with Islamic teachings unfortunately and making their bed with corruption and pursuit of interests. Islamic way of life is not about pursuit of interests but for the greater good of the masses.
Lol What you said is just pipe dreams with all due respect. Muslims countries like Iran or KSA haven't grown out of touch with Islamic teachings (well not in this aspect). They are merely playing geo politics as it should be played. When it comes to foriegn policy there is no such thing as "islamic foriegn policy" or "foreign policy based on Islam". Lol. It's just about each country(who just happens to be muslim) going about its national interests just like it should be.
If not Turkey wouldn't be part of western led NATO for over half a century now, Iran wouldn't be leaning more towards Christian Armenia instead of leaning more towards Muslim Azerbaijan neither will they be close partners with Christian orthodox Russia in the region, KSA and Gulf states won't be close allies of western powers like U.S/U.K and France, Pakistan would have never been close military allies with the U.S or a "blood brother ally" with Atheist(one of the most Atheist country on earth) China , etc etc I can go on and on all day.

So all his talk of islamic brotherhood foreign policy is just nonsense(obviously) and it's only used when a muslim/islamic country's ruler/regime want to gain sympathy(PR) from it's public (and naive uneducated muslims youths in the region) for its cause/actions and legitimise their regime even more. Old trick in the book. Lol .
ITS ALWAYS ABOUT INTERESTS:D.

am not an advocate of the kind of politics in which the worst scum on Earth get away with ruining the lives of millions of people because they are not willing to concede their power and find foreign support to ensure their stay
Well, if you are not an advocate or not doesn't matter to be honest. Our opinions as a common man never mattered in how countries go about their national interests. The layman has no say in it. We can only make observations and that's about it.
So you can't blame Iran for supporting Assad the butcher(as some call him) , Iran can't be blamed for his actions, just like western powers can't be blame for other dictators actions. Iran is merely going after their own national interests, I don't see anything wrong in that whatsoever(geopolitically speaking)as far as a country has the capability and influence to do so then it should seek to further it's influence and interests as much as possible. Some people might it like it, but that's how politics works. So better get use to it.

But you are saying Erdogan is wrong! And you say Erdo and FETO are alike. It's like saying Iran and SA are alike, now tell me are they?
Why do you fancy Erdogan so much? Because of his support for MB I suppose? Lol You are even arguing with and insulting that Iranian guy @OldTwilight just because he doesn't like/agree with Erdogan's foreign policy and actions. Lol. So which country(leader) are you with finally, if not Iran(Khamenei) or Turkey(Erdogan)?:D

freedom what your beloved total monarch does not have
Lol Syria has freedom? What kind of joke is that?

You are free to think any think you like.
have good orgasm with Saudis.

you are disgusting people.
You speak about democracy and freedom and then monarch and dictators are your best friend.
you accuse both of Saudis and Qataris for supporting terrorism while selling billion of dollars for them.
and you come here and speak against Iran democracy and power.
What I said is the truth though, when it comes to human rights abuses, Iran isn't any different from KSA at all. I don't understand why some of you people like throwing stones at your neighbours meanwhile you are not any better to be honest. Same with your country's(and KSA) foreign policy of sectarian proxy war in the region, you are not any different either. So what's your point? :D
 
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Lol man
Take life easy and stop interfering in Muslim country.
If you bomb Muslim you should also take responsibility of that and accept Muslim as refugees.
You can not just sell bomb and run away from it's consequences.
LOL. ...you can't just send your murdering militia and not accept any refugees.Your hypocrisy is disgusting. ...youright government keeps murdering scores ofor Syrians daily but you haven't helped one on humanitarian basis.
 
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It is going to be extremely nasty. The US has opened a Pandora's box by taking down the Syrian plane. The war in Syria just got uglier. The Russians are obviously not going to sit quite after this.
Lol only someone that's very very naive will think that Russia will engage the U.S in a war over small Assad's sake. Lool Do you even know the consequences of that? People on here like to claim war war war without even thinking things through.
Even during the height of the cold war when both superpowers were the closest to a war(hypothetically) The West never went to a direct war with Russia and vice versa despite both side engaging in far more sabre rattling and conflicts than today. So what make should think Russia will suddenly go to shooting down U.S and western fighter jets in Syria? Lol

Meanwhile US allies drive native population out of newly concuered places to ''Kurdify'' the places, people are being stripped of their possessions but these are still the good guys because US says so i guess.
Many will also say the same thing about the other FSA rebels Turkey backs I suppose. So it depends on who you ask. Syrian civil war is very complicated indeed. Lol

However, since you are a Turk i do understand your view though. :)

LOL. ...you can't just send your murdering militia and not accept any refugees.Your hypocrisy is disgusting. ...youright government keeps murdering scores ofor Syrians daily but you haven't helped one on humanitarian basis.
His hypocrisy is not more disgusting than other members on here. You expected him to say negative things about his country's involvement in Syria? Come on dude be realities.:rolleyes:

we should reorganized these people and give them opportunely to take back their lands from USA dogs ...
Will you also the take back the lands Turkish backed FSA rebel forces have seized and tajen control of? lol
 
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Brother,

Before we embark on a discussion on this topic, we need to make sure that our knowledge is up-to-date, don't you think?

1. US did not create Al-Qaeda Network

Take a look at chronology of events: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jul/13/history.alqaida

11 AUGUST 1988 Al-Qaeda is formed at a meeting attended by Bin Laden, Zawahiri and Dr Fadl in Peshawar, Pakistan. The creation of the group brings together extraordinary Saudi wealth, the expertise of a lifetime Egyptian militant, and a philosophical foundation for jihad from a Cairo intellectual

Corroborated by: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/al-qaeda-aka-al-qaida-al-qaida

2. I condemn both US and Taliban for not being pragmatic in the matters of foreign policy.

My point-of-view is that Taliban welcomed Al-Qaeda Network into its fold:

There is no single headquarters. From 1991 to 1996, al-Qaeda worked out of Pakistan along the Afghan border, or inside Pakistani cities. During the Taliban’s reign al-Qaeda shifted its base of operations into Afghanistan. To escape the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan, al-Qaeda’s leadership once again sought refuge in Pakistan’s tribal areas after September 11, 2001.

Source: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/al-qaeda-aka-al-qaida-al-qaida

You can find more information in following links:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/apr/29/bin-laden-al-qaida-taliban-contact
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/29/opinions/bergen-mullah-omar/index.html
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...n/news-story/48b9504c35ed40d75f693dcc1e6bc808

Insight from Rahimullah Yusufzai:

http://america.aljazeera.com/articl...-mission-to-restore-peace-in-Afghanistan.html


Democracy can work in Afghanistan but Taliban does not wants to embrace this political system because it threatens its grip on power in Afghanistan and casts doubt on its claims of legitimacy over much of Afghanistan. If Taliban stops fighting the Afghan government, this country will return to normalcy very soon.

Question should be: why Taliban is afraid of elections? If it enjoys considerable local support, no better way to prove this than with votes.

Problem is that Taliban have splintered into a number of groups. Some have joined ISIS; some have joined Afghan government; and some continue to resist both.

You can find more information in following links:

http://www.centcom.mil/MEDIA/NEWS-A...-contained-taliban-fracturing-in-afghanistan/
http://fp.brecorder.com/2015/09/201509061224472/
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes...isil-taliban-afghanistan-151101074041755.html

Also check Who are the Taliban? from BBC - very informative.

INTERESTING BIT:

The greatest fear of both ISIL and the Taliban is armed drones - many of their fighters have died in drone attacks in recent months - so they make every effort to avoid coming together in large numbers.

Source: http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes...isil-taliban-afghanistan-151101074041755.html

Who says those drone strikes are not hitting the real culprits?


Yes: Democracy.

We choose democracy for ourselves but not for Afghans? We are not sincere in our dealings with Afghans then.


Proof?


Check the links cited above.

Mullah Omar was not accepting American terms.


I understand the difference and I am also aware of the fact that Taliban has splintered and scores of its fighters have joined ISIS.

You cannot expect good from Taliban. Ever.


They lost their way with passage of time.


Foreign interventions do not address 'sectarian problems' lurking beneath the facade of oppressive regimes in states where stability is ensured through brute force but as soon as those regimes are toppled, sectarian fault lines emerge in full force.

US occupied Germany, Japan and South Korea as well but these states not only recovered from devastating wars but are role models of development and prosperity at present. Ever wondered why? Because people in these states learned lessons from their past experiences and renowned violence for the greater good of the society.

Conversely, Muslims are way too splintered and selfish to learn from their experiences, cast aside their differences and work for the greater good of society. What lessons have Iraqi, Afghans and Libyans drawn from invasions and subsequent destruction? NOTHING.

Americans have given them a template for governance to run their affairs but these societies are way too fractured to embrace it.
I am busy right now will give you detailed response on the points raised ...

Putting just one fact here for your information ...

Al. Qaeda was created in 1988 before colllapse of soviet union by persons which were being presented as hero by US as they were fighting against Russia ... but all of them were already active in Afghanistan much earlier than before had connections and support from ISI and CIA ...

Not only Al qaeda but many other groups were formed in Pakistan and Afghanistan and they kept their head quarter inside Pakistan till collapse of Soviet Union as to keep their resistance brain out of reach of aoviet union ...

All these groups were direct result of US support against Russia ...

Talinan were no where in the scene in Afghanistan till 1994. They appear as a force in 1994 and gain much power just in 2 years in that process they allowed all groups that were fighting in afghanistan against russia to settle in afghanistan and started the reconcilation process and that act started brinnging stability in Afghanistan ... but Taliban had no control over these groups and can you tell me is there could be any better strategy in country having civil war since 3 decades ?

So al qaeda was always there in afghanistan under different name but taliban cam jnto scene in 1994 and they were basically not from those fighter groups but member of monestary that had links with thise foghter froups as well ...

I will continue my response later ...
 
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The minority is right when they of your kind and they are wrong when they are the ones you dislike, I've nothing but pity for you.
we're not minority in iraq but your like are that's why they wage their filthy and cowardly war backed by your like from the Gulf and turkey plus the west

look weather you like it or not we will rule and we will lead and your like nothing but cows to be milked all you are just sectarian.
 
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The minority is right when they of your kind and they are wrong when they are the ones you dislike, I've nothing but pity for you.



Why do you fancy sisi the mafia boss so much? Has it ever occurred to you that all people do not share your aristocratic vision of the world?





Perhaps they are like the west which preaches democracy by propping up sisi type thugs whe they find it in their INTEREST. So, which side are you on, democracy and human rights you preach or despots you prop up?
Unless You change the comments made by @mike2000 is back that look like they come from me, You will be reported.
 
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While going at it, why not abolish the idea of India and Pakistan.
It is not really working is it.
Have the Queen appoint a new Governor.
Bingo, Kashmir problem solved.

Hahaha brother thats totally out of context ... india pakistan is entierly different issue and connot be merged ...

Masses of Pakistan very happy after segregation and Kashmir is fighting for segregation from India ...

Pakistan was not created out of lust for power ... it was created due to difference between hindu and muslims ...
 
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I am busy right now will give you detailed response on the points raised ...

Putting just one fact here for your information ...

Al. Qaeda was created in 1988 before colllapse of soviet union by persons which were being presented as hero by US as they were fighting against Russia ... but all of them were already active in Afghanistan much earlier than before had connections and support from ISI and CIA ...

Not only Al qaeda but many other groups were formed in Pakistan and Afghanistan and they kept their head quarter inside Pakistan till collapse of Soviet Union as to keep their resistance brain out of reach of aoviet union ...

All these groups were direct result of US support against Russia ...

Talinan were no where in the scene in Afghanistan till 1994. They appear as a force in 1994 and gain much power just in 2 years in that process they allowed all groups that were fighting in afghanistan against russia to settle in afghanistan and started the reconcilation process and that act started brinnging stability in Afghanistan ... but Taliban had no control over these groups and can you tell me is there could be any better strategy in country having civil war since 3 decades ?

So al qaeda was always there in afghanistan under different name but taliban cam jnto scene in 1994 and they were basically not from those fighter groups but member of monestary that had links with thise foghter froups as well ...

I will continue my response later ...


Maybe a lot of people should read Musharrafs memoirs.

http://apnaorg.com/books/english/line-of-fire/line-of-fire.pdf

Al-Qaeda may have existed since 1988, but only as a shell.
The real growth of Al-Qaeda is, according to Musharraf happening in 1996.
That is when Usama bin Laden establishes Training Camps in Afghanistan.
The core of Al-Qaeda came from Arabs fighting the Soviets in the 1980s.
That is not the same as saying "the US created Al-Qaeda"

IMG_1619.jpg

Musharraf claims that Pakistan and ISI created and supported the Taliban.
He believes, when doing so, they were used by Mullah Omar, and they later
lost control over the Taliban.

He depicts the Taliban regime as awful.

IMG_1618.jpg


He also confirm that the Taliban supported Al-Qaeda, since day one of Al-Qaeda
attacks against the US, and thus the US could LEGALLY attack Afghanistan since 1998.
Laws of War require that countries intern fighters of a belligerent army.


IMG_1617.jpg
 
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who told you that?
Referendums after referendums!!! Elections after elections!!! For the last 15 years, it's been always Reis Erdo'an!!!! No coups, no putsches, no nothing is working against him even when all of the western powers have joined together collecting all the domestic and international proxies, traitors, minions etc. on the way!!! Bring it on!!!!!
 
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we're not minority in iraq

Yes I know and that is why according to you the minorities in Iraq are always wrong.


look weather you like it or not we will rule and we will lead and your like nothing but cows to be milked all you are just sectarian.

Yes, we know that you think it is your sacred right to rule even if most Syrians don't want you and a sectarian person like you says that it is because the majority of people are sectarian. As I said I've nothing but pity for you.
 
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Lol Syria has freedom? What kind of joke is that?
Lol, Persian gulf monarchs have freedom?What kind of joke is that?
What I said is the truth though, when it comes to human rights abuses, Iran isn't any different from KSA at all. I don't understand why some of you people like throwing stones at your neighbours meanwhile you are not any better to be honest. Same with your country's(and KSA) foreign policy of sectarian proxy war in the region, you are not any different either. So what's your point? :D
Oh dear mike, I feel your loss in you voice.
putting us along Saudis is last thing that smart guy can do.
LOL. ...you can't just send your murdering militia and not accept any refugees.Your hypocrisy is disgusting. ...youright government keeps murdering scores ofor Syrians daily but you haven't helped one on humanitarian basis.
Oh, go and educate yourselves, Iran is helping Syria and that is b/c of Syria gov request.
First of all, Syrian are free to come Iran but most of them prefer to go Europe while they don't have border with us and should cross ISIS territory to reach Iran; also nobody can denied that you are in better economic situation rather than us and refugees can have better life.
Secondly, Iran take great responsibility about refuges which you made with your stupid wars in middle east and UN pries and appreciate Iran effort to help refuges from both Afghanistan and Iraq which you made and didn't take responsibility of it.
you and @mike2000 is back are putting us with KSA in same side of coin and that anger me a lot.

take read millions of refugees
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...mplary-un-praise-united-nations-a7633621.html


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-4319066/UN-praises-Irans-exemplary-refugee-efforts.html

specially this part
That's the fourth-largest refugee population in the world, the UN says.

 
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