U.S. pivot to Asia: How China Can Turn The Table

[xunzi]

Yes and why should we not i mean if stealing is stealing why wait right but why are you comparing yourselves to other superpowers while clearly you are just a regional power? heck you can't even compare to Japan let alone to the America? I found it funny that you people keep insisting you are the victims here while the whole world already knows you the aggressor i mean seriously placing military bases near the Philippines not a aggressive military act i don't know what is? in the scale of 1 to f how f are you people.

So taking East Turkmenistan and Tibet was just right huh. And please do tell how can brainwash puppet of his government became an expert on other peoples history?

You are too stupid and low IQ for me. You need to let a high-IQ, intelligent Philippine to discuss the issue with me.

There are currently 2 countries, , USA and the other is Russia, that we respect militarily. Japan? LOL We been ******* camping in their administered water for months. If it is our water that we administer, those intruders were get their *** shot when approaching. Just ask the Vietnamese and of course, your country for that.

 

[NiceGuy]

You are too stupid and low IQ for me. You need to let a high-IQ, intelligent Philippine to discuss the issue with me.

There are currently 2 countries, , USA and the other is Russia, that we respect militarily. Japan? LOL We been ******* camping in their administered water for months. If it is our water that we administer, those intruders were get their *** shot when approaching. Just ask the Vietnamese and of course, your country for that.

Taiwan is your China's water ,but if u come so close, US's dogs there will bite u to death

stop your Big mouth and see how coward u are in your own territory TW

Dog r not allowed

 

[BoQ77]

We suppose to feel sympathy for your countrymen for their betrayal? We did what the Soviet would have done which is to shoot when approaching territory that administrated by us.

...And the US rejected Uncle Ho, am I right? Tell me how the US respect your will? If they respect your will, they wouldn't intervene in your country domestic affair to create a puppet regime and impose sanction on your country and never truly aid your country in any shape or form. Believe it or not, had you not having a dispute with China, the US wouldn't even bother to look at you in the eyes.

Do you even know what a TPP even suppose to mean politically to even bring that up to me?

Disputed islands is NOT exact your territory, if discuss we should go to meeting or court.
You couldnot avoid the fact that China get those island by violence, by killing other countries residents, troops.
Like in Paracels and Spratlys

Is that the way of getting your so-called territory ? Russian seem to be nice, not doing like that

We spend much of time to pursue for peaceful discussion but failed,
We must rely on another power who could help us : 1, keeping our current island and sea ; 2, ..................
with the condition : they would not take advantage of our land and sea as the way China did.

We love your early communists, Chinese friends

Historically, before the 20th century, Bach Long Vi island was not inhabited due to the lack of water resource .[3]

During the World War II, Japanese army forced the French out of Indochina and seized the island.

In 1949, the Chinese Communist won the Chinese Civil War against the Chiang Kai-shek's army.

In 1955 the People's Republic of China drove the Chiang Kai-shek's army away and seized the island.[3]

On January 16, 1957, China's government transferred the island to North Vietnam's government.[3] On that day, the Prime Minister of Vietnam signed the Decree number 49/Ttg which stipulated that Bạch Long Vĩ island is a “Xã” (Village) and belong to Haiphong City. In this year, a Fish Farm Co-operative (Hợp tác xã Nông ng&#432, which had 93 workers and 22 hectares of land and 13 ships, was established in this island.[3]

On December 9, 1992, Vietnamese government signed the Decree Number 15/NĐ/CP which stipulated that Bạch Long Vĩ island is a district which belongs to the city of Hai Phong.

In the convention on Gulf of Tonkin signed between the Vietnamese government and the Chinese government, China respects the Vietnamese sovereignty over the island and there is no dispute over the island[6]

Back to pre-1975, we know China betrayed Soviet and Vietnam by secretly cooperate with US,
1. US agree for China occupy Paracels islands ( US betrayed allied South Vietnam ), while US no action
2. China feed Khmer Rouge, the force get supports moral and weapon, food from some countries of ASEAN ), direct supplier is Thailand ( US backed )
We could say Vietnam get limited support only from Soviet Union at that time
3. When Sino -Viet event 1979 happen, China know they cannot win, before retreat, They warned to Vietnam not to harm their withdrawal ...Hanoi agreed.
ASEAN and US aftermath claim China to respect Vietnam sovereign but still not condemn China ...
--------
We think the history will prove our attacks to Khmer Rouge is right
Who support Khmer Rouge after they ruled Cambodia and killed their own people, Chinese resident, Vietnam resident ... is totally wrong

 

[xunzi]

Disputed islands is NOT exact your territory, if discuss we should go to meeting or court.
You couldnot avoid the fact that China get those island by violence, by killing other countries residents, troops.
Like in Paracels and Spratlys

Is that the way of getting your so-called territory ? Russian seem to be nice, not doing like that

We spend much of time to pursue for peaceful discussion but failed,
We must rely on another power who could help us : 1, keeping our current island and sea ; 2, ..................
with the condition : they would not take advantage of our land and sea as the way China did.

We love your early communists, Chinese friends

Back to post-1975, we know China betrayed Soviet and Vietnam by secretly cooperate with US,
1. US agree for China occupy Paracels islands ( US betrayed allied South Vietnam ), while US no action
2. China feed Khmer Rouge, the force get supports moral and weapon, food from some countries of ASEAN ), direct supplier is Thailand ( US backed )
We could say Vietnam get limited support only from Soviet Union at that time
3. When Sino -Viet event 1979 happen, China know they cannot win, before retreat, They warned to Vietnam not to harm their withdrawal ...Hanoi agreed.
ASEAN and US aftermath claim China to respect Vietnam sovereign but still not condemn China ...
--------
We think the history will prove our attacks to Khmer Rouge is right
Who support Khmer Rouge after they ruled Cambodia and killed their own people, Chinese resident, Vietnam resident ... is totally wrong

We have said many times that we are willing to discuss and negotiate the dispute territories with relevant party bilaterally. It is you guys who continue to cry to the international community.

Spratlys is not a single island. it is a multitude of small islands and rocks of which your country controls the most while we control the big, key island. Paracel is a dispute island, which mean whoever is powerful can take and control it. Last I check, your current North Vietnam regime who rule Vietnam today said Paracel belongs to China. You can't flip flop on official words.

Russian is the biggest land grabber in the 20th century and they are smart enough to do it during chaotic time and they are reward with being the biggest country by land mass.

Action but not talking. We always welcome peaceful discussion.

South China Sea had always been a commercially free region. We oppose you to unilaterally conduct drilling for resources in dispute area. You must do it with China as we are part of a dispute.

1. First of all, if you are talking strictly about the Communist blocs with regarding to the Marxism Theory, Soviet is the one who betrayed Marxist which led to the China-Soviet split. You, Vietnam, then pick the Soviet over China. We respond by semi-collaborate with the Western World to control you and Soviet from expanding in Southeast Asia.

2. I know you Vietnamese are not knowledgeable about history but you MUST LEARN about the Khmer Rouge origin. It started with the North Vietnamese. You Vietnamese are actually the one who create the Khmer Rouge while China/US support them for our own interest.

3. Is this how Vietnamese love to lie? You know this is an international forum right where people can check and read history on it? You Vietnamese are shameless to lie. We never said anything about cannot win. We said the 1979 attack on Vietnam explicitly is to teach the "Vietnamese" from trying to dominate Southeast Asia and pave the way for your master, Soviet, to influence the area. Implicitly, we attack you to test the Soviet's resolve. This is why we attacked you immediately 3 days after the Soviet signed a mutual defense treaty with you. No amount of lying can change historical facts. I'm sorry, Vietnamese friend!

You create Khmer Rouge, you destroyed it after they turn against you. Didn't you forget you and Khmer Rouge were ally during the French War and war with the US in 1960s? Many top Khmer Rouge initially are Vietnamese ethnic!

 

[BoQ77]

We have said many times that we are willing to discuss and negotiate the dispute territories with relevant party bilaterally. It is you guys who continue to cry to the international community.

Spratlys is not a single island. it is a multitude of small islands and rocks of which your country controls the most while we control the big, key island. Paracel is a dispute island, which mean whoever is powerful can take and control it.
You say no truth, China killed our men to control some small rocks in Spratlys, and if we get the US support, we would take back the Paracels, and you could cry that US betrayed you

Last I check, your current North Vietnam regime who rule Vietnam today said Paracel belongs to China. You can't flip flop on official words.

Russian is the biggest land grabber in the 20th century and they are smart enough to do it during chaotic time and they are reward with being the biggest country by land mass.

Action but not talking. We always welcome peaceful discussion.

South China Sea had always been a commercially free region. We oppose you to unilaterally conduct drilling for resources in dispute area. You must do it with China as we are part of a dispute.

1. First of all, if you are talking strictly about the Communist blocs with regarding to the Marxism Theory, Soviet is the one who betrayed Marxist which led to the China-Soviet split. You, Vietnam, then pick the Soviet over China. We respond by semi-collaborate with the Western World to control you and Soviet from expanding in Southeast Asia.
So you agree that your country is betrayal ??

2. I know you Vietnamese are not knowledgeable about history but you MUST LEARN about the Khmer Rouge origin. It started with the North Vietnamese. You Vietnamese are actually the one who create the Khmer Rouge while China/US support them for our own interest.
In your opinion, what's the Vietnamese Communism origin ? From China ?
In my opinion, there's no creation, but Communism is the international issue, who interested then attend ... don't say it's from a small country like Vietnam.


3. Is this how Vietnamese love to lie? You know this is an international forum right where people can check and read history on it? You Vietnamese are shameless to lie. We never said anything about cannot win. We said the 1979 attack on Vietnam explicitly is to teach the "Vietnamese" from trying to dominate Southeast Asia and pave the way for your master, Soviet, to influence the area. Implicitly, we attack you to test the Soviet's resolve. This is why we attacked you immediately 3 days after the Soviet signed a mutual defense treaty with you. No amount of lying can change historical facts. I'm sorry, Vietnamese friend!
!

You don't know or you ignore ? Your attacks carried out after Treaty between Soviet Union and you expired.
The Treaty regulates that you cannot attack Soviet Union ally.

And you worried about the threat that Soviet Union could attack you after The Treaty ended and no sign again.

We understand why you do that because before that time the spirit of international communism broken by you ( control the Khmer Rouge to attack Vietnam border 1978 in The South of Vietnam, plan with Nixon to occupy our Paracels 1972-1974 in SCS, attack Vietnam 1979 in the North of Vietnam )

Everybody think that whether Vietnam lost or not our country into China or Khmer Rouge under China's control ? if we have no action ??

 

[danger007]

Seriously dude, you're making yourself looking stupid. It's your prerogative to be stupid, I respect that.

you are unbeatable... he is no comparison for you...

 

[BoQ77]

For your information

1. China support Vietnam in Vietnam war to stabilize their Southern from French, US ... it's true until now, because whoever China cooperate with, they always worry about the threat of these superpower : Russian and Us
2. A country like Vietnam after such a long war, always need economic aid to re-structure the economics and re-construct the infrastructure ... so we have no choice but choose a big country who ready to give ...
3. Nixon - who ever promise to give Vietnam the US aid over 4 billions USD after 1973, lied to us... I'm not sure what happen if US keep their promise and continue cooperate with Vietnam.

The Nixon Letter

As the negotiations to end the Vietnam War progressed through 1972, the North Vietnamese and their "Viet Cong" allies became more and more obstinate. Nixon decided to put on some serious pressure in late 1972. US forces mined the harbor of Haiphong, North Vietnam's main port, and we unleashed a horrendous bombing campaign, the "Christmas bombing" of December 1972. These actions got their attention. For example, the mining of Haiphong almost stopped the flow of equipment and munitions from the Soviet Union and East Europe to the point that, when the Christmas bombing started, Vietnamese missile units were running out of surface-to-air missiles.

The North Vietnamese had often raised the issue of paying to rebuild Vietnam. They made these points:

The US undoubtedly would help to rebuild South Vietnam, leaving the North to fend for themselves. (Shows you how much they trusted their Soviet and Chinese friends.
A post-war North Vietnam, with serious war damage, could never hope to be a full partner in economic progress, thus, rebuilding North Vietnam was in everyone's interest.
The US had rebuilt Germany and Japan, each of whom had inflicted more damage on the US than had North Vietnam.

At some point, Kissinger and Nixon persuaded the North Vietnamese that, if they would reach a peace agreement, the US would make a statement of some kind regarding rebuilding North Vietnam. On January 27, 1973, the Paris Peace Accords were signed. On February 1, 1973, President Nixon sent the following letter to North Vietnamese Prime Minister Pham Van Dong.

Reproduced below is the "Nixon letter." Actually, what is reproduced below is a State Department news bulletin in which State released the Nixon letter. To make reading easier, I have highlighted the letter in green type.
Follows the full text of the 1977 Department of State release containing the "Nixon Letter."

Department Of State Bulletin
Vol. 76 - No. 1983
June 27, 1977

Former President Nixon's Message to Prime Minister Pham Van Dong

Department Announcement

The Department released on May 19, 1977, the text of a message dated February 1, 1973, from former President Nixon to the Prime Minister of the former Democratic Republic of Vietnam, Mr. Pham Van Dong. The existence and substance of this document have already been made public, including public references by the recipient. Its author has indicated no obligation to its release. In light of all present circumstances, we have determined that the message is no longer deemed sensitive, and it has been declassified.

TEXT OF MESSAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO THE PRIME MINISTER OF THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM.

February 1, 1973

The President wishes to inform the Democratic Republic of Vietnam of the principles which will govern United States participation in the postwar reconstruction of North Vietnam. As indicated in Article 21 of The Agreement on Ending the War and Restoring Peace in Vietnam signed in Paris on January 27, 1973, the United States undertakes this participation in accordance with its traditional policies. These principles are as follows:

1) The Government of the United States of America will contribute to postwar reconstruction in North Vietnam without any political conditions.

2) Preliminary United States studies indicate that the appropriate programs for the United States contribution to postwar reconstruction will fall in the range of $3.25 billion of grant aid over five years. Other forms of aid will be agreed upon between the two parties. This estimate is subject to revision and to detailed discussion between the Government of the United States and the Government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam.

3) The United States will propose to the Democratic Republic of Vietnam the establishment of a United States-North Vietnamese Joint Economic Commission within 30 days from the date of this message.

4) The function of this Commission will be to develop programs for the United States contribution to reconstruction of North Vietnam. This United States contribution will be based upon such factors as:

(a) The needs of North Vietnam arising from the dislocation of war;

(b) The requirements for postwar reconstruction in the agricultural and industrial sectors of North Vietnam's economy.

5) The Joint Economic Commission will have an equal number of representatives from each side. It will agree upon a mechanism to administer the program which will constitute the United States contribution to the reconstruction of North Vietnam. The Commission will attempt to complete this agreement within 60 days after its establishment.

6) The two members of the Commission will function on the principle of respect for each other's sovereignty, non-interference in each other's internal affairs, equality and mutual benefit. The officers of the Commission will be located at a place to be agreed upon by the United States and the Democratic Republic of Vietnam.

7) The United States considers that the implementation of the foregoing principles will promote economic, trade and other relations between the United States of America and the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and will contribute to insuring a stable and lasting peace in Indochina. These principles accord with the spirit of Chapter VIII of The Agreement on Ending the War and Restoring Peace in Vietnam which was signed in Paris on January 27, 1973.

UNDERSTANDING REGARDING ECONOMIC RECONSTRUCTION PROGRAM

It is understood that the recommendations of the Joint Economic Commission mentioned in the President's note to the Prime Minister will be implemented by each member in accordance with its own constitutional provisions.

NOTE REGARDING OTHER FORMS OF AID

In regard to other forms of aid, United States studies indicate that the appropriate programs could fall in the range of 1 to 1.5 billion dollars depending on food and other commodity needs of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam.
End of the full text of the 1977 Department of State release containing the "Nixon Letter."

Following the conquest of South Vietnam in 1975, Hanoi sought to retain the equilibrium of its wartime relations with both China and the Soviet Union, but mounting tensions with Beijing, culminating in the loss of Chinese aid in 1978, compelled Hanoi to look increasingly to Moscow for economic and military assistance. Beginning in late 1975, a number of significant agreements were signed between the two countries. One coordinated the national economic development plans of the two countries, and another called for the Soviet Union to underwrite Vietnam's first post-reunification Five-Year Plan. The first formal alliance was achieved in June 1978 when Vietnam joined Comecon. That organization, which facilitated the economic integration of the Soviet Union, six East European countries, Cuba, and Mongolia, was able to offer economic assistance for some of the projects abandoned by China.

Vietnam's decision to invade Cambodia, which the leadership apparently made shortly after joining Comecon, required more than economic assistance from the Soviets. The possibility of a formal alliance between Hanoi and Moscow had apparently been discussed since 1975, but the Vietnamese had rejected the idea in order to protect their relationship with China. In 1978 that relationship had deteriorated to the point where protecting it was no longer a consideration, and circumstances in Cambodia confirmed the need for Vietnamese-Soviet military cooperation. In spite of Vietnam's needs, it is likely that the November 1978 Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation was imposed by the Soviets as a condition for military assistance. As a result of the treaty, the Vietnamese granted the Soviets access to the facilities at Da Nang and Cam Ranh Bay. Use of the bases represented a substantial regional strategic gain for Moscow, whose naval bases in the Pacific Ocean, until then, had been limited to the Soviet Far East.

Soviet support sustained Vietnamese operations in Cambodia. Military aid in 1978 approached US$800 million annually, but after the Vietnamese invasion of Cambodia and the Chinese attack on Vietnam in February 1979, the figure rose to almost US$1.4 billion. The sharp increase, reflecting the Soviet effort to replace quickly Vietnamese equipment losses on the SinoVietnamese border, was subsequently reduced to between US$800 and 900 million in 1980 and between US$900 million and 1 billion in 1981. Military aid increased to 1.7 billion annually in the 1982- 85 period, and decreased to an estimated US$1.5 billion in 1985. Reported Soviet dissatisfaction with Hanoi's handling of Cambodia, stemming from the stalemated battlefield situation and its high costs, did not appear to affect Moscow's decision to continue to provide assistance for the war. At the end of 1987, there was no indication that the Soviets were pressing Vietnam to resolve the conflict.

In addition to its role as Vietnam's exclusive donor of military aid, the Soviet Union in 1987 was also Vietnam's largest contributor of economic aid and its biggest trade partner. During the Third Five-Year Plan (1981-85), the Soviets provided some US$5.4 billion in balance-of-payments aid, project assistance, and oil price subsidies. Total economic aid for 1986 was an estimated US$1.8 billion. The Soviets also have been a major supplier of food and commodity aid on a mostly grant-aid or softcurrency basis. By 1983 they were supplying 90 percent of Vietnam's petroleum, iron and steel, fertilizer, and cotton imports and 70 percent of its grain imports.

 

[BoQ77]

At last USA will transfer nuclear technology to Vietnam

Steve Herman

October 10, 2013
BRUNEI — At the East Asian Summit in Brunei, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Vietnamese Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh signed a so-called 123 accord.

If signed by President Obama and subsequently not blocked by the U.S. Congress, the agreement would allow American atomic energy firms into Vietnam in exchange for Hanoi's pledge not to enrich its own uranium.

A senior U.S. State Department official noted Vietnam "has taken steps towards the development of a robust domestic infrastructure to support its nuclear-power generation program," and that with this agreement "Vietnam has signed on to the strongest global standards of non-proliferation."

Secretary Kerry told Vietnamese Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung just minutes after signing the agreement that, "it would create numerous opportunities for our businesses between our two countries. And obviously our nuclear cooperation is quite significant.”

Kerry also told the Vietnamese leader that he looked forward to visiting his country “somewhere in the next few months.”


Kerry: Mr. Pham - Now we're friends. We caught you and never loose you again into Chinese, Russian hands

Pham Binh Minh : We are happy to be in US hands ... LOL

 

[Zero_wing]

Good the Alliance is working out time to set the net

 

[BoQ77]

Good the Alliance is working out time to set the net

U.S. Considers Removing Lethal Weapon Ban for Vietnam
Published on Wednesday, August 7, 2013 8:39 PM // English, New articles

Sao Khue - The U.S. will consider lifting its lethal weapon embargo against Vietnam if the communist government can meet some conditions set by the U.S., said David B. Shear, U.S. Ambassador in Hanoi.

Speaking at a press briefing in Hanoi on Aug 7, Ambassador Shear said that one condition is an improvement in Vietnam’s human rights record, which shows positive signs in the first half of this year.


The U.S. Ambassador in Vietnam David B. Shear.

The ban removal will be part of the diplomatic relations upgrade in which the two countries agreed to establish comprehensive partnership, he noted. The decision to elevate relationship to a higher level was reached during the visit of Vietnamese President Truong Tan Sang to Washington in late July.

In the coming time, as the two countries build closer ties, Vietnam and the U.S. will sign a number of agreements, including agreements on civil nuclear usage and Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), he noted.

Along with enhancing bilateral cooperation in economics, the U.S. wants to boost ties in defense as well as help Vietnam deal with the remaining war consequences, Ambassador Shear noted.

Vietnam has long expressed its wish for the U.S. to remove the lethal weapon embargo as part of the communist nation’s plan to strengthen defense capacity amid rising tensions in the East Sea, where China has become more aggressive in solidifying its illegal claim of nearly the entire sea.

* Sao Khue is a Hanoi-based blogger and contributor of HoiDanChu.org.

Top U.S. Marine wants back in Vietnam
Posted By Kevin Baron Tuesday, February 5, 2013 - 5:08 PM Share
Within the next few years, U.S. Marines could once again be knee deep in the rice paddies of Vietnam.

Gen. James Amos, commandant of the Marine Corps, said he would like to see Marines training in Vietnam. His remarks came while speaking to local reporters at a conference in San Diego last week.

Amos said he wanted to see additional Marines training on the ground in Vietnam and other locations around the Pacific as part of the U.S. military’s pivot toward Asia.

“I’m optimistic,” Amos said about the possibility of getting back into Vietnam. “We’re not training in Vietnam, but I would hope that someday down the road through relationships that we build over the next year or two that we’ll be able to train in Vietnam.”

Vietnam has drawn keen interest in the Pentagon, which wants agreements for American warships to use Cam Ranh Bay, a strategic harbor in Southeast Asia. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta visited the bay aboard U.S. naval sealift ship, last summer. In a moment of bluster in the harbor, Panetta recalled a line from the movie “Master and Commander,” saying “The captain of the ship says, ‘We may be a long way from England, but this ship is England.’ Well, this ship is the United States.”

Amos last week said Marines already are fulfilling his goal to expand training in the Pacific. Two new F-18 squadrons already are flying off of Tinian Island, in the Northern Mariana Islands, north from Guam. The Marines, he said proudly, evoking an even earlier American war in the Pacific, once again are taxiing down the same runway used by the Enola Gay, the World War II B-29 bomber that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Japan.

The squadrons on Tinian are living under “very austere conditions,” Amos said. For now, the Marines in training are “limited,” he said, “but there.”