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U.S. Effort to Help India Build Up Navy Hits Snag

americans don't know anything about aircraft carriers with brahmos.

Maybe not BrahMos specifically, but the Americans are familiar with heavy aircraft carrying missile cruisers like Kuznetsov and her kin.



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kuz4_0.jpg


While a quick-mod has opened up Kuznetsov a bit allowing for more space to store aircraft, the P-700 tubes in the flight deck are slated to be completely removed in a future refit, likely done once Kuznetsov returns from the Syrian theater.

The P-700 is another large, fast missiles like BrahMos and was its predecessor.

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To say the Americans aren't familiar with missile carrying aircraft carriers, armed with weapons like BrahMos might not be as accurate as it seems. They are very familiar with Kuznetsov, and frankly, so is most of Europe.

(U)_Kuznetsov_16.t58051fb8.m1600.x8fac747a.jpg


IMG_1135.t5806feba.m1600.x7c8de11c.jpg


The Norwegian Navy and Air Force took these pics as Kuznetsov and her task group transited the Norwegian and North Seas enroute to Syria.
 
Well , isn't four too many ....for mighty Indian super power...

Hmmmmm well you tell me, Pakistan is not our only source of concern have a look the map and compare the 2, then you will realise there is a need for 10 more, Given the vastness of the bay of Bengal, South Indian ocean and the Arabian sea.

4 At present is a conservative amount, also we have the resources to acquire them.
 
U.S. Effort to Help India Build Up Navy Hits Snag

Setbacks for New Delhi’s first homemade aircraft carrier slow efforts to face China on high seas


By DANIEL STACEY

Updated Nov. 30, 2016 6:46 a.m. ET

NEW DELHI—When top American naval engineers recently inspected India’s first locally made aircraft carrier they expected to find a near battle-ready ship set to help counter China’s growing sway in the Indian Ocean.

Instead, they discovered the carrier wouldn’t be operational for up to a decade and other shortcomings: no small missile system to defend itself, a limited ability to launch sorties and no defined strategy for how to use the ship in combat. The findings alarmed U.S. officials hoping to enlist India as a bulwark against China, people close to the meeting said.

“China’s navy will be the biggest in the world soon, and they’re definitely eyeing the Indian Ocean with ports planned in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh,” said retired Admiral Arun Prakash, the former commander of India’s navy. “The Indian navy is concerned about this.”

The February carrier inspection, in the port of Kochi, formed part of U.S. plans to share aircraft carrier technology with India. Indian naval officials followed up with a tour of an American shipbuilding yard in Virginia and strategy briefings at the Pentagon in September, the people close to the meetings said.

The U.S. and India are drawing closer politically and militarily. The two have participated in joint naval exercises with Japan. The U.S. has agreed to sell New Delhi everything from attack helicopters to artillery. Washington has approved proposals by Lockheed Martin and Boeing Co. to make advanced jet fighters in India. And in August, the two countries signed a military logistics-sharing accord.

The emerging relationship has reshaped Asia’s geopolitical terrain, riling China, which has issued diplomatic complaints over the joint exercises, and sometimes sidelining Russia, long India’s largest supplier of military hardware.

Both Indian and American officials say they hope cooperation will grow under President-elect Donald Trump, who has signaled a tougher approach toward China. After the U.S. election, the American Ambassador to India said the ties forged with India under PresidentBarack Obama were “irreversible.”

The centerpiece of the military cooperation are the aircraft carriers.

“Of all the U.S.’s efforts to cooperate with India’s military, the aircraft carrier project is the one with the biggest potential payout and could make the biggest difference to the regional balance of power,” said Ashley Tellis of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and a former U.S. adviser in New Delhi.

But U.S. concerns are growing about India’s military strategy. Experts worry New Delhi’s insistence on building complex military gear largely from scratch, a legacy of its period of nonalignment, has led to severe delays in modernizing its carriers, jet fighters and nuclear submarines and limited its ability to fight.

A Indian Defense Ministry spokesman declined to comment beyond saying that its aircraft carriers were “still under progress.” A Navy spokesman declined to comment. Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar recently reiterated a commitment to indigenous manufacturing, citing concerns that foreign supply of arms and ammunition could be cut off in a time of war. “I think self-dependence is very important,” he said.

China, meanwhile, is rapidly expanding its military forces. It launched its first aircraft carrier in 2012 and is building two more. Chinese state-owned companies have invested in strategic ports circling the Indian Ocean in Sri Lanka, Myanmar and Pakistan, that have resupplied its naval vessels. And China is now building its first overseas military outpost in Djibouti.

Chinese officials have rejected assertions that they are pursuing military objectives in the Indian Ocean, saying submarines resupplying in Sri Lanka were heading to the Gulf of Aden on antipiracy missions.

India, for its part, pledged funding last year for a new port in Iran where India’s own ships could potentially resupply for Indian Ocean missions. And it is seeking to match China’s naval force by adding two Indian-built carriers to the Russian one it now operates.

The first homemade Indian carrier, the INS Vikrant, has fallen short of expectations. An Indian state audit, released in July, found serious faults in its design and construction, from gear boxes to jet launching systems and air conditioning units.

The shipyard building the carrier, which has already cost $3 billion, “had no previous experience of warship construction” and is five years behind schedule, the audit said. India’s military sticks by its 2018 deadline.

Other experts said the ship’s hull was built before the navy had decided on some of the weapons systems, likely hampering its eventual performance. India’s homemade Tejas jet fighters, which are slated to fly from the Vikrant alongside squadrons of Russian jets, are also struggling to take off and land with an adequate payload on a simulated flight deck where they are being tested, people familiar with its testing said.

The upshot, these experts say: the carrier’s defensive flaws make it unlikely to able to operate in important theaters like the Persian Gulf or off the eastern coast of Africa, outside of the protective range of India’s land-based air force.

Still, the U.S. Navy plans to step up cooperation, pinning its hopes on India’s second homemade carrier, which promises to be far larger and contain more advanced technology. While carriers are losing their relevancy with the proliferation of cheap antiship missiles and advanced attack submarines, they are still likely to remain at the core of most major navies for some decades.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-effort-to-help-india-build-up-navy-hits-snag-1480501812
 
my get feeling says it will sink in its first voyage

Well I didn't expect anything different from a retard like you.

its because they know they've got no wars to fight, being in the indian army must be a walk in the park, got billions to spend in corruption and the most action you will see is a couple of kids throwing rocks at you in kashmir.

Haha, you just went full-retard Mr.British-Pakistani.

They know China going to build Type001A carrier and they quickly rushed INS vikrant to be build so as to give an impression that IN is modernizing quickly despite many sub components not ready. It may have convinced the fanboy but not professional.

Plans to build the INS Vikrant are much older than any of your 'Varyag clones'
 
I guess Yankees are trying to "cry wolf" to create Panic and ... anticipating India will sign bulk of defence contracts to speed up its' naval preparedness
 
No wonder bells were ringing in Delhi when we acquired 2 Ming class Submarines :rofl:
 
Oh..ouch!! So based on the above, what's the use of this aircraft carrier? Scramble jets to scare away foreign fishermen by loud jets flying low overhead? That is a one great purpose for so many billions wasted!

India needs to contact the US and ask for contractors from the New Port and General Dynamics for like 5 years to help redesign / rebuild this silly thing.

Are you Blind, read the damn thread before commenting


That means your stobar operating experience is same as China since both operate at the same time? The one you decommissioning is only a vertical landing and take off carrier? No arrestor hook and angle deck. There is nothing much to learn all these years. If I am not wrong India still used farming tractor on your carrier :lol:


India is only good in showmanship. They rushed things and make many inoperational warship commission so as to make up the numbers to compete with PLAN and let fanboy have the impression India is on shoulder to shoulder in terms of navy modernization. Look at their INS kollkata. It's Barak 8 is not ready and they quickly rushed their destroyer to operation without those crucial component.

They know China going to build Type001A carrier and they quickly rushed INS vikrant to be build so as to give an impression that IN is modernizing quickly despite many sub components not ready. It may have convinced the fanboy but not professional.

Indian is always abt showmanship and put on a brave front.


Get a real Aircraft carrier before you brag on this thread @Beast the one you have now is just a training ship

Also, stop distorting facts
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/17...ennai_Equipped_With_BrahMos__Barak_8_Missiles

Learn a thing or 2 about how to operate a carrier before ranting here
One of the reasons could be that India is the biggest market for defence sales,India needs new gear and the US among others can provide.




You think we would able to do this without any "Aircraft carrier" Strategy
 
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U.S. Effort to Help India Build Up Navy Hits Snag

Setbacks for New Delhi’s first homemade aircraft carrier slow efforts to face China on high seas


By DANIEL STACEY

Updated Nov. 30, 2016 6:46 a.m. ET

NEW DELHI—When top American naval engineers recently inspected India’s first locally made aircraft carrier they expected to find a near battle-ready ship set to help counter China’s growing sway in the Indian Ocean.

Instead, they discovered the carrier wouldn’t be operational for up to a decade and other shortcomings: no small missile system to defend itself, a limited ability to launch sorties and no defined strategy for how to use the ship in combat. The findings alarmed U.S. officials hoping to enlist India as a bulwark against China, people close to the meeting said.

“China’s navy will be the biggest in the world soon, and they’re definitely eyeing the Indian Ocean with ports planned in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh,” said retired Admiral Arun Prakash, the former commander of India’s navy. “The Indian navy is concerned about this.”

The February carrier inspection, in the port of Kochi, formed part of U.S. plans to share aircraft carrier technology with India. Indian naval officials followed up with a tour of an American shipbuilding yard in Virginia and strategy briefings at the Pentagon in September, the people close to the meetings said.

The U.S. and India are drawing closer politically and militarily. The two have participated in joint naval exercises with Japan. The U.S. has agreed to sell New Delhi everything from attack helicopters to artillery. Washington has approved proposals by Lockheed Martin and Boeing Co. to make advanced jet fighters in India. And in August, the two countries signed a military logistics-sharing accord.

The emerging relationship has reshaped Asia’s geopolitical terrain, riling China, which has issued diplomatic complaints over the joint exercises, and sometimes sidelining Russia, long India’s largest supplier of military hardware.

Both Indian and American officials say they hope cooperation will grow under President-elect Donald Trump, who has signaled a tougher approach toward China. After the U.S. election, the American Ambassador to India said the ties forged with India under PresidentBarack Obama were “irreversible.”

The centerpiece of the military cooperation are the aircraft carriers.

“Of all the U.S.’s efforts to cooperate with India’s military, the aircraft carrier project is the one with the biggest potential payout and could make the biggest difference to the regional balance of power,” said Ashley Tellis of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and a former U.S. adviser in New Delhi.

But U.S. concerns are growing about India’s military strategy. Experts worry New Delhi’s insistence on building complex military gear largely from scratch, a legacy of its period of nonalignment, has led to severe delays in modernizing its carriers, jet fighters and nuclear submarines and limited its ability to fight.

A Indian Defense Ministry spokesman declined to comment beyond saying that its aircraft carriers were “still under progress.” A Navy spokesman declined to comment. Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar recently reiterated a commitment to indigenous manufacturing, citing concerns that foreign supply of arms and ammunition could be cut off in a time of war. “I think self-dependence is very important,” he said.

China, meanwhile, is rapidly expanding its military forces. It launched its first aircraft carrier in 2012 and is building two more. Chinese state-owned companies have invested in strategic ports circling the Indian Ocean in Sri Lanka, Myanmar and Pakistan, that have resupplied its naval vessels. And China is now building its first overseas military outpost in Djibouti.

Chinese officials have rejected assertions that they are pursuing military objectives in the Indian Ocean, saying submarines resupplying in Sri Lanka were heading to the Gulf of Aden on antipiracy missions.

India, for its part, pledged funding last year for a new port in Iran where India’s own ships could potentially resupply for Indian Ocean missions. And it is seeking to match China’s naval force by adding two Indian-built carriers to the Russian one it now operates.

The first homemade Indian carrier, the INS Vikrant, has fallen short of expectations. An Indian state audit, released in July, found serious faults in its design and construction, from gear boxes to jet launching systems and air conditioning units.

The shipyard building the carrier, which has already cost $3 billion, “had no previous experience of warship construction” and is five years behind schedule, the audit said. India’s military sticks by its 2018 deadline.

Other experts said the ship’s hull was built before the navy had decided on some of the weapons systems, likely hampering its eventual performance. India’s homemade Tejas jet fighters, which are slated to fly from the Vikrant alongside squadrons of Russian jets, are also struggling to take off and land with an adequate payload on a simulated flight deck where they are being tested, people familiar with its testing said.

The upshot, these experts say: the carrier’s defensive flaws make it unlikely to able to operate in important theaters like the Persian Gulf or off the eastern coast of Africa, outside of the protective range of India’s land-based air force.

Still, the U.S. Navy plans to step up cooperation, pinning its hopes on India’s second homemade carrier, which promises to be far larger and contain more advanced technology. While carriers are losing their relevancy with the proliferation of cheap antiship missiles and advanced attack submarines, they are still likely to remain at the core of most major navies for some decades.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-effort-to-help-india-build-up-navy-hits-snag-1480501812



It somehow reminds me of a blog written by an US Navy officer exchanged to INS New Delhi during a joint naval excise between two countries. He literally trashed everything about the ship, from equipment, maintenance, training, to personnel's professionalism. It was harsh as hell.
 
Funny looking at the Chinese lecturing the usage of Aircraft carriers to India :lol: How funny can one get? They started using it only after 2014 and suddenly within a few years became experts at it? :lol: That Floating Casino has been officially turned into a training platform. Meaning it wont be used for patrolling.

US standards and our standards are different. They spend about 12B for an AC, and we spend 3B. And we are happy. And most importantly we dont steal anything.
How about all the important subsystem that the AC required,we make,you purchase,it's simple to draw a conclusion,but just as you said our navy is light year behind Indian navy,so don't bother.
1478745839979.jpg
 
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It somehow reminds me of a blog written by an US Navy officer exchanged to INS New Delhi during a joint naval excise between two countries. He literally trashed everything about the ship, from equipment, maintenance, training, to personnel's professionalism. It was hush as hell.

If you're talking about the 'US Navy officers' who wrote that non sense written in 4chan, where he even claimed that our crew wear flip flops onboard ships, he was thrashed by real Indian & US Navy officers.

How about all the important subsystem that the future AC required,we make,you purchase,conclusion is simple,but anyway our navy is light year behind Indian navy,so don't bother.

HAL_Tejas_NP-1_takes-off_from_the_Shore_Based_Test_Facility_at_INS_Hansa%2C_Goa.JPG
 
If you're talking about the 'US Navy officers' who wrote that non sense written in 4chan, where he even claimed that our crew wear flip flops onboard ships, he was thrashed by real Indian & US Navy officers.


The amount of details he disclosed made him seem to be real. Anyway, it is nice to know Indian Navy is not like that. Can you point a direction to the rebuttals? By the way, what is your take on this article, credible?
 
The amount of details he disclosed made him seem to be real. Anyway, it is nice to know Indian Navy is not like that. Can you point a direction to the rebuttals? By the way, what is your take on this article, credible?

He even claims that the IN keeps a group of civilians onboard to work for us & even refer to them as slaves. Seriously, that's the absolute height of bullshit.

He also claims that INS Delhi is an used Russian ship. :lol:
 
If you're talking about the 'US Navy officers' who wrote that non sense written in 4chan, where he even claimed that our crew wear flip flops onboard ships, he was thrashed by real Indian & US Navy officers.



HAL_Tejas_NP-1_takes-off_from_the_Shore_Based_Test_Facility_at_INS_Hansa%2C_Goa.JPG
I think i am talking about everything.:agree:
 

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