Turkish TAI TF-X in line with what PAF wants: PAC Kamra Chairman Air Marshal

[Trango Towers]

What can Pakistan do for TFX project ?


btw India also can do nothing , Indians uses Israeli,French Electronics , Avionics , Radar , etc



2020 or 2021

Pakistan isnt India.
Ur glass is half full

 

[batmannow]

IMO a very problematic post since even understandable by Alan Warnes' enthusiasm for the PAF it completely ignores the political issues:

Any possible Turkish-Pakistani JV would IMO - and especially in mind of the current nor really good Turkish-Western relationship exclude any further involvement form any major Western company, most importantly directly related to the engines.

I cannot imagine that - in mind of the close Sino-Pakistani friendship and relationship any Western government would agree either Rolls Royce or General Electric to sell its latest engine technology to Pakistan.
Consequently either the whole timeline of the TFX collapses or it has to be some sort of a Turkish-Pakistani-Chinese development based eventually on the FC-31/WS-19-combo ... which IMO Turkey will refuse.

As such, the TFX might be indeed exactly what the PAF wants in terms of technology and capabilities, but IMO such a cooperation is the same as the Su-57 aka FGFA is exactly what the IAF want, but given the political and financial background it does not fit.

do u think only rolls Royce or some western companies can make good fighter jet engines ?????
engines can be found from China , or russia hope you know where turkish relations are standing with western powers specially USA ?
and hope u hve seen that with all the cries still turkey is ready to get S 400 from Russia ???
I gss , ur views shows lot of weakness about the emerging geo political and strategical developments in asia ?
and I wish u are not so informed that where turkey is standing and with whom ?
engines r no problems , it's the other aspects like , areo designs / it's dimensions and knowledge of which part been used how and when thats what is important , Russia and China both have proven and capable aero industries it's just to mash the western design and use of tech with a western mind frame , turkey has gaiNed a lot of experience with F16s and it's ready to share that with giants like russia and China which can develop similar parts and machines and other stuff as what's been used in western 4th gen fighter aircrafts , imagine a new fighter jet , simmilar to the F16S but hAving more advanced areo dynamics with stealthiness but using 2 russian or chinese engines instead ???

 

[MastanKhan]

“ I believe that the Paf is back to its age old game of deceiving pakistan---”
PAF deceiving Pakistan?
You’re at it again with your diatribe against PAF. What’s your beef may I ask? Do you have real and genuine issues with PAF or is it a case of early senile dementia? Your unjustified and unwarranted attacks on PAF are nauseating.

Hi,

They are criminals---. They made the pakistanis hate the US regarding sanctions---.

The Paf blamed the US for sanctions---even though it was Paf's doing that they went for sanctioned aircraft---.

Their wel-wishers told them not to go for the F16's because the sanctions are in the happening---but still they did---.

They have sabotaged the integrity of pakistan---.

On the 27th---just to SHOW OFF---they gave away all their technical secrets to the enemy---just for the right to strut and pomp---.

They let the enemies destroys the awacs on the ground multiple times---.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Hi,

They are criminals---. They made the pakistanis hate the US regarding sanctions---.

The Paf blamed the US for sanctions---even though it was Paf's doing that they went for sanctioned aircraft---.

Their wel-wishers told them not to go for the F16's because the sanctions are in the happening---but still they did---.

They have sabotaged the integrity of pakistan---.

On the 27th---just to SHOW OFF---they gave away all their technical secrets to the enemy---just for the right to strut and pomp---.

They let the enemies destroys the awacs on the ground multiple times---.

When did that happened?if you are referring to DG ISPR presser on that day ... you are simply making a factually wrong assertion.

 

[khansaheeb]

if they are showing interest then it means they are serious . few days back former COAS sid that Pakistan developed The design of the jet and in this tweet he says that Pakistan is studying this project for two years

I can see love in the air

 

[Ultima Thule]

On the 27th---just to SHOW OFF---they gave away all their technical secrets to the enemy---just for the right to strut and pomp---.

And what would we do at 27 Feb just stay calm give Pakistan to the enemy @MastanKhan and please tell us what gave away your so called TECHNICAL SECRET, @MastanKhan

Pakistan isnt India.
Ur glass is half full

AND YOUR GLASS IS FULL FULL
WE ARE USING CHINESE TECH ON JF-17, ONLY WE BUILT PARTIALLY AIR FRAME OF JF-17 (NOSECONE/ WINGS/ VERTICAL, HORIZONTAL TAIL SURFACES) @snow lake

 

[cabatli_53]

You know EU countries not sharing critical tech for TFX and for turbofan good luck to you because it is one of the most complex tech on the planet only few country have this capability to develop Jet engine from scratch, even Chinese struggling with their Jet engine development project, probably your engine program will be delayed on multiple time, i think ( lets hope it will not) @MMM-E

It is one of the most difficult tech indeed so There are a few country having ability of producing them and I have tried to tell why it is difficult to develop in above post. Turkish industry have developed special materials and their processing technologies. Turkish engineers have big experiences for production of powerful engines in multi-national and offset programs and Now, They are developing 1500hp and 3000hp turboshaft engines, 3,2 kN turbojet, 550hp turboprop. 30,000hp turbofan engine for TF-X is also under development phase but According to TEI, It takes time ~10+ years so A foreign expertise will be welcomed If any possible. Otherwise, TEI will develop it with own resources under the support of Undersecretariat of Defence Industry.

Besides, Tf-X MMU is being designed with considering the size figures of GE F110 engine and Prototypes will take off with those engines. From this starting point, We can assume that National turbofan engine will have same diameter with F110 engines but lower by-pass ratio to gain supercruise capability. New generation alloys/production methods will make national engines lighter than F110 so power to weight ratio will be more aggresive compared to F110.

 

[Ultima Thule]

It is one of the most difficult tech indeed so There are a few country having ability of producing them and I have tried to tell why it is difficult to develop in above post. Turkish industry have developed special materials and their processing technologies. Turkish engineers have big experiences for production of powerful engines in multi-national and offset programs and Now, They are developing 1500hp and 3000hp turboshaft engines, 3,2 kN turbojet, 550hp turboprop. 30,000hp turbofan engine for TF-X is also under development phase but According to TEI, It takes time ~10+ years so A foreign expertise will be welcomed If any possible. Otherwise, TEI will develop it with own resources under the support of Undersecretariat of Defence Industry.

Besides, Tf-X MMU is being designed with considering the size figures of GE F110 engine and Prototypes will take off with those engines. From this starting point, We can assume that National turbofan engine will have same diameter with F110 engines but lower by-pass ratio to gain supercruise capability. New generation alloys/production methods will make national engines lighter than F110 so power to weight ratio will be more aggresive compared to F110.

Thank you and good luck for indigenous jet engine project sir

 

[cabatli_53]

TEI designed combustion chamber reached %98+ Combustion efficiency in trials. That is a good indication for compressors and fuel injection working efficienctly to mix optimum amount of air/fuel particulars (1/14) in chamber.


Turkish Engineers took a GE engine which had 10 compression stages, modified with TEI designed 9 stages compressor. A GE engine modified by Turks with 9 stages outputted same power and efficiency, with weight savings. This is how we'll develop our jet engines, take existing technology, modify it, improve it, develop new technology.

 

[Deino]

do u think only rolls Royce or some western companies can make good fighter jet engines ?????
engines can be found from China , or russia hope you know where turkish relations are standing with western powers specially USA ?
and hope u hve seen that with all the cries still turkey is ready to get S 400 from Russia ???
I gss , ur views shows lot of weakness about the emerging geo political and strategical developments in asia ?
and I wish u are not so informed that where turkey is standing and with whom ?
engines r no problems , it's the other aspects like , areo designs / it's dimensions and knowledge of which part been used how and when thats what is important , Russia and China both have proven and capable aero industries it's just to mash the western design and use of tech with a western mind frame , turkey has gaiNed a lot of experience with F16s and it's ready to share that with giants like russia and China which can develop similar parts and machines and other stuff as what's been used in western 4th gen fighter aircrafts , imagine a new fighter jet , simmilar to the F16S but hAving more advanced areo dynamics with stealthiness but using 2 russian or chinese engines instead ???

Pardon do contradict again and IMO it is You, who's wrong ... several times.

First of all I'm fully aware of the political background, changes and developments, but IMO it is turkey that currently at the cost of a direct short-term benefit plays a dangerous game. Trying to get benefits from Russia and or China, by bullying the West, getting rid with accepted social positions like free speech, political freedom only for a nationalistic fewer leads IMO only to a lot of trust and stability given away. By this development they only enlarge the gap that already exists.

Second: increasing the depts with the aim to spur economic development at all cost is again only a short-term win ... and the result can be already seen.

And finally, You have IMO a completely wrong perception of the technical side: Engines ARE a problem, they are the core and epitome of aerospace technology and we all know how badly Russia and China lag behind, So there nothing like "Russia and China both have proven and capable aero industries it's just to mash the western design".
Also, do you think General Electric will sell full IP of their most modern engine to a county that is just flirting with Russia and China? Do you really think they would sell their crown jewels?

So in consequence, all these fancy Turkish projects are nothing but what-ifs for the moment with unrealistic timeframes, goals and even more the unsolved question on how to pay for that all.

But again, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Pakhtoon yum]

Ya, no.
I dont see this happening, it's like throwing a coin into a wishing well. You lose the coin and dont get ur wish granted. This seems like smoke to divert attention form an actual contender.

 

[Trango Towers]

Hi,

They are criminals---. They made the pakistanis hate the US regarding sanctions---.

The Paf blamed the US for sanctions---even though it was Paf's doing that they went for sanctioned aircraft---.

Their wel-wishers told them not to go for the F16's because the sanctions are in the happening---but still they did---.

They have sabotaged the integrity of pakistan---.

On the 27th---just to SHOW OFF---they gave away all their technical secrets to the enemy---just for the right to strut and pomp---.

They let the enemies destroys the awacs on the ground multiple times---.

You are a senile old drunken knob.

 

[LKJ86]

First of all I'm fully aware of the political background, changes and developments, but IMO it is turkey that currently at the cost of a direct short-term benefit plays a dangerous game. Trying to get benefits from Russia and or China, by bullying the West, getting rid with accepted social positions like free speech, political freedom only for a nationalistic fewer leads IMO only to a lot of trust and stability given away. By this development they only enlarge the gap that already exists.

You underestimate Turkey's ambition.

And finally, You have IMO a completely wrong perception of the technical side: Engines ARE a problem, they are the core and epitome of aerospace technology and we all know how badly Russia and China lag behind, So there nothing like "Russia and China both have proven and capable aero industries it's just to mash the western design".
Also, do you think General Electric will sell full IP of their most modern engine to a county that is just flirting with Russia and China? Do you really think they would sell their crown jewels?

To civilian jet engines, you are right, and Russia and China do have a long way to go.

But to military jet engines, you also underestimate Russia and China.

 

[Deino]

You underestimate Turkey's ambition.


To civilian jet engines, you are right, and Russia and China do have a long way to go.

But to military jet engines, you also underestimate Russia and China.

Concerning Turkey's ambitions I'm fully aware of their goals both politically and military technology wise, however that does not mean they are realistic, affordable and even more thy come at certain costs: Flirting with Russia and China on the one side in the way they do it today, but still expecting hand-over of the technological crown jewels like fifth generation engine technology from the West is ridiculous.

Concerning to underestimate Russia and China's ability on military engines I agree to be more carefully, but IMO the West is still decades in front. Just look at the F119, which is already a dated design and nothing comparable is available in Russia.

 

[LKJ86]

Just look at the F119, which is already a dated design and nothing comparable is available in Russia.

Only USA, Russia, China, and Japan are developing engines similar to F119.