Turkish Naval Programs

[T-123456]

So what is the issue here

Turkey has the manpower but politics ?

STM is to blame?

Politics is to blame,much talk very slow walk.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

It has been a year since STM drooling over TF2000, but we shouldnt forget all knowledge STM has got, acquired from navy shipyards, when its the fact and STM isnt strong enough to handle a whole design of a navy vessel , Spain wouldnt be joining.
It could be counted as repost since Navantia has already expressed the company's interest in the project over a year ago, and STM has also spoken in the matter yet tried to impress the Secretariat with a silly, non functional and exactly plagiarized frigate design. If BMC gets the Altay tank, we can be assured STM and Sedef shipyard will get the TF2000 and our so called national air warfare frigate will be design of Navantia, and we will let our shining engineers to be idle, not working as they are supposed to be and loose the ability of the design progress that we have gained in a painful 10 years for Milgem.

And the future of all our "shining engineers" are dependent on this single project?

 

[Dai Toruko]

And the future of all our "shining engineers" are dependent on this single project?

Why do you think so traitorous?

 

[KediKesenFare3]

Why do you think so traitorous?

Just answer my question instead of wasting my time.

 

[Dai Toruko]

Just answer my question instead of wasting my time.

I dont care about your time. If you can do something yourself, then you dont need others.
You must have more confidence in Turkish engineers and overcome your inferiority complexes.

 

[Deliorman]

If those engineers can't develop their skills and get a proper job in Turkey then their future will lead them to the US, UK, Canada, Australia, Germany... countries which thousands of educated and wealthy Turks choose as their new home anyway.
For people with good education and special skills it is always much easier to get a visa and a citizenship in the West- with the proper job and much better salary too.

 

[Oublious]

It has been a year since STM drooling over TF2000, but we shouldnt forget all knowledge STM has got, acquired from navy shipyards, when its the fact and STM isnt strong enough to handle a whole design of a navy vessel , Spain wouldnt be joining.
It could be counted as repost since Navantia has already expressed the company's interest in the project over a year ago, and STM has also spoken in the matter yet tried to impress the Secretariat with a silly, non functional and exactly plagiarized frigate design. If BMC gets the Altay tank, we can be assured STM and Sedef shipyard will get the TF2000 and our so called national air warfare frigate will be design of Navantia, and we will let our shining engineers to be idle, not working as they are supposed to be and loose the ability of the design progress that we have gained in a painful 10 years for Milgem.

Ther is one question, the English offered ther design but been refused. Why would we go for Spanish?

 

[T-123456]

Why do you think so traitorous?

Why is he thinking traitorous,whats wrong with his question?
This project is ongoing for so many years,the talk was indigenous and now they decide to get help which shows that we cant do it alone.
So,why the show off for all these years when you cant do it?

 

[Dai Toruko]

Why is he thinking traitorous,whats wrong with his question?
This project is ongoing for so many years,the talk was indigenous and now they decide to get help which shows that we cant do it alone.
So,why the show off for all these years when you cant do it?

Where do we need help? For a project that is already finished.
Dirty games are played with regard to TF-2000.

 

[T-123456]

Where do we need help? For a project that is already finished.
Dirty games are played with regard to TF-2000.

Dont come with conspiracy theories,if the project was finished,we wouldnt have these conversations.
Lets be realistic and see things for what they are.
Take a look at @isoo 's post on page 199 of this thread,as one of the few,he knows what he is talking about.

 

[Dai Toruko]

Dont come with conspiracy theories,if the project was finished,we wouldnt have these conversations.
Lets be realistic and see things for what they are.
Take a look at @isoo 's post on page 199 of this thread,as one of the few,he knows what he is talking about.

Call it conspiracy theory or whatever you want.
Just remember my words. When the ship is built without help from Spain.

 

[what]

And the future of all our "shining engineers" are dependent on this single project?

Its a missed oppurtunity.

 

[Mr.Department]

I am optimistic. Turkish Navy Yards are full time working on Meko Track II ( Radars, VLS and CMS), submarine and Perry modernization, beside building new platforms (subs and corvettes) They have limited capacity, so it is better to transfer knowledge to private yards who can use national technology with foreign experience and innovation.
Otherwise we won't be able to realize our time schedule for 2023-2030. Simple question ?
Whom should we prefer ? German or Spanish partners ?

"Turkish efforts to update their inventory of “short hull” Perrys have reportedly done well in the G-class."
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...ould-the-us-navys-retired-frigates-make-21249

 

[Otonom Piyade]

It has been a year since STM drooling over TF2000, but we shouldnt forget all knowledge STM has got, acquired from navy shipyards, when its the fact and STM isnt strong enough to handle a whole design of a navy vessel , Spain wouldnt be joining.
It could be counted as repost since Navantia has already expressed the company's interest in the project over a year ago, and STM has also spoken in the matter yet tried to impress the Secretariat with a silly, non functional and exactly plagiarized frigate design. If BMC gets the Altay tank, we can be assured STM and Sedef shipyard will get the TF2000 and our so called national air warfare frigate will be design of Navantia, and we will let our shining engineers to be idle, not working as they are supposed to be and loose the ability of the design progress that we have gained in a painful 10 years for Milgem.

There's is no need to be a negative Nancy on the TF-2000 project or doubt STM's capacity. We are financing so many projects and investing so much money on R&D, i think our limited budget is what stalls these projects. Our private or government ship yards have the necessary know-how to build a ship in size of TF-2000, they're just waiting for the government to give them the go to begin working on this project.

 

[ANMDT]

And the future of all our "shining engineers" are dependent on this single project?

Yes it depends on this,
Just because LHD project handed over to Sedef with tricky games that i have told before in the earlier pages regarding to deck configuration, a few shipyards has shut their R&D departments down, those engineers have been to some companies that is collaborating with foreign companies and rather than developing they began to process the plans gained from abroad.
In LHD project, one of the best ship design company is only handling the work that technicians could handle, which engineers are simply began to do the work of technician so that they wouldnt be fired.
TF2000 is an eligible project where R&D is needed continuously, whereas in LHD project we are only processing the drawing and construction plan along with engineers from navantia over an online access, which we can not hold the whole design in our databese, and no R&D in the Turkish side.
While this is the case, how to you believe those engineers will keep shining if TF2000 has gone ? Give a project name in large scale as TF2000.

There's is no need to be a negative Nancy on the TF-2000 project or doubt STM's capacity. We are financing so many projects and investing so much money on R&D, i think our limited budget is what stalls these projects. Our private or government ship yards have the necessary know-how to build a ship in size of TF-2000, they're just waiting for the government to give them the go to begin working on this project.

No, our private companies can not even build milgem, they are just lazy ones laying around and looking for a quick hit without an effort (like TCG Anadolu) where they dont risk anything but have a constant support. Support class and combatants are two most separate classes, TCG Dost is somehow the nearest of the combatants and the shipyard was quite disappointed in the end. We can not include the boat size ships in here.
There are no budget problems either, the finance of the project is running well, its still the undecided parts of the project due to changing admirals, those are lagging the project. Each people demands new one feature. Yet in the project keeps running from the beginning also waiting the subsystems to keep the design moving on ( missiles, radar and so on)

So what is the issue here

Turkey has the manpower but politics ?

STM is to blame?

STM is to be blamed, trying to make profit with the connections and weakening the prestige of navy offices for the Secretariat

Call it conspiracy theory or whatever you want.
Just remember my words. When the ship is built without help from Spain.

There is no conspiracy but once LHD construction has begun both Sedef and Navantia has made speeches about willingness to join in TF2000, while recently STM has spoken so, to take place in frigate designs even showing a mockup ( seriously. Even the mockup was at low quality with bad surface finishing ) )

I dont care about your time. If you can do something yourself, then you dont need others.
You must have more confidence in Turkish engineers and overcome your inferiority complexes.

If engineers begin to be idle and begin to do the work equals to the drawing technician, then they will loose their ability. Their departments will shut down and they either will fly to finance department or procedurement department.
There is no inferiority complex by mentioning about a fact "işleyen demir pas tutmaz" a rolling stones gather no moss, while in the end our engineers wont shine as now if we dont give opportunities to then for those eligible projects.

So what is the issue here

Turkey has the manpower but politics ?

STM is to blame?

Also the politics,that is slowing the project down and somehow letting STM and other ones to bring rumours around about how slow the navy shipyards are ( we will see who is faster when one of the private shipyards has completed the I class without help of the navy, if they can ever complete without a support)